| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
While I dont have all the fact and the posturing by the various self serving groups is beyond disgusting.... Zimmerman should not have confronted Martin, but should have followed him and reported his movements, to law enforcement 2 mistakes were made here. 1. Zimmerman confronted the young man 2. Martin attacked him provoked or other wise IIRC Did not Zimmerman shoot martin in the back ? If so how is that self defense? | ||
| Reindog |
Frustrated senator Olympia Snow give Obama an F. One can't underscore enough how big this admission by Senator Snowe is. Great leaders, like Reagan, knew how important it is to negotiate and engage with one's opponents. Reagan and O'Neill couldn't have been further apart politically, yet they found accommodation in one another. Obama has failed as an executive and a leader by trying to ram it to the Republicans when Congress was solidly Democratic and then walled himself away since the 2010 election. Some of you just don't have enough world and business experience to know how critical this is. Obama is the Chief Executive. It is his responsibility to reach out. Period. If not, he should seek employment elsewhere or be removed by the Board (the Voters). I hope some of you sycophants can begin to understand this. You know who you are. Your vote is critical. Let's put a real CEO into the White House. | ||
| Sifo |
2 mistakes were made here. 1. Zimmerman confronted the young man 2. Martin attacked him provoked or other wise Agree with both of the above. IIRC Did not Zimmerman shoot martin in the back ? If so how is that self defense? Haven't seen that. I've seen it reported that he was shot in the chest, and I've seen it reported that he was shot in the head. I wouldn't be surprised to see a report of him being shot in the back. If true it takes a lot away from the self defense claim. If false, it's just more of the crap being thrown around irresponsibly in the media. This is a verifiable fact that will eventually be made public from official sources. | ||
| Sifo |
Looks like they are currently going with Martin being shot in the chest. | ||
| Oldog |
Interesting post RD, the true servants are going to get tired of dealing with the crap and obstructions, leaving the dregs to their work (robbing us) as they wash their hands of the mess, and deal with things they can fix... watch C-Span there are REAL IDIOTS in washington.. (Message edited by oldog on March 27, 2012) | ||
| Cowboy |
two rules broken subject to close.not having a through down gun. | ||
| Oldog |
Interesting news article I Note Jackson and Sharpton are making threats T.Martin Attacked Zimmerman according to witnesses, and the police say the accounts match. This will probably play out in the courts. still 2 wrongs, The young man paid for his hatred and stupidity with his life. Zimmerman may spend years in prison for his, I would have no trouble with seeing him getting time, had he not followed Martin this would have been avoided or been clear cut Self defense... The parents anger and pain is being used by the self serving self appointed biggots in the comunity to push their agenda of hate and biggotry... SAD....} I also read some where that the mother / step mother trademarked the sons name,( huh bet there will be a docudrama ) Zimmerman has lost the civil case even if he wins the criminal one. (Message edited by oldog on March 27, 2012) | ||
| Darth_villar |
Following Martin may have been a very stupid thing to do. But *if* the information is accurately portrayed, you deserve to spend as much time in prison as him. Self defense is self defense, and no questionably intelligent behavior prior to that changes anything. I would have a big problem with him getting jail time for self defense. | ||
| Blake |
Is speaking to someone now provocation for receiving a beating? According to the law it isn't. It's called assault and battery. I sure hope this is a valuable lesson on the bias of the media.
Some insight into the character of the victim... http://www.miamiherald.com/2012/03/26/v-fullstory/ 2714778/thousands-expected-at-trayvon.html | ||
| Blake |
>>> Zimmerman may spend years in prison for this. I would have no trouble with seeing him getting time. Had he not followed Martin, this would have been avoided or been clear cut Self defense... What crime would you charge Zimmerman? If his account and what the eye-witness and police say is true, then what crime would you charge Zimmerman with? A man should be imprisoned for patrolling his neighborhood and being violently attacked? Had he been an on-duty law enforcement officer, would you think differently? Given the evidence and testimony and police report, I don't follow the thinking that Zimmerman committed any crime. A man cannot approach another man and expect civil behavior? We must avoid confronting other people at all costs??? Don't let the liberal media cloud your judgement. They are very adept at selling their preferred take on such issues. Remember the Duke lacrosse incident? | ||
| Blake |
>>> Following Martin may have been a very stupid thing to do. In the context of this incident, would someone please explain that thinking. I don't get it. At all. | ||
| Drkside79 |
So it seems the mother is actively seeking to trademark the sons name ect. I suppose its better she make money off it than some tycoon but still disgusting IMO. Also as I have no factual knowledge on the case i offer no opinion on guilt. However it is disappointing that this has happened. | ||
| Bandm |
If Trayvon was staying "In the community" with his father,why was he a John Doe for 3 days...daddy didn't miss him? With all the police and lights daddy didn't bother to look for his 17 yr old son?? http://www.examiner.com/unsolved-cases-in-national /trayvon-martin-morgue-3-days-as-john-doe-after-mo m-reported-him-missing | ||
| Sifo |
