| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
It is unfeakingbelievable that this corrupt lying idiot clown is the President of our nation. Amen | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, you are right (and this time, you are even correct). But I read it (critically), I didn't see it on TV. That article is a decidedly slanted piece, put out as a rebuttal of crazy far right untruth. That it comes from the Left is obvious from the moment you see the photo of Bachmann. So you know what you are getting when you go into it. I said I try to seek out balanced news outlets. It's hard to find them, though. Obama is decidedly centrist. Way too far to the center for many of his Left core. You can read about it HERE among other sources. As to his decidedly non-socialist economic policies, read HERE Also, recall how many Bush policies have indeed remained in place. Look at Bernanke, Geithner, and all the other Wall Street bankers running "The Obama Show." If that shows you anything, it's that Obama is really, really for re-distribution of wealth: from the bottom up to the top. Socialist? No, I don't think so. In what way does that rebut any "crazy far right untruth"? I don't even know what "untruth" you are referring to. Far from rebutting anything it simply makes the one pushing this look foolish. The way to rebut something is to point out the fallacy directly and correct it with facts. As for BO being centrist, that's simply absurd. See what Blake said. That's a much more effective way to rebut "crazy far | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
We are hearing that it's time for he "rich to pay their fair share". With that being the case, what percentage of earned income should the rich pay? The top 50% pay 97.30% of the total taxes, so we are talking about the top 50% only. Care to guess what the latest numbers were for the AGI for this group? The top 1% had combined AGI of $1.685T. We need $3.6T per year to pay for the current budget. That won't work. Gateway income for top 1%: $380,354 The top 5% had combined AGI of $2.9T. We need $3.6T per year to pay for the current budget. That won't work. Gateway income for top 5%: $159,619 The top 10% had combined AGI of $3.86T. We need $3.6T per year to pay for the current budget. Great. Now we just need to collect 93% of every dollar earned by the top 10%. Think they'll go for that? Gateway income for top 10%: $113,799 The top 25% had combined AGI of $5.68T. So we'll need to collect 63.4% of every dollar earned by the top 25%. Think they'll go for that? Gateway income for top 25%: $67,280 The top 50% had combined AGI of $7.35T. Would we'll need to collect 49% of every dollar earned by the top 50%. Think the top 50% will go for that? Gateway income for the top 50%: $33,048 So to pay for the current budget EVERYONE above $33,048 is now "rich" and must pay 49% of EVERY DOLLAR EARNED. Still think taxing the rich will fix the problem? http://www.taxfoundation.org/news/show/250.html id=102886,00.html,http://www.irs.gov/taxstats/art icle/0,,id=102886,00.html | ||
| Aesquire |
Blake, while you're at it, eliminate withholding. Then when the check for taxes must be written by the taxpayer..... the game is over. And Warren Buffet still won't pay a dime more than he has to. Which, as he himself claims, is less than we do. He didn't get rich by giving money away. ( and for some reason we know far to much how much money he does give away. He has a pr dept. to tell us exactly how noble he is. Such publicity on how generous isn't, wait, what was that religion that encourages charity without credit? You know the one....  ) If Obama has NOT inherited a problem economy, would the deficit be one penny less? He has voted for, signed or requested more deficit each year he's been in federal service, so I doubt it. Not that the R's kicked out for overspending to make room for Barry & buddies did much better. It's the spending, stupid. It's also preaching class envy and hatred. Who does that? Good leaders? Or bad rulers? | ||
| Fahren |
Good reading: http://www.theburningplatform.com/?p=20378 http://market-ticker.org/akcs-www?post=192780 Remember the Boy Scout motto. | ||
| Aesquire |
Thanks. Interesting reads. The tribulations of the super rich. $280 mil in one day? Takes money to make money. ( note that the $280 million won't be taxed as income. ) http://www.cnbc.com/id/44271253 http://www.telegraph.co.uk/finance/newsbysector/ba nksandfinance/8723524/Warren-Buffett-makes-280m-pr ofit-on-Bank-of-America-stake-in-just-24-hours.htm l http://www.bloomberg.com/news/2011-08-25/warren-bu ffett-to-host-obama-fundraiser-in-new-york-on-sept -30.html | ||
| Gregtonn |
"federal money is spent hiring then those employees spend their money on private goods creating demand in the private market. demand then grows businesses." Federal money is money that has been taken form the private market. The more you take the greater the drag on the economy. Your theory is exactly like believing in perpetual motion machines. G | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
government creates jobs the same way tax cuts create jobs. federal money is spent hiring then those employees spend their money on private goods creating demand in the private market. demand then grows businesses. for tax cuts it'd be, money that would have been spent on taxes is diverted to private goods creating demand in the private market. demand then grows businesses. currently the problem we are having is lack of demand, everyone is in a saving mode not a spending mode. Are you really this dense? If this is the case, why not confiscate ALL the money and make everyone a government employee? I produce a product that is $1 in price. Of that $1 price, let's assume $.60 is labor, raw materials, R&D, marketing, and administrative costs. That leaves $.40 gross profit. Let's assume that a new tax is passed in which I must pay 40% of my profit in taxes. I was making $.40 per unit sold. Now, I'm only able to keep $.24. In order for me to continue making the same income I did before, I now have to raise my price. The new price is $1.26. I still have $.60 in production costs, but have to make $.66 per unit gross in order to NET $.40 per unit ($.66 - $.26 (40% tax) = $.40). But wait, all the suppliers of the raw materials I need to produce my product have to pay the same tax I do. This means, then, that my production costs also have to go up. The new production costs are $1.00 ($.60 plus + $.40 in taxes due = $1.00). My new product cost is $1.66. Now the $.66 in taxes are given to a "government employee" to spend. How exactly were jobs created or demand increased? Yes, there is now a government worker with $.66 that they didn't have to spend before, but the goods and services are 66% more expensive.  