| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
Well, the trouble with our liberal friends is not that they are ignorant, but that they know so much that isn’t so. RR | ||
| Gregtonn |
"...are you smart enough to manage your own SS account? I am not..." Based on your postings here you have made that abundantly clear. G | ||
| Kenm123t |
Jimi is a classic case of Envy, Fear and realization of his own incompetence. Quote "I am not smart enough to manage my own SS account". Too Stupid to learn how ???Do not understand the system so it must be bad. Guys like Ft can teach you but nope just bad mouth the system that has freed more from poverty than any other! You begrudge the work Edward Jones does for your family. Why ? afraid they work like you did My life and country do not and will not live down to your fears and incompetence. You remind me of my Terminated Union employees stupid and proud of it! Think on this old Norse saying Cowards never started and weaklings died along the way. Another well known saying is a Coward dies a thousand deaths a brave man but one. If you want serfdom move to Europe well for a little while they are near collapse | ||
| Buellinmke |
After seeing how many people voted for George W. Bush and then Barack Obama, then I would have to say yes, the majority of Americans are idiot-level stupid and could not ever manage a retirement account. We need to be teaching our children mathematics and science - not this No Child Left Behind or creationism-fantasy-magic-sky monster fairy tale crap. Otherwise, we just doom ourselves to more and more stupid, fat, lazy Americans. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
I'd like to throw all the global warming and my two daddies curriculum out while we are at it. I'd like to substitute economics and civics (Constitutional based please). My daughter came home with questions for her government test. Granted, she's in third grade. The very first statement: "Our form of government is a ______________." Answer: DEMOCRACY No wonder our citizens are fat and lazy.  | ||
| Moxnix |
Jimidan, you ARE smart enough to manage your own investments. It's a learning process. For years my wife went deaf whenever I tried to tell her what was going on, finally a few years ago I sent her down to talk to a person at a bank that handles some of our investments. She came home understanding everything. The trick is to decide how to invest. With rates of return so dismal in most investment venues, one has to pick and choose, and keep the costs as low as possible. | ||
| Blake |
Another Joe-Bomb... >>> We need to be teaching our children mathematics and science Cool up to this point. >>> - not this ... creationism-fantasy-magic-sky monster fairy tale crap. What school is teaching that Joe? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Can I send my kids to THAT school? | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Lots of 08 bama voters believed in fairy tale magic fantasy when they helped elect someone marginally vetted by a few news sources with enough experience to vote present on important issues. I wonder how many black churches in chicago steered the flock to get out and vote? I smell racism hidden by religion hate! | ||
| Jimidan |
jimi:"I am not and I dare say the vast majority of Americans don't have a clue on how to play the stock market, investments and make a profit." FB response: "Simply untrue. So the vast majority of Americans aren't smart enough to look after their own money but they are smart enough to elect people who are?" Jimi: The American people do not elect the expert Trustees and investment managers of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. These guys are government employees who are well insulated from the political fray. And yes, the vast majority of folks are lost when it comes to financial investments that they will have to depend totally on during their retirement. You may or may not be able to, we'd have to take a look at your personal portfolio to make that determination...but that is irrelevant. We are talking about the average American. The SS does not charge fees and commissions that are taken right off of the top whether they make money for you or NOT. Your analogy is based on a false premise that "If your income today was $32,000 (income of the 50% percentile) and it grew by 3% per year (to keep up with inflation, most peoples grows at a faster rate than this), your income in 50 years of working would be $140,000." Fact is that middle class Americans' wages haven't increased at the magic 3% a year for some time now...like 30 freaking years. http://money.cnn.com/2011/09/21/news/economy/middl e_class_income/index.htm "It's official. The first decade of the 21st century will go down in the history books as a step back for the American middle class. Last week, the government made gloomy headlines when it released the latest census report showing the poverty rate rose to a 17-year high. A whopping 46.2 million people (or 15.1% of the U.S. population) live in poverty and 49.9 million live without health insurance. But the data also gave the first glimpse of what happened to middle-class incomes in the first decade of the millennium. While the earnings of middle-income Americans have barely budged since the mid 1970s, the new data showed that from 2000 to 2010, they actually regressed. For American households in the middle of the pay scale, income fell to $49,445 last year, when adjusted for inflation, a level not seen since 1996. And over the 10-year period, their income is down 7%. "Economists talk about the lost decade in Japan. Well, with these 2010 data, we can confirm the lost decade for the American middle class," said Jared Bernstein, senior fellow at the Center on Budget and Policy Priorities." | ||
