| Author | Message | ||
     Hughlysses |
The Cherohola is the real ride out there, you can see perfectly through most turns, and it has tons of places to pull over and let people by. OTOH- Tailofthedragon.com claims there are far more fatalities on the Cherohala than the Dragon. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
OTOH- Tailofthedragon.com claims there are far more fatalities on the Cherohala than the Dragon. If true (which I dont doubt) the adage, speed kills, applies perfectly. It wouldn't surprise me if the number of wrecks on the Cherohala were less than 20% of the number on the Dragon. | ||
| Jb2 |
Looking at the guy's line through the edge of the ditch it looks like he swung too wide on the exit of the previous corner and bit the edge of the road. It could happen to anyone. To tell you the truth I've done it myself when I didn't know that Killboy was waiting around the corner. When I looked back at what was going on I almost went wide and off the road. It could be any number of things and possibly over riding wasn't the culprit. For as much as I like to kick a little dirt towards Harley riders it's always been in fun. The other reward is Ferris almost always comes to their defense.  Good on him, we need a few pirates in our crew.  Now here's something to take the edge off and bring us all back to the middle. Sunday they transported 2 - 22' beams to be a part of the 911 Memorial in Indy. As you might well expect the Patriot Guard showed up in force. They estimated 10,000 motorcycles in attendance. I'd have to do a head count for myself to believe it but after watching this video for 10 minutes it's probably not too far off. Most of them are... um... Harley riders. Effin Pirates all! <http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=r9UfYGUZiXg> (Message edited by jb2 on April 12, 2011) | ||
| Court |
>>>Wasn't trying to piss you, or anyone else, off, by taking you to task on your original "dresser" comment Not in the least . . . the simple, pure physics, heart of the matter is that if you could "choose your weapon" and were about to be launched into that turn under precisely the same conditions as that fellow . . the dresser would be your last choice. The fact that most of the Dragon's victims is akin to the fact that most folks who die in Canada are Canadians . . that's what's primarily there. These discussions tend to be skewed by the occasional presence, and you'd sure rank among their number, of folks who ride dressers with above average skills. I spent 4 years traveling and riding with two fellows who were primary instructors in the Motor Officers Training Course and learned long ago . . regardless of what I was riding, to not assume that my choice of weapon, by necessity, favored me in any contest. I spent hundreds of hours hiding in the California deserts with Joe Boyd swapping test bikes and it took me about 9 minutes to learn it was "the Indian not the arrow" . . I still thank him for both the humility and wisdom I took from those days. Bottom line is that no one . . regardless of what they are riding . . should be riding at a level that they can not maintain control. It is . . quite frankly . . STUPID. For what it's worth . . it's not limited to bikes . . I have some wonderful photos of one of our Porsche gatherings and a gorgeous white car folded in half after a short flight, call it airborn for about 50', and a landing against an immobile tree. Greater testimony for German engineering than American driving or judgement. | ||
| Macbuell |
I rode the Dragon for a weekend a few years ago. I didn't really care for it. Too many decreasing radius and off camber turns and too many idiots. I got my T-shirt though ... the wife wears it to sleep in. I enjoyed the Cherohala Skyway loop and the great roads surrounding the Dragon much, much better. (Message edited by macbuell on April 12, 2011) | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I don't expect you to pull over on a curve the instant I appear in your rear view mirror, but if I am right behind you for 5 miles while you pass 10 scenic turnouts and take every turn at 20mph below the speed limit, maybe it's time for you to stop for a smoke or something. Reep, agree 100%. I pride myself on making it easy (and safe) for faster riders to get by, and try to always give a little "courtesy" wave as they pass if conditions allow. I figure that what goes around comes around, and maybe extending this courtesy to someone will increase the odds of them paying it forward at some point in the future. The Road King loves the Cherohala Skyway. FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
