| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
Chris, >>> I absolutely do not believe in the bible. I think I'm echoing the inquiry from another participant here in asking, what do you mean by that? Do you believe... It's wrong to murder? It's wrong to steal? It's wrong to be covetous? It's wrong to be adulterous? It's wrong to disrespect your parents? It's wrong to testify falsely against neighbors. It is good to treat others as you'd like to be treated? Humans are born not only of flesh but also of spirit? Which of the Proverbs of King Solomon do you not believe are good advice? Which of the poems in Psalms are unbelievable? Are you contending that all the books of the bible are nothing but pure fiction? Just trying to understand where you are coming from with such a bold statement as "I absolutely do not believe in the bible." Do you believe that the Jesus of the new testament was a real man? Do you see validity in any of the parables that Jesus reportedly taught? Which are your favorites? (Message edited by blake on September 20, 2011) | ||
| Froggy |
That is how I personally feel. I'm sure that some of it is based on real events, similar to how Free Willy was really based on a whale in captivity; but I do feel that due to thousands of years of stories being retold, translated, and republished, that things aren't quite the way they were intended. Taking David vs Goliath for example, I'm sure he was a tall dude, but not 10' tall like claimed.
I don't need a book to tell me to be a good person.
I do believe he was a real person, but I do not believe he was the son of god. If anything, I believe he was very charismatic and was able to deceive many into believing in him and his causes. | ||
| Tankhead |
What Froggy said. (Whew less typing) Blake, now if you want to talk about morals and ethics for an atheist I would again offer Ayn Rands books. The Virtue of Selfishness. Quoted on the back...... Ayn Rand here sets forth the moral principles of Objectivism, the philosophy that holds MAN'S life- the life proper to a rational being- as the standard of moral values and regards altruism as incompatible with man's nature, with the creative requirements of his survival, and with a free society. Now if that gets your curiosity going, the time it took you to think of the answer you could have ordered it on amazon. (again just kidding around, I can be a sarcastic SOB sometimes) | ||
| Tankhead |
Well, I read the explanation on his site. I will say that the argument that Craig makes is shot in the foot before we get off the ground. My immediate response to having to agree to premise one is silly. Here is why. http://atheism.about.com/od/argumentsforgod/a/onto logical.htm The Ontological Argument for the existence of God is one of the oldest arguments in Christian theology. It is also one of the most difficult to understand because it relies soley upon logical arguments and not at all upon empirical evidence. Saint Anselm of Canterbury (1033-1109) was one of the most influential proponents of this argument, and phrased it so: We have a concept of a Perfect Being: Such a Perfect Being must necessarily exist. Why? If he did not exist, then he would not be perfect. Somewhat more difficult to understand, he also wrote: Assuredly that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, cannot exist in the understanding alone. For, suppose it exists in the understanding alone: then it can be conceived to exist in reality; which is greater. Therefore, if that, than which nothing greater can be conceived, exists in the understanding alone, the very being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, is one, than which a greater can be conceived. But obviously this is impossible. Hence there is no doubt that there exists a being, than which nothing greater can be conceived, and it exists both in the understanding and in reality. Buried within all of that philosophical double-talk is the argument that in order for a being to qualify as “Greatest” (i.e., no “greater” being can be conceived of), it must have the quality of “existence.” If this “Greatest” being were simply an idea in people’s minds, then it would not have its own existence and, hence, wouldn’t really qualify as “Greatest” anymore. If you find that to be nonsense, then you aren’t alone. Even one of Anselm’s contemporaries, a monk named Gaunilo, noted that argument allowed for satirical copy-cats: We have a concept of a Perfect Island: Such a Perfect Island must necessarily exist. Why? If it did not exist, then it would not be Perfect. Basically, the rebuttal here suggests that if the Ontological Argument is valid, then absolutely every perfect thing we can think of must also simultaneously exist in reality — but we know that that isn’t true. Therefore, there must be some flaw in the argument itself. Anselm and those who accept his argument do not agree with this critique. First, they argue that a “Perfect Island” is not really a concept but merely an imaginary idea — but this just begs the question of why their “God” is not also just an imaginary idea. ---------------------------------------------- tankhead's take: He also talks about if two guys are walking in the woods and see a big transparent ball they would have to admit it has a purpose. Now picture that ball being the size of the universe. Immediately I thought. Stop. Argument over. Man created the ball in the forrest for some reason. It can't be the size of the universe just because we imagine it. Just like if you believe or imagine that there are 72 virgins waiting for you somewhere that does not make it true or fact. End of story. Thanks again. This does not answer the question I have posed. I wanted to know how do believers make sense of the argument. I know what I believe how do you believe it Blake, assuming you are a believer (and you know what they say about assume) http://atheism.about.com/od/argumentsforgod/a/onto logical.htm (Message edited by tankhead on September 20, 2011) (Message edited by tankhead on September 20, 2011) | ||