| Jimidan |
kenm123: Jimi is a classic case of Envy, Fear and realization of his own incompetence. Quote "I am not smart enough to manage my own SS account". Too Stupid to learn how ???Do not understand the system so it must be bad. Guys like Ft can teach you but nope just bad mouth the system that has freed more from poverty than any other! You begrudge the work Edward Jones does for your family. Why ? afraid they work like you did My life and country do not and will not live down to your fears and incompetence. You remind me of my Terminated Union employees stupid and proud of it! Think on this old Norse saying Cowards never started and weaklings died along the way. Another well known saying is a Coward dies a thousand deaths a brave man but one. If you want serfdom move to Europe well for a little while they are near collapse." I know the basics of investing as I have a small diversified investment portfolio that I "manage", but I am not trusting that to carry me through retirement. Shucks dude, I took economics in my undergrad and grad coursework, but that doesn't make me a financial advisor. I would be stupid not to realize that. But that is irrelevant to this topic. I am not the typical average American either, who has trouble with managing their checking and savings accounts. My retirement system manages my retirement account that provides the bulk of my income, and it has experts on staff that make real money even during dire financial conditions. Like I said, I am not begrudging the work Edward Jones does on managing my father-in-law's account...I simple was saying that they don't work free, and for middle class folks who are dependent on their meager savings, every cent counts. Social Security has insulated old folks from poverty in this country for a long time...and abolishing it may be "brave" but very foolish. Everybody only lives and dies one time, brave of foolish. The only difference is the quality of their lives. | ||
| Jimidan |
""...are you smart enough to manage your own SS account? I am not..." Based on your postings here you have made that abundantly clear. G" And your abundant one line quips have really distinguished yourself, huh? Blah, blah, wolf, wolf. Is that the best ye' got? | ||
| Jimidan |
blake: "Another Joe-Bomb... >>> We need to be teaching our children mathematics and science Cool up to this point. >>> - not this ... creationism-fantasy-magic-sky monster fairy tale crap. What school is teaching that Joe?" The Christian high school that my grandson is going to for one. He has one hour of it spooned to him a day.  | ||
| Jimidan |
Johnnymc: "I wonder how many black churches in chicago steered the flock to get out and vote? I smell racism hidden by religion hate! I smell it too in your post, there johnny, but it was America's other white meat that put him over the top. "Barack Obama, the nation’s first African-American president, won the largest share of white support of any Democrat in a two-man race since 1976 amid a backdrop of economic anxiety unseen in at least a quarter-century, according to exit polls by The Associated Press and the major television networks." I guess that you will just have to get out the Bar-B-Que sauce, because they are going to do it again in 2012.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The American people do not elect the expert Trustees and investment managers of the Social Security and Medicare trust funds. There is your first mistake. There is no Social Security and Medicare trust fund. There are no investment managers. There is no investment. There is no pool of money. Never has been. The idiots in Congress are these "well insulated" folks you describe. Your analogy is based on a false premise that "If your income today was $32,000 (income of the 50% percentile) and it grew by 3% per year (to keep up with inflation, most peoples grows at a faster rate than this), your income in 50 years of working would be $140,000." You no read good. Just below the graph, there is a little phrase: adjusted for inflation. Average inflation for the period in question is about 3%. Average inflation data The taxes are based upon nominal income not inflation adjusted. My calculations had ONLY the inflation adjustment built into them. Add to that the 10% growth in wages from your graph and the growth rate for my calculations are above the claimed 3%. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The Christian high school that my grandson is going to for one. He has one hour of it spooned to him a day. Wow. They force kids into Christian schools in your grandson's state? That's odd. | ||
| Jimidan |
Moxnix: "Jimidan, you ARE smart enough to manage your own investments. It's a learning process. For years my wife went deaf whenever I tried to tell her what was going on, finally a few years ago I sent her down to talk to a person at a bank that handles some of our investments. She came home understanding everything. The trick is to decide how to invest. With rates of return so dismal in most investment venues, one has to pick and choose, and keep the costs as low as possible." You are right, I could do it, but when you are talking managing a million dollars or more, an investment mistake of only 2-3% could cost me big time. In this volatile market, the pros have a rough time trying to invest...our EJ guy lost us $9,000 in one transaction in a mistake he made and he has all the tools. | ||