From the graph, the effect is two fold. First the tax has increased the price (P1 to P2). Second, the increased cost (indicated in gray as Tax Revenue) has reduced the demand for the product. This is indicated by a contraction of quantities (Q1 to Q2). Sellers supply the quantity to meet demand (producing extra results in excess supply from which the seller is unable to recoup invested capital. So the net effect is higher prices and lower supply for EVERYONE. Fewer quantities produced means fewer employees hired, fewer goods sold, fewer monies changing hands, and fewer tax revenues raised. Lower taxes have the opposite effect. (Message edited by ft bstrd on August 26, 2011) | ||
| Blake |
Patrick, >>> Blake, while you're at it, eliminate withholding. Then when the check for taxes must be written by the taxpayer..... the game is over. If only. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
If this is the case, why not confiscate ALL the money and make everyone a government employee? careful - that is the smell of exactly what they intend in the United Socialist States of American (because the Central and South Americans will now be considered 'comrade citizens too !) 'workers' is one thing... how many are already incarcerated, on the dole, or employed by the government.... you will find there are very few private sector jobs that are not stuck at the government tit. how many are paid NOT to work because of entitlements, endowments, stipends, grants, awards, or social programs?..... eventually the straw breaks the camels back, we saw it in Russia in 1989 after their failed war with Afghanistan.... It looks like our turn is next. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Yes we can! | ||
| Aesquire |
I'm impressed. I was unaware that ancient Africa had Tesla free electricity before Tesla. I have to do some research on that. I was aware of ancient Iraqi batteries, and have read speculation on piezoelectric crystals being used to drill rock in Egypt. But free electricity is a new one on me. As to the rest? Sister, I hear you. Work sucks. It's a pity that you can't experience life back as our ancestors lived it. The land was indeed free. Until someone came and took it, usually taking you as a slave, or killing you after the rape, pillage and burn social encounter. You didn't have to work 8 or 16 hours a day. Just long enough to feed yourself and fetch enough water to survive. And make & maintain shelter against the elements. Unless you had children, then you had to work just long enough to keep them alive too. A bit more fetching water and gathering food. Or perhaps made a spear and hunted for food. While avoiding being eaten. ( not an afro-centric problem...heard of cave bears? ) I think that you'd find basic survival only occupies you between dawn and dusk. The rest of the time is spent in the dark in fear. No time card needed. I'll leave the religious issue alone. We can all tell she's ripe to join the REAL slave religion of thinking nothing is your fault, and you need a | ||
| Cityxslicker |
ugh, Anton Checkov 1892 And there was such blight from famine and shortage, there were people living in huts 15 to a box, the filth and deprivaty such that many were delirious, drunk, or abject in despondency. Or so the note of the besieged Nurse had called it. And what of it, the nurse and her doctor were there at the pleasure and entertainment not to cure the poor, but to maintain that they were kept poor as their salary was dependant upon their wretched audience. But still they entreated me to make means of 'retribution' Sir 'Robber Baron' must be worth hundreds of thousands of rubles, surely he should have to pay his fair share to the aid. But what of it, it is theft from me whether you come to my farm with a gun and hunger than if you come with a writ and a dolg (tax duty). Their situation is not of my making, not of my responsibility, not of my vain, suredly my money is not a cure to their ailments either. It is but to feed the largess, the committees, the dinners, the banquets the appartchik that feel they are inclined to moral pursuits - all in the while they too are perpetuated the leaking seive. Ax but they claim, you cannot take it with you, and you are enjoying our fruits of our labour and our servitude, you should but contribute to our current failure. To which I would say do you wish that I discharge my vassals (there were serfs in his time, paid - in land and 'keep' as long as they were the workers to the estate of the master under Russian serfdom') because as you would rob from me, you steal from them as well, and soon I can no longer support them, nor keep my estate - then where would you wish to turn ? The dialogue is from the first five pages. Read history, literature, study abroad - there is nothing new under the sun. The Russian Serfs were 'emancipated'.... with in a generation there was the Soviet uprising and the advent of Communism... a different brand of slavery to be sure. So surrender your car, opt out of your house, and move to Africa with the Peace Corps, when your tour is up- remain there. easy peasy. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
quite coddling the poor www.tinypallethouse.com seems to me you could build one of those of your own hand quite easily, sell off the car, walk to work, kill the electricity, and live as your ancestors did. the slavery is your own choice, quit coming to me for your solution, I don't qualify for any of your entitlements, why should I contribute to them ? | ||