| Tankhead |
What if we learned of something similar to the premise of 2010 The Year We Make Contact. If an intelligent life form had the ability to have developed a technology to push evolution along and give other planets a way to provide a means for life to spawn and to exist and evolve, what would that do to the people who believe in one all knowing, creator and believers of ID. Watch how you answer, you might put your foot in your mouth...... | ||
| Blake |
You've yet to answer my questions. | ||
| Blake |
Frank didn't answer but a few of them either. Repeating: 1. Do you believe... 2. It's wrong to murder? 3. It's wrong to steal? 4. It's wrong to be covetous? 5. It's wrong to be adulterous? 6. It's wrong to disrespect your parents? 7. It's wrong to testify falsely against neighbors. 8. It is good to treat others as you'd like to be treated? 9. Humans are born not only of flesh but also of spirit? 10. Which of the Proverbs of King Solomon do you not believe are good advice? 11. Which of the poems in Psalms are unbelievable? 12. Are you contending that all the books of the bible are nothing but pure fiction? Just trying to understand where you are coming from with such a bold statement as "I absolutely do not believe in the bible." 13. Do you believe that the Jesus of the new testament was a real man? 14a. Do you see validity in any of the parables that Jesus reportedly taught? 14b.Which are your favorites? (Message edited by blake on September 20, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Frank, Upon what do you base your beliefs, scholarly investigation or maybe just incredulity? Have you read the bible? | ||
| Blake |
>>> I don't need a book to tell me to be a good person. Maybe not, but you claimed that a book that outlines such laws for human behavior is nothing but pure fiction? How do you know how to be a good person? Are you a good person? What is good? Never lied or stole anything? | ||
| Blake |
What if we learned of something similar to the premise of 2010 The Year We Make Contact. If an intelligent life form had the ability to have developed a technology to push evolution along and give other planets a way to provide a means for life to spawn and to exist and evolve, what would that do to the people who believe in one all knowing, creator and believers of ID. Watch how you answer, you might put your foot in your mouth...... Not what this topic is about. Please start another and I'll answer there. Just taking a queue from you there Chris. Care to answer my questions? I dare you. As you say, careful...  | ||
| Froggy |
Not in its entirety, in fact I was so put off by my forced indoctrination by my parents that I haven't even read anything from it since I was forced to in 8th grade. Perhaps I will get around to reading it one of these days, but religious school did leave a really bad taste in my mouth regarding religion in general. I'll answer all the questions again including the few I skipped. 2, yes 3, yes 4, yes 5, yes 6, yes (I was a good kid, I didn't give my parents too much trouble!) 7, yes 8, yes 9, no. I do not believe in spirits, ghosts, etc. 10, I admit I have no idea what the Proverbs of King Solomon are, I'll have to look into it and get back to you. 11, I don't know these off hand either (although I know what they are), so thats another thing I would have to do. 12, I wouldn't say all are pure fiction, but they are stories being retold over and over for thousands of years. Just like that game "telephone" the story will change over time. Every time my uncle tells me a story from his fishing adventures, the fish gets a foot longer each time. Perhaps they were real and 100% factual a couple millenniums ago, but I believe time has taken its toll and we have no way to know for sure what really happened. 13, I do not believe you were asking that directly to me 14, answered before 15, Lump these in with the other readings I need to brush up on. Jesus was about being a good person and helping others, which is something I stand by and do, regardless of who he is. | ||
| Froggy |
The laws in that book are outdated. There are parts of the bible that promote slavery among other things.
To me it seems like common sense or just good nature in general. I guess a few episodes of COPS couldn't hurt
Would you say I am a good person? I know I am not perfect, but I'm not a murderer, a crook, welfare moocher, or anything else looking to inflict any form of harm to you or your family and possessions. I will admit I have lied before, and I have stolen before. Many moons ago I was involved with internet piracy. I am clean now thanks to Netflix, Steam, and other similar services, but if you want a blu-ray copy of a movie that hasn't even hit theaters yet, give me a buzz  | ||
| Tankhead |
