| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
I agree. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
could be why they are organizing 2500-3600 UNIFORMed Officer Cadre to 'administer' the new healthcare ...... Yep, its in the BiLL! | ||
| Ducbsa |
The Rights that the Progressives want are paid for by someone else. The Rights the Founding Fathers acknowledged are inherent in us as free people. | ||
| Buellkowski |
A poor analogy, IMO. "Slavery" implies forced labor without compensation. Who is advocating that healthcare workers & support staff be compelled to work for free? By Rand's analogy, the right to vote in legislative elections organized and paid for by taxpayers is also "slavery." | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
What do you call forcibly taking the product of someone's labor? Better yet, what do you call laboring without the hope of being paid for your labor? I have several physician friends who have returned to work to secure MBAs. They expect the physician market to become very uncompetitive very soon. Under the progressive model, need is the new currency. Need is never ending. As long as there is need, confiscation of capital can be continually justified and expanded. There will ALWAYS be poor people. There will ALWAYS be people without. Confiscation and redistribution of the product of the labor of others only guarantees that more people will join the need class and leave the producer class. No where in the Constitution do the needs of person A supersede the rights of person B. Under progressivism, the needs of person A ALWAYS supersede the rights of person B. All hail the recipient class. | ||
| Kenm123t |
BUELL KOWSKI youll be working for nothing but your healthcare. Its like the deal the mine owners had before the labor laws were passed You work and the taxes and or prices at the company store exceed or equal what you make = Slavery and was Illegal till the liberal demon progs started changing things | ||
| Aesquire |
Who is advocating that healthcare workers & support staff be compelled to work for free? Not for free. For whatever they wish to pay you. ( current trends in socialized medicine in the US is to pay them less than they do now.... that's part of the ongoing lie about how Pelosicare will save money. Pay the doctor less. ) Don't know what you do for a living. Say you're a burger dude at the yellow arches. As of tomorrow, you have to go to work for whatever pay the company feels like giving you, and that will change with no input from you at the whim of the Company. Don't like it? too bad, you are not allowed to take another job. You disobeyed the Company, so you get blacklisted. ( I've worked at the Yellow arches. you take whatever pay you can get, they can change your pay without notice, BUT you don't have to work for them. Unlike doctors ) Since in this case the Company is actually the Secretary of a government agency, who has under Pelosicare dictatorial powers, ( and an armed force to do his bidding, also Under Pelosicare ) they can make it stick. Work for what they want to pay you, or prison. If they WILL put you in prison for not buying an insurance plan, what will they do do people who don't want to be slaves? Traditionally one of our political parties hangs, shoots, burns crosses and crucifies those not fond of slavery. Extra credit if you can tell me which one. ( hint: they now claim anyone who disagrees with them is racist, and had a Grand Kegel of the Klu Klux Klan as Senator for many years into the 21st century. ) | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Take a look at the billed rate versus compensation rate for Medicaid, Medicare, and you will see why DROVES of doctors are refusing to accept new patients, opting out of accepting CMS, going to Cash only parameters and choosing other career tracks besides Family Medicine or ER Physician - that slack is being picked up by nurses... who are billed even less .... it is a matter of time when a new 14MILLION new subscribers hit the roles ... this is your warn notice that it doesnt get any better because of the the REFORM .... Besides since 1986 Hospitals and ER Doctors have been REQUIRED to provide care without consideration of payment under EMTALA legislation.... and in most cases; indeed they are NOT compensated for that care. I take it you havent read the bill, dont work in insurance, the medical field, or own your own business and have to provide medical insurance to your employees.... or am I wrong ? | ||
| Buellkowski |
What do you call forcibly taking the product of someone's labor? All of it = slavery Some of it = theft Some of it by legislative authority = taxation I do not disagree that The Market will see adjustments in the supply and/or compensation of healthcare professionals. But unlike the "slavery" Dr. Rand alleges, healthcare professionals will not be "compelled" to provide their services and will always have the freedom to seek the employment situations that best suit their individual objectives. Slaves don't get to lobby and choose. I'm just saying it's a poor analogy. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The founders felt that this kind of government intrusion equated EXACTLY to slavery. | ||
| Aesquire |
They've been working in Canada to eliminate the option of going to a private doctor, and paying yourself. Not sure what level of weirdness they're at today. I have philosophical issues with socialized medicine, that are a whole different argument to the observation that such systems have intrinsic failure modes. If something is free, ( to the individual ) it gets overused and has to be rationed. If you limit payment for a job/service, the job/service will have fewer people willing to do it. That will limit availability and quality of care. There is little incentive to keep people alive in a system whose purpose becomes limiting costs. Not doing medicine. Socialized medicine tends to be a monopoly, Here the drug companies have great incentive to invent new drugs to take care of old & sick people. It makes lots of money. Socialized medicine has a disincentive to spend more on old folk. Simple math. ( no morality ) If you can show me a system that avoids these economic certainties, I'd be interested. It sure as heck isn't anything Congress passed in the last decade. Pelosicare may have as it's prime purpose the elimination of competing "insurance" options to get a monopoly, using Cloward-Piven tactics. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Cloward%E2%80%93Piven _strategy Or, it could just be a lobbied to the fourth circle of hell, and a massive make politicians rich clusterfrack that will screw the folk too poor to bribe politicians ( us ) as usual. Your choice. I assume Malice AND Incompetence. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Vets ready make more than your doctor now! Looks like we going back to the Farm days when the Vet delivered the calfs and the kids. | ||