>>> Following Martin may have been a very stupid thing to do. In the context of this incident, would someone please explain that thinking. I don't get it. At all. He did go against the advice of the police when they told him "you don't need to do that". It was good advice. It wasn't a command, or any sort of legal requirement. It's probably not the best move to ever follow any sort of suspicious person. There's no law being broken by doing so though. There's also no law that a person has to always make the best possible decisions. None of this should make you have to give up your right to defend yourself if you are physically attacked. As soon as someone makes the case that his poor decision lead to him being attacked you are 1) Blaming the victim. and 2) Opening the door to the simple act of leaving your house exposes you to risks, therefore you will never have the right to defend yourself. Scary logic to follow! | ||
| Oldog |
Zimmerman may spend years in prison for this. I would have no trouble with seeing him getting time. Had he not followed Martin, this would have been avoided or been clear cut Self defense When you carry a gun you must be thinking ahead, was Zimmerman trapped where he had to stand his ground? He indicated that Martin was acting strangely, good reason NOT to confront,poor Very poor judgement, >> What would you charge Zimmerman with? << perhaps manslaughter Q what did zimmerman say to martin? did he warn him? Personal experience: I stopped at a red light here in wilmington A young man behind me was "in a hurry" and agitated. I did not turn fast enough to suit him he followed me into the stores parking lot. He then confronted me and started making threats ( road rage today ) as he approached I warned him I was armed and was prepaired to draw and fire, ( I was ) I asked him "If you are late all ready arguing with me is making you later, I have a 357 under the seat and If I get it out I am going to use it", "You decide", he stopped and thought for a second and left. I would have been charged with murder If I had shot him, it does not matter that in a hand to hand fight that I was no match for him, or that I was protecting my family. perhaps I could have gotten help or run from him.... I am not unsympathetic to zimmerman, BUT he should not have followed martin, more damming that he was told not to/ once martin started pummling him murder was not a just charge, but zimmerman was in the wrong too. as it is at best Zimmerman is looking at a civil suit, at worst a criminal conviction for manslaughter, his( Zimmerman ) being beaten by martin had martin not been shot, it would not have made the news even if he ( Zimmerman) died, the agitators take these rare instances and raise a "stink" I want to know if martin was on drugs at the time, IF thats the case then I can see that zimmerman stands a much better chance of being cleared, In fair answer to your question Blake: If you are in fear for your life, AND you can not escape safely, or are trapped then you may use deadly force to protect your self, there is some question in my mind as to provocation, had there been none then I will see it differently, the two interacted, and as before poor judgement.. All I see now is tragedy, arrogance and greed | ||
| Kenm123t |
The following of Martin Issue will probably go away since Zimmerman was in a Gated Community and as such was on Limited Common area In real english HIS YARD Most all POAs HOAs are gated and posted no trespassing. So Zimmerman was fully with in his rights to ask who are you visiting etc entrance in to POA s HOAs and or Condo properties are limited to contractors during permitted work time with valid ID PHOTO FOR YOU VOTERS. Or invited guests and they have to be cleared with Gate guard in writing or by contact with an owner by phone. Was Martin a guest on the Property ? If not he was guilty of treaspassing No matter what was said once he started laying hands on Zimmerman had the right to defend himself. This was picked as reason to get out the Obama vote. Do you see any thing about the two gangbangers that followed another kid home doused him with Gas set him on fire and said this what you get Whitey? Obama is clutching at any thing to get a vote he knows the Working class whites are done with him so he has to stir the pot like the Fluke case. In this case forensics will tell the tale Blood spray pattern and gun powder residue will outline the shooters postions. From the preliminary witness report I suspect contact wound to the chest. The New Black panthers have a bounty out on Zimmerman If he is injured or Killed will HOLDER Obama persue hate crimes charges and arrest the Panthers on conspiricy to commit murder? Looks like a Replay of 68 Rahm said dont let a crisis go to waste. Riots etc all over a reason to Keep Obama for ONLY HE can save the country. Trouble is brewing | ||
| Sifo |
When you carry a gun you must be thinking ahead, was Zimmerman trapped where he had to stand his ground? Yes he was trapped. Martin was on top of him slamming his skull against the sidewalk. The only way I can see this as not being self defense is if Zimmerman assaulted Martin and started a fight that got beyond his control. I've seen no evidence of that being the case though. I would have been charged with murder If I had shot him, it does not matter that in a hand to hand fight that I was no match for him, or that I was protecting my family. Not likely under the FL law. The law in your state likely varies however. BUT he should not have followed martin, more damming that he was told not to He was told it was "unnecessary". That is different from being told not to. He wasn't doing anything illegal, or anything that should have sparked violence, at least nothing that we know of. once martin started pummling him murder was not a just charge, but zimmerman was in the wrong too. I would be cautious about "blaming the victim" here. Yes Zimmerman was a victim. the agitators take these rare instances and raise a "stink" No doubt about that! there is some question in my mind as to provocation, had there been none then I will see it differently, the two interacted, and as before poor judgement.. I have doubts in my mind to. That is emotion and conjecture however. We do well to stick to facts that are verifiable, or at least witness testimony. | ||