Not what this topic is about. Please start another and I'll answer there. Just taking a queue from you there Chris. ROFL Touche Blake touche, that was a good one. not gonna correct spelling errors too tired Do you believe... It's wrong to murder? Yes, it is not in my best self interest to murder other human beings unless it was in self defense for me or my family. Me being the highest value to me. Has nothing to do with someones elses commandments. No one commands me to do anything. It's wrong to steal? Yes, not in my best self interest to me. Me being the highest value to me. Has nothing to do with someones elses commandments. No one commands me to do anything. It's wrong to be covetous? If you mean someone elses wife Yes. Material things,, well I covet anyone who gets the first Erik Buell Racing AX Has nothing to do with someones elses commandments. No one commands me to do anything. . It's wrong to be adulterous? Yes. It would not be in my best self interest to be aldulterous. Me being the highest value. Has nothing to do with someones elses commandments. No one commands me to do anything. It's wrong to disrespect your parents? Depends It's wrong to testify falsely against neighbors. yes Does not make sense to do such. If I am the highest moral value to me. Has nothing to do with someones elses commandments. No one commands me to do anything. It is good to treat others as you'd like to be treated? makes moral sense to do so. If I am the highest value to myself, as I believe. Has nothing to do with someones elses commandments. No one commands me to do anything. Humans are born not only of flesh but also of spirit? I do not believe in spirits Which of the Proverbs of King Solomon do you not believe are good advice? Have no clue. Can't recall them at this very point in time. Which of the poems in Psalms are unbelievable? Poems are what they are poems. They are phrases that ask you to believe in things like Psalm 91. I don't believe in any of it. My personal favorite is Psalm 69 by the industrial rock band Ministry. Great tune. Are you contending that all the books of the bible are nothing but pure fiction? Again the miracles are and/or greatly exagerated along with nonsensical supernatural stories. Just trying to understand where you are coming from with such a bold statement as "I absolutely do not believe in the bible." Thank you for admitting my statements are bold. I like bold. Do you believe that the Jesus of the new testament was a real man? Possibly but performed no miracles Do you see validity in any of the parables that Jesus reportedly taught? Which are your favorites? Some of them I find in direct conflict in what I believe for my highest value being myself and then my family. I don't have an opinion and also it appears certain religious scholars don't agree that Jesus actually said them all. From wiki again While "a considerable number of exegetes in fact suppose that the parable of 'The Wise and Foolish Virgins' ultimately goes back to Jesus,"  [;12] some Bible commentators, because of its eschatological nature, doubt that Jesus ever told this parable and that, instead, it is a parable created by the very early church. A large majority of fellows on the Jesus Seminar, for example, designated the parable as merely similar to something Jesus might have said or simply inauthentic ("gray" or "black").[13] The work of the Jesus Seminar has been criticized, however.[14][15] Other scholars believe that this parable has only been lightly edited, and is an excellent example of Jesus' skill in telling parables.[16] The parable occurs in all ancient New Testament manuscripts, with only slight variations in some words.[17] (I know Blake you are goiong to say not valid because anything anyone offers to you that goes against your believe is a bigot blah blah. ROLFL When I was a boy, I loved the story of the crucifixion. I found an old long heavy tree stump and would carry it around my back yard across my back wondering if it were heavier than what Jesus carried. I then proceeded to grab some vines in my backyard (wooded backyard) and make a crown of thorns (minus the thorn) bad move.... it was poison ivey and I got it all over my face, eyes and chest. My mom would have to cut my shirt off every morning to peel it off my flesh and rip open. I was scratching it in my sleep. My favorite TV version was played by (maybe) Robert powell who had these huge blue eyes and it was very influencial to me when I was 9> (Message edited by tankhead on September 21, 2011) (Message edited by tankhead on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
So you do believe in most of god's commandments; you don't know any of the proverbs, skipped over Psalms, and seem to think the crucifixion is a parable. Seems to me that your bold statement doesn't stand up to scrutiny. In order to not believe in something, even a collection of books, it seems like one might ought to know what they say and what they mean. Care to try again on the parables of Jesus? Parables are stories that illustrate a point, often figuratively or through analogy or metaphor. The NT records a number of those that Jesus employed. Google "Jesus parables" for the entire listing. | ||
| Blake |
Frank, Your candid honesty is incredibly refreshing. It's a rare thing and indicates a complete lack of guile. I too was put off of religion in my youth. I hated church, didn't want to be there unless sports were involved. More later... | ||
| Tankhead |