| Kenm123t |
The pro choice crowd whines about people controlling their bodies. What till the new reality of Obama care sinks in. Oh well the Fabian Socialists will love it. Kid has big ears kill it not worth the cost to pin them back. Any GOOD Mother would kill the child herself. | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Keep in mind folks that we now work over 5 months EVERY year for the government. Thats how long it takes the average household to pay their Fed, State and local tax bill. If it's not slavery, its at least indentured servitude. | ||
| Blake |
Bruce (Ducbsa), >>> The Rights that the Progressives want are paid for by someone else. The Rights the Founding Fathers acknowledged are inherent in us as free people. Excellent distillation of the core issue dividing left and right. I'll be using that a lot. Thanks.  | ||
| Kilroy |
Leftist ideals are SO awesome, that they have to be imposed on you. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Each individual has ZERO obligation to society but what they VOLUNTARILY elect to take upon themselves. Charity imposed at the hands of government is tyranny even if the intentions are righteous. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Jeremy the beginning of cruelty is kindness | ||
| Davegess |
You guys are so funny | ||
| Danger_dave |
See Dave - this is why Dudeism is the perfect dogma for the internet. You just say 'Well. like, that's your opinion, Man' and it's even funnier. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
you are entitled to whatever opinion you want, just keep your damn fingers off of my stack of green backs, and quit finding new ways to abscond with the ones I do get. "If I knew for a certainty that a man was coming to my house with the conscious design of doing me good, I should run for my life." Henry David Thoreau It was true 150 years ago, doubly so now. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Agreed Slick. YOU want to be benevolent, devote YOUR life to the service of others, give up all YOUR worldly possessions to aid the needy? Great! Have at it! Admirable intentions! Just don't do it with the work of MY hands and the product of MY labor. It isn't benevolence if it comes at the point of a gun. It's tyranny. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Yeah - and complaining about it on an obscure web site for a defunct motorcycle brand is sure to kick some goals. So much angst, creative energy, and time spent pounding the keyboards could be spent where it's likely to get some traction dontchathink. But hey - that's just my opinion. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You assume this is my only outlet of action. It is merely my outlet of present activity. | ||
| Danger_dave |
I have no desire to contemplate your outlets thanks. And you can tell that to your congressman! | ||
| Danger_dave |
I reckon Social media locally (NZ) has attained the 80-20 rule. 80% of it is complaining about something. Be interesting to know wat it is in here. Not that bad cause Glitch is silly. | ||
| Blake |
Education is a good thing. "If you believe in the right to health care, you are believing in basically the use of force to conscript someone to do your bidding." Test that statement. See what happens when a hospital emergency room refuses to treat someone claiming to have an urgent care requirement. The authorities will be all over that hospital forcing them to provide services for no pay. Thus it is already law that some must provide services without expectation of just compensation. The result is that the hospital passes the cost on to the rest of us, so in truth, all of us are conscripted. The new gov't health care is just stepping that up another notch, bypassing the hospitals and going directly to the source of revenue, the productive citizens of America. Moochers and looters unite in the name of social justice (forcing productive folks to pay for the well-being of moochers and looters). | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If I had attended 4 years of undergraduate school, 3-4 years of medical school, 2-3 years as a resident, a year or two in fellowship all in order to secure for myself an income and livelihood of a particular level and then had the prospects of that income and livelihood taken away, I'd feel like a theft had been committed. Telling someone what they can make, where and with whom they must work, and the type of work they must do if not slavery is at least very close to committing them to being a share cropper. Why continue to work as a physician when you could make more money doing something else? Why enter the medical profession when you could make more money with less time spent in training and preparation doing something else? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Stolen from Blake: Not yours to give -- Colonel Davy Crockett Proud to live in the state he represented. I've always believed Tennessee to be the upper peninsula of Texas. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Moochers and looters unite in the name of social justice (forcing productive folks to pay for the well-being of moochers and looters). Our system of government is predicated upon a system of checks and balances. What is the check and balance between those who receive benefits without paying for them voting for those promising to provide the most free benefits? |