| Sifo |
I am not and I dare say the vast majority of Americans don't have a clue on how to play the stock market, investments and make a profit. Jimidan, Why the racist comment? It's well known that a higher percentage of blacks fail to invest well than whites. It's a well documented fact. Stop being a racist!  Seriously though... Your view of how America works is pretty bad. It was suggested that you read The Federalist Papers to help with that. May I also suggest Democracy in America by Alexix de Tocqueville. He toured America after the French revolution and documented what he saw and how things worked in this country. It's a much easier read than The Federalist Papers, and also a more entertaining read. It does a great job of making the ideas of the founders real as they were actually applied in early US history. I'm guessing you will especially appreciate the second part of his book when he shifts gears and starts trying to justify why France should go back to being an aristocracy. He argues for the blissful existence of the peasants not having to bother with the higher problems in life such as decisions on government spending, defense of the nation, being educated, etc. Of course de Tocqueville was part of the aristocracy, not the peasant class. You will however recognize his use of dishonest arguments all through this half of the book. The parallels to the modern world are quite apparent. Sorry about your parents with alzheimer's. That's a tough disease. My wife's grandmother died from it and her father is now suffering from it. If you were interested in protecting their funds instead of paying $12K per month, you could take them in. It is a disease that family can deal with quite well, especially since you are retired and wouldn't have to leave them unattended for extended periods daily. As for folks not being smart enough to invest well, as it was pointed out by someone else, that's simply a matter of education, formal or through self motivated. It's a shame, but not a coincidence that the government run school system totally ignores this topic. Of course teaching people to do for themselves what government does for you poorly isn't exactly in their best interest, is it. The good news is that the private sector does step up to the plate to fill that void very well. It does require you to take some initiative though to seek out the necessary resources. Good thing for me that I've invested in my best interests. It's a far better ROI than SS could ever promise to be. The realities of SS are looking to be much worse than promised. Of course I've always figured that if I see anything from SS, it's just icing on the cake for me. The bottom line is that politicians (and therefore the government) are more concerned with their own security than the people's. When the people give their well being to the government, they WILL be disappointed. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You are right, I could do it, but when you are talking managing a million dollars or more, an investment mistake of only 2-3% could cost me big time. In this volatile market, the pros have a rough time trying to invest...our EJ guy lost us $9,000 in one transaction in a mistake he made and he has all the tools. Ummm....Edward Jones isn't where I would ever place any of my money, btw. This coming from someone in the industry. I wouldn't manage my own money either. Not because I can't but because the time it would require for me to do it myself is time that I could be out making more. The .50%-1% wrap fee charged by most advisors is well worth the time. The key is that I would like to have the choice as to WHO is managing my money. I don't trust the folks in Washington to do anything good with what I send them. I would have greater certainty if I just buried it in a coffee can in the back yard. | ||
| Sifo |
Social Security has insulated old folks from poverty in this country for a long time...and abolishing it may be "brave" but very foolish. And who has talked of abolishing it. Pretty much nobody. Privatizing it to allow for limited safe investments, including treasury bonds if you are so inclined has been proposed though. If only people would do the math and realize how much better off they would be under that sort of system. | ||
| Jimidan |
Sifo: "And who has talked of abolishing it. Pretty much nobody. Privatizing it..." IS abolishing it. There it fixed it for ya'! | ||
| Jimidan |
Watch this SC ad for "Herman Cain": http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3UOGKO7tM343 | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Back to the topic, we saw last night Mitt feels guilty for being successful perhaps in part because he used the tax system for the greatest gain. Newt wont apologize for success and will take the president to task more so than any other candidate. Paul still has the best message but needs to work on delivery. Santorum is great on manufacturing but weak on seperating religion from government. At least hes not ashamed to be a white Christian male. All 4 men will be scrutinized by the media at a ratio of 10 to nothing versus the messiah. Paul has the least baggage. Mitt is the least likely to use every tool available at his disposal in debates against 0 because like mccain he feels guilt. He is the weakest link. | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo: "And who has talked of abolishing it. Pretty much nobody. Privatizing it..." IS abolishing it. There it fixed it for ya'! Not at all. It was still going to be a mandatory government administrated program. Why don't you address any questions posed to you? | ||