Ok for the last time I warned you not to challenge what I believe. I knew that you would not be satisfied with my answers. And with that I must say that I don't give a shit Blake. I need not answer to you. You have not listed one thing that you believe and I don't care what you believe. Good for you. Don't criticize me for not going into details. I answered within a few moments. I don't remember the bible word for word. I moved on. If you care to look into the books I list that's great. Should I criticize you for not have read the books I listed. I know your answer is going to be "you are the one that said you don't believe in the bible" but should I be held accountable because I have not had the time to go back and refresh my memory. What exactly are you trying to accuse me of being? Dishonest? What, a troll? Not fair and in a horribly bad reflection on you. Good Luck. I hope that you feel superior, cause I get the feeling that this is what this is about with you, all of it, the last few days. Don't ask me anymore questions, you have proven that you have wasted my time. I tried. You persist. The argument will never end. Since I have shared some history about me how about you tell us about you? At what age did you become a Born Again Christian? Where you addicted to drugs, alcohol, sex, or food that caused you to be born again. How old where you when you were born again? Do you have siblings? I will now get off this computer and attend to my family which is of value to me. (Message edited by tankhead on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
I'm quite familiar with Rand's objectivism. History shows it to be sorely lacking and a complete fantasy. It fails to recognize that evil exists and that men fall victim to it and employ it towards their own selfish aims. I'm a Christian who believes that the god of the bible exists and that he was revealed through human form in Jesus of Nazareth. Addiction has not been an issue for me. I have a wonderful older sister. I came to recognize my spiritual self over a period of many years. More than anything, it was intellectual curiosity that compelled my deep soul-searching and study, seeking truth. My quest began in earnest in the mid-1990s and continues today, thus my interest in these discussions. The more I challenge my faith, the stronger it becomes. Now let's be honest; it's not that you didn't answer in detail; you didn't answer the question, period. Crucifixion is not a parable. Why so unhinged Chris? SDave couldn't answer that question either, nor could a collection of other atheists who initially pretended that they were thoughtful, open-minded, and honest. I had hopes that you were different. You "warned (me) not to challenge what (you) believe"? How dare I! Such insolence!  Wouldn't you agree that belief is a poor substitute for truth? What can it hurt to pray for truth, to read, study, challenge, debate? What fruit springs from a closed mind, professing belief from a state of ignorance? Isn't that called delusion? What if Jesus really was who he claimed to be? What evidence is there? Honestly? Shouldn't we always seek truth, and shine a light upon it? Shouldn't we fight against the tendency to allow the actions of bad actors, misguided and evil people, to dissuade us from seeking truth? (Message edited by Blake on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
You asked how old was i when i was born again. Do you know what did Jesus mean when he talked about being born again? Do you know Chris? Yes, I am persistent. I'm not superior. I've been a liar, thief, selfish, rude, mean, arrogant, ... I really just value honest conversation. | ||
| Tankhead |
Refreshed my answers for clarity. I was sleepy and missed a couple. Please have mercy on Me Blake. I pushed the save button before I checked everything out. I am human. You checked all of these religions out starting in the early 1990's? 1 Abrahamic religions 1.1 Bábism 1.2 Bahá'í Faith 1.3 Christianity 1.3.1 Catholicism 1.3.2 Protestantism 1.3.3 Other groups 1.4 Gnosticism 1.5 Islam 1.6 Judaism 1.7 Rastafari movement 1.8 Mandaeans and Sabians 1.9 Samaritanism 1.10 Unitarian Universalism 2 Indian religions 2.1 Ayyavazhi 2.2 Bhakti Movement 2.3 Buddhism 2.4 Din-i-Ilahi 2.5 Hinduism 2.6 Jainism 2.7 Sikhism 3 Iranian religions 3.1 Manichaeism 3.2 Mazdakism 3.3 Mithraism 3.4 Yazdânism 3.5 Zoroastrianism 4 East Asian religions 4.1 Confucianism 4.2 Shinto 4.3 Taoism 4.4 Other 5 African diasporic religions 6 Indigenous traditional religions 6.1 African 6.2 American 6.3 Eurasian 6.4 Oceania/Pacific 6.4.1 Cargo cults 7 Historical polytheism 7.1 Ancient Near Eastern 7.2 Indo-European 7.3 Hellenistic 8 Neopaganism 9 New Age, esotericism, mysticism 9.1 New Age 9.2 Esotericism and mysticism 9.3 Occult and magical 9.4 Left-Hand Path 10 New religious movements 10.1 Creativity 10.2 New Thought 10.3 Shinshukyo 11 Fictional religions 12 Parody or mock religions 13 Others 14 Other categorisations 14.1 By demographics 14.2 By area 15 See also 16 References 17 External links [edit] Abrahamic religionsMain article: Abrahamic religions A group of monotheistic traditions sometimes grouped with one another for comparative purposes, because all refer to a patriarch named Abraham. [edit] BábismMain article: Bábism Azali [edit] Bahá'í FaithMain article: Bahá'í Faith See also: Bahá'í divisions [edit] ChristianityMain article: Christianity See also: List of Christian denominations [edit] CatholicismMain article: Catholicism Anglicanism (website) Assyrian Church of the East (website) Eastern Orthodox Church (website) Oriental Orthodox Church (website) Roman Catholic Church (website) [edit] ProtestantismMain article: Protestantism [edit] Other groupsBible Student movement Christian Universalism