| Author | Message | ||
     Trevd |
Is Harley being dragged into the modern era? http://cmgonline.com/news/2011/06/21/harley-patent s-liquid-cooled-big-twin-heads/?utm_source=feedbur ner&utm_medium=feed&utm_campaign=Feed%3A+cmgonline %2Fnews+%28CMG+News%29 | ||
| Sifo |
They might just manage to hide the radiators where they won't work.  | ||
| Gregtonn |
"...twin radiators and cooling fans hidden out of sight in the fairing lowers..." Side pods.  G | ||
| Mtjm2 |
They should put an air conditioned cab on it and call it what it is . An over priced TRACTOR . | ||
| Bob_thompson |
Its a gimmick in my estimation. Liquid cooled engines usually all have coolant passages in the cylinder area also. Much heat is generated in the piston skirt to the cylinder especially on the thrust side, I do believe, and to a greater extent with long stroke engines as the conrod angle is greater creating more friction. The reason I believe HD kept the cooling fins was "to keep the LOOK" Absurd. There could quite possibly be some improvment in emissions as they might be able to run a leaner burn engine. Good luck with that! HD only had one person who had "vision" and he's now building a modern expression of engineering at its finest, the 1190RS. For all those who like nostalgia I also have a vintage British 500 single I love to ride.......sometimes. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
meh, the Japaneses have been copying the looks of the HDs for decades and hiding the radiators well enough. I had a Kawi Vulcan VN800 in Silver with mag wheels - EVERYBODY thought it was a FatBoy. (I wasnt about to wait 5 years for one, and pay triple the cost !) Sold it for what I paid for it; to a guy that ... couldnt get a fatboy for three years and didnt want to pay HD prices | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
liquid cooled heads isnt new, Porsche did it for years, so how is it a gimmick? | ||
| Xb1125r |
so Harley Davidson is now 49 years behind all the manufacturers! | ||
| Slaughter |
Model T had liquid cooled heads. Let's just move along here. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
I am hoping HD comes up with a good solid, well performing liquid cooled engine. And soon. I much as I like bashing HD at times, I want to see them succeed going forward with their motorcycles. Not just marketing. In the end, it's still an american based company, employing americans. I'd hate to see that go away. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you mean like a new assembly line in India ?.... | ||
| Whisperstealth |
No, not really. But it's going to happen one way or the other. The plant in India is not supposed to take away any current american jobs. I'm hoping that is true, and would like to see the jobs that are here, at least stay here. If Harley is able to grow globally and has plants overseas that build bikes for the overseas market, I'm a little more "okay" with that. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
so Harley Davidson is now 49 years behind all the manufacturers! And yet almost all of the other manufacturers try their best to be like them. Hmmmmm | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
Hybrid- no the other want to look like harley. gotta give HD cred on marketing and honestly their product too. if the product was truly shit they wouldn't be selling(current economy notwithstanding) much like the AMC days they didn't sell many due to product failure and the marketing could only do so much before massive change occurred. it's good to see them do this. the restrictions mentioned int he article for emissions and noise, i am surprised they have made it this long without water in the motor. the physics and thermo dynamics are pretty intense for what they are asking of the engines these days | ||
| Kyrocket |
The Kaw. Vulcan 2053cc v-twin has liquid cooled heads but they didn't try to hide the radiator. Maybe other bikes have them too but the Vulcan is the only one I know about for sure. | ||
| Tpoppa |
There are more than a few cruisers that have liquid cooled heads. Nothing new. | ||
| 1324 |
Give HD credit on marketing? Maybe, but it's still funny. I'd prefer to call it lobbying. Yes, this is still relevant in today's market 25 years later. http://www.cato.org/pubs/pas/pa032.html | ||
| Kyrocket |
...and remember this isn't Harley's first attempt at water cooling. http://www.bikerenews.com/AntiqueBikes/CodeNameNov a.htm Wonder how things would be now if that had come about. Coulda, Shoulda, Woulda... | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
so i never knew about the HD Nova before. WOW!!!!!!!!!!!!! that would have been something really cool if they'd gone ahead with it. | ||
| Boogiman1981 |
wonder what if anything Erik had to do with it... looks like maybe a lot | ||
| Strokizator |
so Harley Davidson is now 49 years behind all the manufacturers! You mean such manufacturers as Victory & Moto Guzzi. Even BMW boxers and Triumph Bonnevilles, just to name a few, are air cooled. HD does make a water cooled VROD. Or was this just another harley bashing thread? If so, carry on. | ||
| 1324 |
Ducati makes air-cooled twins, as well. I still wouldn't put Ducati/BMW/Triumph and HD in the same class, technically speaking. | ||
| Sifo |