| Oldog |
None of this should make you have to give up your right to defend yourself if you are physically attacked. Before taking a human life under any circumstance you may want to have a clear understanding of the states laws and criterion allowing use of deadly force. The media's Bias or the views of our members are not withstanding. The facts of any "Self defense" case will be evaluated by law, right or wrong or what "we" think will not matter I suspect that Zimmerman will likely be cleared of any charges, and will face Civil charges from next of kin.. IMO He screwed up, and may be subject to punishment, He interacted with Martin, he is not a police officer, had he not done so the confrontation may not have happened. and the shooting may not have happened. Had Martin just jumped on him at random then it would be different and I would think that he should go free, BTW Martin is no martyr } | ||
| Oldog |
Sifo I believe that we agree on most points I simply believe that Zimmerman "Got himself into trouble" just serious trouble, he was beaten i can agree on that level he was a Victim, BUT had he stayed in his SUV this would not have happened. so its self inflicted in my view..... thats my take | ||
| Cowboy |
While every one is trying to stick it to Zimmerman, I want to know what is being done about the two BLACKS that set the 13 yr. on fire in Kansas. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo I believe that we agree on most points I think we are. Before taking a human life under any circumstance you may want to have a clear understanding of the states laws and criterion allowing use of deadly force. No doubt. On this point I think Zimmerman is in the clear in FL. In my state probably not. | ||
| Oldog |
I wonder what will happen if the Black panthers get to Zimmerman Cowboy was that black on black violence? | ||
| Cowboy |
Att old dog no the 13 yr. old was WHITE. Zimmerman now has a pass on killing the panthers as they have posted a BOUNTY on him. I would have no peoblem in killing them were I him. | ||
| Blake |
>>> had he stayed in his SUV this would not have happened. so its self inflicted in my view..... I can't see that at all. How in any possible legal view could his beating be viewed as "self-inflicted"? That view seems to demand that we all become cowards having to avoid any peaceful confrontation with a stranger. No? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Can someone be beaten to death? If you are on top beating someone who is calling for help and poses no threat to you at that point, do you have an obligation to stop? If you are being beaten by someone whom you are not fighting back against and they refuse to stop, at what point in time does deadly force become "authorized"? Is beating someone who poses no threat to you other than following constitute asymmetrical use of force? | ||
| Aesquire |
Don't know about your state. In NY I can call you a M**&&^&*er or even a N87y949, and you can try and get a cop to arrest me, and try to get the DA to charge me, with a "hate crime" if I invoked a word currently considered "racial" or "Sexist". But you can't beat me up. That's battery. If I tell you I'm going to kill you, that's assault. You will have to defend your decision to beat, shoot, or otherwise harm me, but I MAY have given you reason to fear for your life. If I was a 5 year old girl..... you'll have a hard time convincing a grand jury & the DA you had reason to use the shotgun. OTOH. We've had a 5 year old girl kill a 5 year old girl by punching her. The tearful words of a friend on the radio "it's was all about a boy", got big coverage locally, don't know about your area. People die all the time from battery. Fists. Pick up a piece of lumber, and the odds of killing someone go way up. Ever watch CSI? ( the usual "girl" murder locally is jr. High and High school girls using steak knives on each other over a "boy". There seems to be 1 or 2 a year in Rochester. I could be wrong on that statistic, but the MO is fairly common, here. That's sad. ) I don't know what happened in this case. It sucks to be the parent of a dead child. I'm not sure what the law is on the New Black Panther Party's actions. I'm pretty sure they believe they can get away with anything, since E. Holder has refused to prosecute them. All I KNOW for sure is that evil men are exploiting the situation for power. Do NOT support that evil. Do not repeat rumors, and please do Not Vote for the people exploiting this. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Do NOT support that evil. Do not repeat rumors, and please do Not Vote for the people exploiting this. Democrats exploit racism and death for political gain. >>> All I KNOW for sure is that evil men are exploiting the situation for power. Too obvious to many. Too many are blind to it. Our country is @#$ked. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://freebeacon.com/turner-to-obama-what-flexibi lity/ It "seems" that we "have a deal" with the Russians. I note that they have a considerable record keeping deals. They don't. Some people know that. Others either don't or have an agenda that, somehow, is tied with more power for those who want to use ballistic missiles with nuclear warheads as tools to intimidate, and oppress. http://www.reagan.utexas.edu/archives/speeches/198 2/61782a.htm | ||
| Cowboy |
Did any one watch morning news---The Prez has injected him self iha at the start now we have a group of people calling for a dead or alive bounty on Zimmerman where is the prez now sorry to say the Prez. is one racist bastard. wake up America we have a election coming soon it is time for ho go. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
somewhere back in december I remember stating that they would forment a little racial tension and have it escalate to a bit of violence - hello Fire Box; just in time. A few riots by summer ?!? yep - I lay good odds to it. |