Latter Day Saint movement Nontrinitarianism Swedenborgianism Unitarianism The Creativity Movement [edit] GnosticismMain article: Gnosticism See also: List of Gnostic sects Christian Gnosticism Ebionites Cerdonians Marcionism (not entirely Gnostic) Colorbasians Simonians Early Gnosticism Borborites Cainites Carpocratians Ophites Hermeticism Medieval Gnosticism Cathars Bogomils Paulicianism Tondrakians Persian Gnosticism Mandaeanism Manichaeism Bagnolians Syrian-Egyptic Gnosticism Main article: Syrian-Egyptic Gnosticism Sethians Basilidians Valentinians Bardesanites [edit] IslamMain article: Islam See also: Islamic schools and branches Kalam Schools Main article: Kalam Ash'ari Kalam Maturidi Murji'ah Mu'tazili Kharijite Main article: Kharijite Ibadi (Only surviving sect) Azraqi Haruriyya Sufri Shia Islam Main article: Shia Islam Ismailism Mustaali / Bohra Nizari Jafari Twelvers Akhbari Shaykhi Usuli Alawites Alevi / Bektashi Zaidiyyah Sufism Main article: Sufism Bektashi Chishti Mevlevi Mujaddediyah Naqshbandi Jahriyya Khufiyya Nimatullahi Tariqah Quadiriyyah Sufi Order International Sufism Reoriented Suhrawardiyya Tijani Universal Sufism Dances of Universal Peace Sunni Islam Main article: Sunni Islam Hanafi Berailvi Deobandi Gedimu Yihewani Xidaotang Hanbali Maliki Shafi'i Other Islamic Groups Ahl-e Hadith or Salafi Ahl-e Haqq or Yarsan Ahl-e Quran Ahmadiyya Ahmadiyya Muslim Community Lahore Ahmadiyya Movement Al-Fatiha Foundation Canadian Muslim Union Druze European Islam Five Percenters Ittifaq al-Muslimin Jamaat al-Muslimeen Jadid Liberal Muslims Muslim Canadian Congress Moorish Science Temple of America Mahdavia Nation of Islam Nuwaubianism Progressive British Muslims Progressive Muslim Union Qur'an Alone Tolu-e-Islam United Submitters International Wahabi Zikri [edit] JudaismMain article: Judaism See also: Jewish Denominations Rabbinic Judaism Main article: Rabbinic Judaism Orthodox Judaism Haredi Judaism Hasidic Judaism Modern Orthodox Judaism Conservative Judaism Masorti Conservadox Judaism Union for Traditional Judaism Reform Judaism Progressive Judaism Liberal Judaism Karaite Judaism Main article: Karaite Judaism Modern Non-Rabbinic Judaism Alternative Judaism Humanistic Judaism (not always identified as a religion) Jewish Renewal Reconstructionist Judaism Historical groups Essenes Pharisees (ancestor of Rabbinic Judaism) Sadducees (possible ancestor of Karaite Judaism) Zealots Sicarii Sects that believed Jesus was a prophet Ebionites Elkasites Nazarenes Sabbateans Frankists [edit] Rastafari movementMain article: Rastafari movement [edit] Mandaeans and SabiansMain articles: Mandaeism and Sabians Mandaeism Sabians Sabians of Harran Mandaean Nasaraean Sabeans [edit] SamaritanismMain article: Samaritanism [edit] Unitarian UniversalismMain article: Unitarian Universalism [edit] Indian religionsMain article: Indian religions Religions that originated in India and religions and traditions related to, and descended from, them. [edit] AyyavazhiMain article: Ayyavazhi [edit] Bhakti MovementMain article: Bhakti Movement Kabir Panth Sant Mat [edit] BuddhismMain article: Schools of Buddhism Nikaya schools (which have historically been called Hinayana in the West) Theravada Sri Lankan Amarapura Nikaya Sri Lankan Siam Nikaya Sri Lankan Ramańńa Nikaya Bangladeshi Sangharaj Nikaya Bangladeshi Mahasthabir Nikaya Burmese Thudhamma Nikaya Vipassana tradition of Mahasi Sayadaw and disciples Burmese Shwekyin Nikaya Burmese Dvaya Nikaya Thai Maha Nikaya Dhammakaya Movement Thai Thammayut Nikaya Thai Forest Tradition Tradition of Ajahn Chah Mahayana Humanistic Buddhism Madhyamaka Prāsangika Svatantrika Sanlun (Three Treatise school) Sanron Maha-Madhyamaka (Jonangpa) Nichiren Nichiren Shū Nichiren Shōshū Nipponzan Myōhōji Soka Gakkai Pure Land Jodo Shu Jodo Shinshu Tathagatagarbha Daśabhūmikā (absorbed into Huayan) Huayan school (Avataṃsaka) Hwaeom Kegon Tiantai Tendai Cheontae Yogācāra Cittamatra in Tibet Wei-Shi (Consciousness-only school) or Faxiang (Dharma-character school) Beopsang Hossō Chan / Zen / Seon / Thien Caodong Sōtō Keizan line Jakuen line Giin line Linji Rinzai Ōbaku Fuke Zen Won Buddhism: Korean Reformed Buddhism Kwan Um School of Zen Sanbo Kyodan Vajrayana Shingon Buddhism Tibetan Buddhism Bön Gelukpa Kagyupa Dagpo Kagyu Karma Kagyu Barom Kagyu Tsalpa Kagyu Phagdru Kagyu Drikung Kagyu Drukpa Kagyu Shangpa Kagyu Nyingmapa Sakyapa Jonangpa New Buddhist movements Aum Shinrikyo (now known as Aleph)[1] Diamond Way Friends of the Western Buddhist Order New Kadampa Tradition[2] Share International True Buddha School Vipassana movement [edit] Din-i-IlahiDin-i-Ilahi [edit] HinduismSee also: Hindu denominations Swaminarayan Shrauta Lingayatism Shaivism Shaktism Tantrism Ananda Marga[3] Smartism Vaishnavism Gaudiya Vaishnavism ISKCON (Hare Krishna)[4] Hindu reform movements Arya Samaj[5] Brahmo Samaj Hinduism in Indonesia Major schools and movements of Hindu philosophy Main article: Hindu philosophy Nyaya Purva mimamsa Samkhya Vaisheshika Vedanta (Uttara Mimamsa) Advaita Vedanta Integral Yoga Vishishtadvaita Dvaita Vedanta Yoga Ashtanga Yoga Bhakti Yoga Hatha yoga Siddha Yoga Surat Shabd Yoga Tantric Yoga Sahaja Yoga [edit] JainismMain article: Jainism Digambara Bisapanthi[6] Digambar Terapanth Taran Panth Kanji Panth[6] Gumanapantha[6] Totapantha[6] Shvetambara Svetambar Terapanth Murtipujaka or Deravasi Sthanakvasi [edit] SikhismMain article: Sikhism Khalsa Nihang Namdhari or Kuka Sikhs Sahajdhari Sikh Ravidasi [edit] Iranian religionsMain