Ducati makes air-cooled twins, as well. I still wouldn't put Ducati/BMW/Triumph and HD in the same class, technically speaking. Good point but... I think it's worth understanding that HD isn't trying to be in the same class as Ducati or BMW. Maybe somewhat the class of some of Triumphs air cooled bikes. I'm actually kind of impressed with HD's ability to keep fairly true to the form of their old bikes. Looked at in that light I see this as a pretty innovative solution to conflicting engineering demands. If you don't like it, don't buy it. I don't think I will. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
Stroki -  good post bud | ||
| Strato9r |
It makes total sense that they would pursue this line of development. It allows them to use a much of the current tooling a possible. The big 45 degree V-Twin is a cool thing; this type of design evolution would allow it to do what it already does really well even more efficiently, giving even more bang for the buck. Most traditional Harley buyers really dont want an engine that has to be revved, so the existing, reliable bottom end and pushrod valvetrain designs can be retained, even if more valves are added to exploit the benefits of a liquid cooled combustion chamber. BMW's boxer twins will be liquid cooled starting in 2013. It is a pretty dramatic re-design, addressing traditional boxer twin issues like crankcase volume, intake and exhaust port placement, moving to a wet, multi-disc clutch, and a new transmission. The engine is actually more compact than the air cooled version, and it still has a nicely executed finned surface on the heads and cylinders. The really cool thing is that it totally looks like a BMW opposed twin; same architectural sensibilities. I think that for H-D to do such a ground-up redesign on the most iconic part of it's character would carry considerably greater risk, as the lineage of that engine that can be drawn back like a family tree. The Sportster (then XB) engine can trace it's development back to the four cam flatheads of the late twenties. There is something to be said about things that dont need to be done differently than they were fifty or sixty years ago. Sales of Fender Telecasters and Bassman amplifiers will confirm that. I hope this design works out for them, it would be cool to see a pushrod Big Twin make 130 hp without breaking a sweat. (ok, that will be the Screaming Eagle version) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
for all the pomp and rhetoric about 'traditional' styling and iconic looks. HD TOTALLY blew the 5oth Year Anniversary of the Sportster. but then again I am biased. Mine  the original  what did HD do to celebrate the milestone?... gold faced stickie back emblems .... weee. | ||
| Gohot |
Too bad Harleys in such bad straights. Ya gotta get over Buells demise, it looks it was just the first in many steps to try to stay afloat as a company. Some may want revenge for loseing the Buell marque, but would a world with out HD's be better? I don't think so. It will be interesting to see how they crawl into the 20th century with the twins, and keep the somewhat classic pushrod v motor... | ||
| Cataract2 |
Go, there's still Victory and that brand seems to be doing just fine. If HD would pull their collective heads out of their rears they may do better. | ||
| Nobuell |
Like many, I was upset with HD for dropping Buell. I got over it. I have been able to get my parts with no issues and would rather HD stick around so parts will not become an issue. But mainly I would like to see HD get past the bean counter mentality and become a motorcycle company again. I believe that HD has the talent to do good things if the management would get out of the way. I may be wrong but I am an optimist. Hopefully they will get back to their racing roots and have a real diversified offering. Did I mention that I am an optimist? | ||
| Crusty |
Before you spout about how fine Victory is doing, you should check how many motorcycles they sold last year, compared to how many bikes H-D sold. And weren't Victory the folks who were bragging how much power their bikes made compared to Harley; until they had to choke their intake and exhaust to meet Federal regs? Have they figured out how to build a transmission that shifts yet? The three different Victories that I took Demo rides on over a several year spread were the worst shifting motorcycles I've ever ridden. | ||
| Cataract2 |
No, HD is back to their racing roots. They're racing the XB1200....against themselves. Trust me, I'm over the Buell thing being I've seen what Erik Buell Racing has come out with and am awaiting to see what they come with next. But as for HD, well, I've seen what they think and quite frankly. I'm the age group they should be working to attract and they're failing pretty bad. | ||
| Kuuud |
Next HD is another parts bin special. FLD . Dyna with Fat Boy front end. Coming out next month with the 2012's/ | ||
| Joshinga |
I'm gonna have to agree with crusty on this one. I took a tech job at a Victory dealer around the 06-07 time frame and the first time I shifted into gear I thought it broke the transmission. Then I discovered it was normal for them to sound like the cog was being set in place with a sledge hammer. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
I am up on LinkedIN for networking and pot stirring.... HD just Hired a 'Government Regulations Liaison' ... smells of hope and change for bailout, not anything new from a marketing - styling - engineering departments. I expect a new round of 'protectionism' just around the corner. |