| Fahren |
Start coddling everyone. Shut the IRS down. Get rid of the income tax. It's not, as the republicans and tea partiers have decided to claim, that the poor need to put a dollar in per year (thank you, Wacky Bachmann), or take a cut of $10 or $15 out of benefit checks. No, the fact that half of Americans pay no income tax is good news. It means that we are already halfway toward being able to shut down the IRS. Let's keep going! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Video chick is a waste of good oxygen. I would kill her and eat her, but I'm afraid I'd get stupid cow disease. | ||
| Aesquire |
So, Ft_...you are a follower of Ted Turner?  He's planning on staying on his Bison ranch and using well armed guards to slaughter the long pig he needs for diet variation. ( bison are low fat ) I admit he's not actually announced his intention to eat intruders, but that's typical of insane wannabe feudal overlords who obsess about cannibalism. | ||
| Aesquire |
The "bill gates wants depopulation through vaccines" video is even more fun. The title is a statement taken out of context, and actually unfair. The real gist is that draconian population control is needed to save the planet from global warming, and only a very few will be allowed to have access to vital resources. A common thought from the greenies. And despots throughout history. Some of them ( that want to keep on top of whatever blasted world remains when they are done exploiting it ) are quite rich. You don't think they got that rich by being nice guys? Do you? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
When the end comes, I'll eat the vegetarians first. The are easy to kill and low in fat. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you ever notice how none of the greenies are rushing out and committing suicide en masse to save the planet...... (its always the other guy that has to go ! ) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Wonder how many people died globally when we decided to make fuel out of food instead of selling it on the open market. The chronically tight food supply the world is now facing is driven by the cumulative effect of several well-established trends that are affecting both global demand and supply. On the demand side, the trends include the continuing addition of 70 million people per year to the earth’s population, the desire of some four billion people to move up the food chain and consume more grain-intensive livestock products, and the recent sharp acceleration in the U.S. use of grain to produce ethanol for cars. Since 2005, this last source of demand has raised the annual growth in world grain consumption from roughly 20 million tons to 50 million tons. Makes the greenies feel all warm inside knowing their E85 vehicle is starving someone in a third world country. | ||
| Fahren |
Ft, that is an accurate but incomplete global picture of the situation. It leaves out the manipulation of food and other commodities prices by the large investment firms who make their personal and corporate profit-taking by betting for and against market prices a higher and better pursuit than the well-being of their fellow man. Global food prices have been going through the roof, and there is a tipping point that we are starting to see, when food gets so expensive that social unrest is not far behind the hikes. | ||
| Fahren |
Dammit - all this time, I thought we were talking 'bout not cuddling the rich. Boy, am I confused now. What was the question? | ||
| Gregtonn |
When this whole thing began (during the Bush administration) someone asked me what I thought should be done. My reply was, "Let the markets and the economy take their haircut. It'll be tough but it will be over in a couple of years. This bailout and TARP crap will drag things out for many more years." If the government had left things alone it would have been over by now. Because of stupid decisions made during both administrations there is no end in sight. I hope someone can prove me wrong. G | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If the government had left things alone it would have been over by now. Absolutely! In fact, the same was true the last time around. In 1929. Progressives didn't learn the lessons. We all repeated them. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Nope, want to really f' an economy? Let the sociologists, academic 'professors', and largess bureaucrats monkey with what is a natural exchange of commodities, services, goods, capital and cash.... grey and black markets are right behind any geremandering away from pure market exchange. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
There will always be capitalism. In the zeal to make the financial and economic system completely without risk, you create a secondary market where grift is almost built in and guaranteed. It becomes so expensive to buy goods through regular channels, that people start having to buy through the black market. There are no protections there. | ||
| Blake |
Fahren, >>> the manipulation of food and other commodities prices by the large investment firms Do you have a shred of evidence to back up such an assertion, or do you just eagerly buy wholesale into anything that tends to demonize investors? Here's a news flash, the investment firms you are libeling are publicly traded, so you too can get in on the fix, if there is one. I don't see it. WAY too much competition. | ||
| Moxnix |
Commodity markets follow supply and demand. Too much of a commodity for the market, price goes down. Not enough, goes up. Stocks can be more easily manipulated. | ||
| Moxnix |
Subsidizing the growing of corn for the alcohol in fuel market makes animal feed corn and any product using corn as an ingredient more expensive with the final product going up in price. The market never lies to us. People selling investment products are NOT "the market." (Message edited by moxnix on August 31, 2011) (Message edited by moxnix on August 31, 2011) |