article: Iranian religions Bábism Bahá'í Faith Mandaeism [edit] ManichaeismManichaeism [edit] MazdakismMazdakism [edit] MithraismMithraism [edit] YazdânismMain article: Yazdânism Alevi Yarsani Yazidi [edit] ZoroastrianismMain article: Zoroastrianism Zurvanism [edit] East Asian religionsMain article: East Asian religions [edit] ConfucianismMain article: Confucianism Neo-Confucianism New Confucianism [edit] ShintoMain articles: Shinto and Shinto sects and schools [edit] TaoismMain article: Taoism [edit] OtherCaodaism Chinese folk religion Chondogyo Falun Gong Hoa Hao I-Kuan Tao Jeung San Do Legalism Mohism Oomoto Seicho-No-Ie Tenrikyo [edit] African diasporic religionsSee also: African diasporic religions African diasporic religions are a number of related religions that developed in the Americas among African slaves and their descendants in various countries of the Caribbean Islands and Latin America, as well as parts of the southern United States. They derive from African traditional religions, especially of West and Central Africa, showing similarities to the Yoruba religion in particular. Batuque Candomblé Dahomey mythology Haitian mythology Kumina Macumba Mami Wata Obeah Oyotunji Quimbanda Santería (Lukumi) Umbanda[7] Vodou [edit] Indigenous traditional religionsSee also: Paganism and Folk religion Traditionally, these faiths have all been classified "Pagan", but scholars prefer the terms "indigenous/primal/folk/ethnic religions". [edit] AfricanMain article: African traditional religions West Africa Akan mythology Ashanti mythology (Ghana) Dahomey (Fon) mythology Efik mythology (Nigeria, Cameroon) Igbo mythology (Nigeria, Cameroon) Isoko mythology (Nigeria) Yoruba mythology (Nigeria, Benin) Central Africa Bushongo mythology (Congo) Bambuti (Pygmy) mythology (Congo) Lugbara mythology (Congo) East Africa Akamba mythology (East Kenya) Dinka mythology (Sudan) Lotuko mythology (Sudan) Masai mythology (Kenya, Tanzania) Southern Africa Khoikhoi mythology Lozi mythology (Zambia) Tumbuka mythology (Malawi) Zulu mythology (South Africa) [edit] AmericanMain article: Native American mythology Abenaki mythology Anishinaabe Aztec mythology Blackfoot mythology Cherokee mythology Chickasaw mythology Choctaw mythology Creek mythology Crow mythology Ghost Dance Guarani mythology Haida mythology Ho-Chunk mythology (aka: Winnebago) Hopi mythology Inca mythology Indian Shaker Church Inuit mythology Iroquois mythology Keetoowah Nighthawk Society Kuksu Kwakiutl mythology Lakota mythology Leni Lenape mythology Longhouse religion Mapuche mythology Maya mythology Midewiwin Miwok Native American Church Navajo mythology Nootka mythology Ohlone mythology Olmec mythology Pomo mythology Pawnee mythology Salish mythology Selk'nam religion Seneca mythology Southeastern Ceremonial Complex Sun Dance Tsimshian mythology Urarina Ute mythology Wyandot religion Zuni mythology [edit] EurasianMain article: Eurasian Indigenous Religions Asian Bön Chinese mythology Japanese mythology Koshinto Siberian Shamanism Tengriism European Estonian mythology Eskimo religion Finnish mythology and Finnish paganism Hungarian folk religion Sami religion (including the Noaidi) Tadibya [edit] Oceania/PacificAustralian Aboriginal mythology Austronesian beliefs Balinese mythology Javanese beliefs Melanesian mythology Micronesian mythology Modekngei Nauruan indigenous religion Philippine mythology Anito Gabâ Kulam Polynesian mythology Hawaiian mythology Maori mythology Maori religion Rapa Nui mythology Moai Tangata manu [edit] Cargo cultsMain article: Cargo cults John Frum Johnson cult Prince Philip Movement Vailala Madness [edit] Historical polytheismFurther information: Prehistoric religion and History of religion [edit] Ancient Near EasternMain article: Ancient Near Eastern religions Ancient Egyptian religion Ancient Semitic religions Mesopotamian mythology Arabian mythology (pre-Islamic) Babylonian and Assyrian religion Babylonian mythology Chaldean mythology Canaanite mythology Canaanite religion Hittite mythology Persian mythology Sumerian mythology [edit] Indo-EuropeanMain article: Proto-Indo-European religion Proto-Indo-Iranian religion Historical Vedic religion Zoroastrianism Baltic polytheism Celtic polytheism Brythonic mythology Gaelic mythology Germanic polytheism Anglo-Saxon religion Continental Germanic religion Norse religion Greek polytheism Finnish polytheism Hungarian polytheism Roman polytheism Slavic polytheism [edit] HellenisticMain article: Hellenistic religion Mystery religions Eleusinian Mysteries Mithraism Orphism Pythagoreanism Gallo-Roman religion [edit] NeopaganismMain article: List of Neopagan movements [edit] New Age, esotericism, mysticism[edit] New AgeMain article: New Age Neoshamanism Reiki [edit] Esotericism and mysticismMain articles: Esotericism and Mysticism Anthroposophy Christian mysticism Esoteric Christianity Hindu mysticism Tantra Vaastu Shastra Martinism Meher Baba[8] Rosicrucian Ancient Mystical Order Rosae Crucis[9] Rosicrucian Fellowship Sufism Theosophy Wicca [edit] Occult and magicalMain articles: Occultism, Magic (paranormal), and Magick Ceremonial magic Enochian magic Goetic magic Chaos magick Hoodoo (Rootwork) New Orleans Voodoo Kulam – Filipino witchcraft National Socialism and Occultism Pow-wow Seiđr – Norse sorcery Thelema Witchcraft [edit] Left-Hand PathMain article: Left-Hand Path and Right-Hand Path Demonolatry Luciferianism Satanism Church of Satan Setianism [edit] New religious movementsMain article: List of new religious movements [edit] CreativityCreativity (religion) [edit] New ThoughtMain article: New Thought Divine Science Religious Science Unity Church Jewish Science Seicho-no-Ie [edit] ShinshukyoMain article: Shinshūkyō Church of World Messianity Konkokyo Oomoto PL Kyodan Seicho-No-Ie Tenrikyo [edit] Fictional religionsMain article: List of fictional religions [edit] Parody or mock religionsChurch of Euthanasia Church of the Flying Spaghetti Monster Church of the SubGenius Iglesia Maradoniana Invisible Pink Unicorn Kibology Landover Baptist Church Last Thursdayism [edit] OthersDeism Discordianism Eckankar Ethical Culture Fellowship of Reason Fourth Way Humanism Jediism[10] Juche Meher Baba Naturalistic Pantheism Pantheism Scientology Secular Humanism Subud Universal Life Church Unitarian Universalism Don't mock one of them Blake. Just because the majority of them don't believe what you believe doesn't make them biggots. Or any less of a human being. Who is right> Who holds the truth that you have been searching for. Could any of them have the truth. I don't believe so because I do not believe in religion. You do so how do you explain? (Message edited by tankhead on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Answer my questions? 14a. Do you see validity in any of the parables that Jesus reportedly taught? To clarify, I'm not asking if you believe Jesus actually stated all the parables attributed to him in the NT, I'm asking if you see validity in those parables, regardless of their origin. 14b. Which are your favorites? I'm not interested in analysis from wikipedia or the dubious claims of the Jesus seminar. I am asking you Chris. My personal quest for truth was not in the form of an exhaustive compare and contrast investigation of every "religion" on planet earth. My quest began with the question of origins and science and worked backwards from there. I read the koran and books of the bible. I asked many of the same questions that we see pop up in discussion here. I learned, challenged, and educated myself. In the end, I found a lot of truth. C.S. Lewis was a big help in that. Answer my question? | ||
| Blake |
>>> Don't mock one of them Blake. I think I'm free to mock as I like. >>> Just because the majority of them don't believe what you believe doesn't make them biggots. Who said it did. What makes a person a bigot is when they behave like a bigot. You seem to be back in straw-man troll mode again. >>> Or any less of a human being. Agreed. All humans are human beings. >>> Who is right> Who holds the truth that you have been searching for. Could any of them have the truth. I don't believe so because I do not believe in religion. You disbelieve out of ignorance. Justify that. >>> You do (believe) so how do you explain? I've seen and continue to learn more convincing evidence that supports what I believe. I've explained some of that evidence in discussions here. The evidence for design in the cosmos and life itself. The fact that science has shown that our universe and time itself indeed had a beginning. The unbelievable perfection of programming that is DNA. That without god, all of creation is absurdity. The oft seen unhinged outrage, derision, and bewildering inflammatory rhetoric displayed by vocal atheists towards believers and the bible is evidence that something tangible, something very real is in play, otherwise they would simply calmly judge each individual upon his own behavior and merit. When the ideas that god exists, that he created us in his cognitive image, that we have an eternal soul, that god offers us forgiveness and redemption as a gift that we need merely accept, that it is good that we should treat others as we would like to be treated; when those ideas generate such bewildering hatefulness, guile and outright bigotry towards believers, it is clear unmistakable evidence that something very, very real is in play. I've seen it too many times. So too is the willingness of some to so caustically deride that of which they know so little, and what little they think they know is blatant falsehood, a product of willful ignorance. I can understand being put off by the bad behavior of misguided or evil people. I just refuse to accept that those bad actors represent the truth concerning god or religion. | ||
| Tankhead |
14a:Some of them I find in direct conflict in what I believe for my highest value being myself and then my family. I don't have an opinion I DON"T CARE ABOUT THE PARABLES SO I CAN GIVE NO OPINION. Whether they are valid to whom me???? That is the answer. I don't care about them. Just like I don't care about the other four hundred or so religions I have posted. I answered the question 2x now. 14b. Which are your favorites? See above. Please don't ask me anymore questions You and I disagree. End of story. | ||
| Blake |
The parables are not religion, just like the commandments that you did profess agreement with are not religion. They are illustrations of concepts and philosophy meant to help guide folks towards truth, goodness, and happiness and away from evil. It's odd that you are able to object to some, but cannot muster the integrity to say that any of them appeal to you. To that notion, you change your story to proclaiming that you do not care about them. Very telling. (Message edited by Blake on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
