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P47b
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 12:45 pm: | 
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My thought is that any event around you will have a level of danger no matter how far or close you want to be.
Be it from the fans or the competitors.
Even in other countries there are people being trampled or beat for their affiliation with the team of their choosing.
Air racing is a unique sport. To me it shows that nothing in life is completely safe.
Reno has done an awesome job on trying to keep everyone safe and I do not feel that this should stop Reno from going on.
However, I have seen stupider things happen when someone considers something too dangerous. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 12:58 pm: |
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I saw this on TV yesterday. It's now being theorized that the seat may have broken causing him to not be able to regain control. That picture certainly shows he isn't where he should be. Even passed out, he should be strapped in enough that he would be visible in the cockpit.
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2039871/Re no-air-crash-2011-Pilots-chair-broken-moments-impa ct.html
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Hughlysses
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 01:26 pm: |
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I wonder why the tail wheel is down? IIRC, it's retractable just like the main gear. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 01:35 pm: |
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The tail wheel was mentioned on the TV report I heard. They had no explanation for that. I'll take a WAG (wild a&& guess) at it though. I wonder if when the seat collapsed if he triggered the release for it trying to get back to a position where he could control the plane.
Something that doesn't fit well with that theory though, is I would have the tail wheel be controlled by the main gear control. Some knowledge of how this was engineered on this specific racer might give some insight. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 07:12 pm: |
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Gear retraction is a big deal with unlimiteds. Greenamayer had a one-shot retraction system (Nitrogen bottle) and gravity extension to save weight. The tail wheel (IIRC) was retracted manually.
It was said that if his gear came up, he would win.
I'd imagine this may have had other concepts to save weight... separate retract/extend systems. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 07:19 pm: |
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I've been wondering if the tail wheel could have been extended by the pilots seat breaking loose. Just speculation on my part, but I'm sure there's plenty of stuff pretty exposed running from the cockpit to the tail, especially after they lighten them up for racing.
It was said that if his gear came up, he would win.
That's pretty funny. I'd be more worried about it getting down and locked again. |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 07:58 pm: |
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Excellent thread at an air racing forum here:
http://aafo.com/hangartalk/showthread.php?t=9274
The latest posts indicate that the "broken seat" theory has been soundly disproved. Linked news article from today indicates pilot was likely unconscious at the time of the crash:
http://www.rgj.com/article/20110921/EVENTS05/110921003/Experts++Pilot+likely+unconscious+in+Reno+crash+
(Message edited by Hughlysses on September 21, 2011)
(Message edited by Hughlysses on September 21, 2011) |
Hughlysses
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 08:05 pm: |
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You can vote in an on-line pole (for all that's worth) on whether the races should continue in future years here:
http://www.ktvn.com
91% pro so far.  |
Sifo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 08:30 pm: |
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Yeah, I've seen the theory about him being blacked out too. It's possible, but there's a few things I can't get past with that theory. I know there's a photo that seems to show him up against the instrument panel, but it's real hard to really make out, at least at the resolutions that I've seen on the internet. Again, speculation on my part here, but I would expect his harness from letting him get that far forward in the first place, or completely out of sight in the profile shot. A broken seat might allow this to happen though. It's very possible that multiple issues have contributed to the crash. I would be curious if any theories can explain the tail wheel. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 09:14 pm: |
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quote:That's pretty funny. I'd be more worried about it getting down and locked again.
You can land on the belly and win. Heck for an international record, you only have to survive for 24 hours. |
Panhead_dan
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 21, 2011 - 09:44 pm: |
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The pilot was like 78 and putting himself in a high G situation during an exibition. He Ged out. That's why he is slumped out of the picture.
He died doing what he loved.
A little further downfield would have been infinately better but here lies a whole can of worms. |
03fatboy
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 08:21 am: |
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In any plane crash or crash in general there is usually a chain of events that if just one had not happened the crash would be averted. I am sure the NTSB and FAA report will show more than just one factor when it becomes public. |
Xl1200r
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 08:42 am: |
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Sifo, even in the proper position, his head would be just barely showing. By the time that shot was taken, he was already in a high g maneuver for a while, I don't think it's out of the question to not see him given he'd be very slumped over at this point.
I wonder, with the trim tab broken and the plane pulling up, the tail wheel may have been a way to try and slow the thing down? |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 10:25 am: |
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Sifo, even in the proper position, his head would be just barely showing. By the time that shot was taken, he was already in a high g maneuver for a while, I don't think it's out of the question to not see him given he'd be very slumped over at this point.
I have to disagree somewhat. The canopy on these things have been cut down so that they barely fit in them. One of the articles linked above talked about the fact that since they've been required to wear helmets the canopies have had to be made larger. Then you have the shoulder straps that should prevent him from slumping forward very far. Of course I'm assuming that he had more than a simple lap belt, but I think that's a pretty safe assumption. If he had a 5 point harness like what is used in auto racing he wouldn't be able to slip down into the seat either. I really don't know what's required safety gear in this sport, but I'm sure that cost wouldn't be a factor on skimping on safety belts. It would be interesting to know the equipment layout in the cockpit.
I wonder, with the trim tab broken and the plane pulling up, the tail wheel may have been a way to try and slow the thing down?
Two far more effective and easier to implement ways to slow it down would be to cut the throttle and gain altitude. He did gain altitude initially. If on purpose, or because of the trim tab is tough to say. Reports are that he went into the ground with the power on. That part may support the black out theory. There are conflicting reports on if the plane stalled. I've seen the claim it stalled, snap rolled and fell to the ground in a stall. This would explain keeping the power on. I've also seen the claim saying it never stalled, never snap rolled and went into the ground at high speed. Frankly the pictures and video that I've seen don't show the part where the snap roll is supposed to have happened, but the end part certainly supports flying at high speed, not stalled. I've seen the results of stall crashes and they don't tend to disintegrate the plane as seen in this case.
I hope the NTSB can put a clear picture together. I understand that NTSB people were there and witnessed the crash. That's unusual. They have a very grim job, but at the same time I find the technical aspects of what they do fascinating. They just work at a much slower pace than the media. |
Whistler
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 11:01 am: |
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Galloping Ghost web site -
http://www2.leewardairranch.com/racing |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 11:18 am: |
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Here's a pic that show how high he sits in the canopy. It just barely clears his helmet.
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J2blue
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 11:33 am: |
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Maybe it was aliens, or the rapture. |
Sifo
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 11:45 am: |
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If it was the rapture, I'm a bit disturbed by the numbers that were left behind! |
Mikef5000
| | Posted on Thursday, September 22, 2011 - 05:48 pm: |
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If it was the rapture, I'm a bit disturbed by the numbers that were left behind!
Disturbed, yes... surprised, no. |
Slaughter
| | Posted on Sunday, September 25, 2011 - 12:09 pm: |
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http://radio.foxnews.com/2011/09/20/audio-aviation -legend-chuck-yeager-comments-on-the-reno-crash/
Interview with Chuck Yeager on the incident |
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