| Jimidan |
FB: "Your analogy is based on a false premise that "If your income today was $32,000 (income of the 50% percentile) and it grew by 3% per year (to keep up with inflation, most peoples grows at a faster rate than this), your income in 50 years of working would be $140,000." You no read good. Just below the graph, there is a little phrase: adjusted for inflation. Average inflation for the period in question is about 3%." I read better than you think...it may be "adjusted for inflation", but it is not adjusted for anything else, like the severe recession/near Great Depression 2.0 that effect earnings of this kind much more than inflation. With this last recession I lost almost 50% of my mutual funds on paper, because I did not need to live off of them so I could leave them alone to gradually build back in more positive times. Under your scenario, if I had actually been living off of them, I would have been in a world of hurt...just like folks who are a little older than me would be without Social Security. (Message edited by Jimidan on January 21, 2012) | ||
| Jimidan |
Sifo: "Sorry about your parents with alzheimer's. That's a tough disease. My wife's grandmother died from it and her father is now suffering from it. If you were interested in protecting their funds instead of paying $12K per month, you could take them in. It is a disease that family can deal with quite well, especially since you are retired and wouldn't have to leave them unattended for extended periods daily." I am sorry, I didn't mean that Edward Jones was charging us $12K per month to manage my in-laws money, but rather that it was costing $12K for the 24 hr. in-house care (we tried to keep them in their own home as long as possible) and later for the nursing home where both were until my mother-in-law recently passed away. No, Edward Jones has been great in trying to help keep as much money as possible that we were not having to spend on care. We are now down to about $7K a month for my father-in-law's care, so it will last a little longer. Which brings me to Medicare, the other entitlement program that most on here would love to see privatized/abolished. If my in-laws had not had the good fortune to inherit $1 million from his brother, they would have been taken over by the state and put in a nursing home at the government's expense. All of their possessions would have been taken, sold at auction, and used to help defray the cost. They didn't have much but a $65K house and a $10K car, as their rental properties had already been sold. They had made a living for 50 years in their dry cleaning business, which they had planned to sell and retire on the proceeds. But dry cleaning went the way of the passenger pigeon and they had to pay someone to haul off the very expensive equipment that nobody wanted. There are many old folks staying in their rest home who are indigent, there only by the good graces of Medicare, and they are treated no differently than folks like my in-laws. What in the world would happen to these folks if you guys got your way? Thank God for the entitlement safety net. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"And your abundant one line quips have really distinguished yourself..." Thank you for noticing. No need for long winded posts to point out the obvious. G | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
it may be "adjusted for inflation", but it is not adjusted for anything else Doesn't need to be. The rest of your statement is superfluous to the argument at hand. I assumed JUST the inflation variable. In my example, I assumed NO additional increases in wages (although even the graph you posted shows some). Based on COLA increases in wages, and the percentage that is confiscated, and the average 100% secure and protected CD rates, you would still end up with more money than you'd EVER get from Social Security. THAT was the point. The rest of the argument is irrelevant. | ||
| Blake |
Jimi, I still need to see an actual sincere apology and recanting of your miserable ad hominem calling most here racists. apology (noun): Note: Stating the words "I apologize" does not constitute an actual apology. Similarly, employing weasel-worded modifier phrases such as " if I offended" or "if I hurt your feelings" is insincere and disingenuous. You've wrongly maligned good men. Either recant and apologize or cease posting here. | ||
| Blake |
Jimi, >>> The Christian high school that my grandson is going to for one. He has one hour of (creationism-fantasy-magic-sky monster fairy tale crap) spooned to him a day. You are one of the absolute worst bigots I've ever had the displeasure to encounter. In just a few days you've expunded that police are like vampires, those who oppose Obama's Progressivism are racists, and now Christianity is fantasy fairy tale crap. That is three apologies you now owe a host of good folks here. |