By the way, your supposed list of religions is full of non-religions, "Asian" for instance. It also seems to include a lot of repetition and summaries, also denominations. I'm still not clear on the logic for listing them all? It's kind of like listing a bunch of excuses told by husbands who are late getting home to their wives and claiming that none of them are true, or that since there are so many, you refuse to believe any of them. It's just not logical. Many, many, many ideas are false. Truth is out there. Seek it. | ||
| Blake |
The Good Pirate: That is the parable of the good Samaritan (a person from Samaria), transformed into Buell forum guise. Samaritans were largely despised among Jews of the Jerusalem. Pretty good lesson, well unless you are only about looking out for yourself I guess. (Message edited by blake on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Tankhead |
Ok> Here is am example of a random parable that I dont care about, Why, because it talks about god returning, the Lord, God . Blake please for the last time, I can not think something is valid IF I DON"T BELIEVE IT. Man, are you not reading my responses> I DON"T BELIEVE IN GOD, Your God, any god. I don't believe in the Bible. I don't believe in the supernatural. Why do you keep asking me questions?? I don't care what you believe. Let me believe whatever the hell I want to and leave me alone. Scripture: Luke 17:37 (Matthew 24:28) 37 And they said to him, "Where, Lord?" He said to them, "Where the body is, there the eagles (also translated vultures) will be gathered together." Meditation: What can nature teach us about the judgments of God? Jesus quoted a familiar proverb to his audience: Where the body is, there the eagles (or vultures) will be gathered together. Eagles, like vultures, are attracted to carrion. The Book of Job describes the eagle spying out its prey from afar (Job 39:29). What's the point of this analogy? It's inevitable that a thing will happen when the necessary conditions are fulfilled. The return of the Lord is certain, but the time is unknown. The Lord's judgment comes swiftly and often unexpectedly. Jesus warns his listeners to not be caught off guard when that day arrives (see Luke 17:26-37). It will surely come in God's good time! Those whose hope is firmly anchored in heaven will not be disappointed when God's judgment comes. They rejoice even now that they will see the Lord in his glory! Is your hope firmly placed in God and his kingdom? "Lord Jesus Christ , you are my hope and salvation. Help me to never lose sight of the goal of heaven and give me fresh joy and zeal to live each day for your kingdom." My point in posting that long list is (mr. Literal) an example of all(many) of the different ideas there are to explain or find truth and the fact that you will not admit that because of the sheer enormity of the list you are so blind in your thinking that your religion is the only religion that speaks truth. It speaks truth to you because you believe it. So will all of the other millions of peope who will eventually die believing some other faith (religion) all go to hell? (I don't believe in hell so I don't care about it. When you or I die that is it. Worm food) If you do believe in hell, shouldn't you care about it? Why would millions of people be dying and going to hell because they don't believe what Blake does? I don't want you to answer. I am just posing these questions for you hypothetically. I don't care to read about your answers anymore. Notice I am not asking questions about what I believe and list concepts of Objectivism, or Aristotle. Because I DON"T CARE WHAT YOU THINK. It is not in my best self-interest to continue this crap. Me being my highest value. I am done with you Blake. I don't believe there is any value left in our discussing anything like this again. We don't agree. The end. (Message edited by tankhead on September 21, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
I'd not call that a parable. Sounds like a proverb that Jesus quoted. See the following for what appears to be a decent accounting of actual parables... http://www.lifeofchrist.com/teachings/parables/def ault.asp Again, you do obviously care about some, those that you contend you oppose. You cared enough to note that you disagree with them. Yet you can find none that you find valuable or with which you agree (find valid) and then change your story claiming that you don't care and don't believe in the bible. I've never heard anyone not believe in a collection of actual books. It's a real collection of books, I assure you. You don't have to believe in it. It exists. It's the best selling collection of books on the planet, bar none. >>> you are so blind in your thinking that your religion is the only religion that speaks truth. I don't believe that at all. Many religions speak truth. I'd venture to say that virtually all of them speak to some truth at some level, even your favored Randian Objectivism. If you didn't care what anyone else thinks, it's an odd thing to claim to post on a discussion forum trying to get others thinking, and asking folks to explain their beliefs. Very odd. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_religions I partially believe in the Bible. No longer count myself as Christian, so have a limited amount to contribute here.... Lots and lots of paths. One of the better platonic explanations... ( the fellow in the doorway is the station doctor who follows a faith that believes that each faith has a germ of truth, and that you should seek out the truth in all it's forms..... he understands the metaphor G'kar is trying to give the students....alas, they do not. ) |