The other reward is Ferris almost always comes to their defense. JB2, I'm just so frikkin' easy. ...the simple, pure physics, heart of the matter is that if you could "choose your weapon" and were about to be launched into that turn under precisely the same conditions as that fellow . . the dresser would be your last choice. If I were trying to "win" something? Sure, give me an 1125R and I'll be aiming for the top spot on the box. If I'm just trying to "enjoy" the ride? I'll take my Road King, wring it for all it's worth (within mine and the bike's limits, natch), and take great glee in opening a few jaundiced eyeballs along the way. The fact that most of the Dragon's victims [are sportbike riders] is akin to the fact that most folks who die in Canada are Canadians . . that's what's primarily there. Disagree. Your comment would lead me to believe you feel the "idiot ratio" is exactly the same between sportbike riders and dresser riders. I couldn't disagree more strongly. I rode the Dragon for a weekend a few years ago. I didn't really care for it. Too many decreasing radius and off camber turns and too many idiots. I LOVE the Dragon for the decreasing-radius and off-camber turns, but agree about the idiots. And I'd be willing to bet that 99% of the idiots you saw there were on sportbikes. FB | ||
| Davefl |
I passed a few dressers last time I was at the gap. http://www.photoreflect.com/store/Orderpage.aspx?p i=04RK009M030715&po=9&a=377881&fip=1 | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
What were you riding? | ||
| Davefl |
Vespa. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Um, cool. | ||
| Davefl |
I left them in a trail of blue smoke  I should not have been able to pass them but as it has been said it is the indian not the arrow. | ||
| 86129squids |
Very interesting thread, especially since the Dragon is essentially in my backyard... I'd lived in the Knoxville area for about 10 years before I discovered Deal's Gap- "learned" it on an old BMW R65. (This may have been before Killboy's time, but now that I'm thinking about it, I'd love to have a photo of self bombing through on that old bike...) Over the past several years I've pretty much given up the Dragon unless it's late fall, winter, or just before spring. When the leaves are down, one can see the best for all the sightlines- and most importantly, what I call "the multiplication of variables" is at the lowest, provided the roads are clean. The Cherohala does net more fatalities, due to its higher speeds and remoteness- as much as I enjoy it, I'm as wary there as on the Dragon- 11 miles vs. 40-50, whilst going much faster. Someone mentioned, as a plus, that there are many turnoffs on the Cherohala- IMHO these can be VERY dangerous due to their placement and the nature of the looky-loos that use them. There are spots where, due to the beauty of a particular view, you'll find folks just traipsing along the side of the road with a camera- look out there!! The Dragon just last year got a series of well-placed and well-made pull offs, which in theory should help traffic there quite a bit... All that said, I'm more and more appreciative of the rest of the great riding roads around my home... Any of you good peeps passing thru, holler if you want me to show you around. The ride objective is to roll all day, getting back home safely to park the bikes in the sunset, crack open a cold one to toast one another and the day, and plan to do it again the next day...  | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
The ride objective is to roll all day, getting back home safely to park the bikes in the sunset, crack open a cold one to toast one another and the day, and plan to do it again the next day... Nice.  | ||
| Jaimec |
I'm going to agree with Court on this one. "Idiocy" isn't just excessive speed. I've seen my fair share of touring riders (luxo-tourers of ANY brand) doing their fair share of stupid things too. Not all of them occur at high speed. Just standing on Canada Street in Lake George during Americade is enough to make this MSF RiderCoach CRINGE more often than not. | ||
| Glitch |
Getting comfortable on the front porch after a Big Ass Burger at T.W.O (RIP) we wait, we watch. What are we waiting on? The signal to go out riding. What's the signal? Someone dumping it coming into T.W.O, it happened every day, without fail. I'd say it's a motorcycle rider 100% of the time. Now whether it's plastic, chrome, aluminium, or carbon fiber that hits the most is anyone's guess. I've seen 'em all go down. While out riding, it's the same, and you can usually pick the bike rider that's next. It has little to do with the bike. When it comes to dumping it, riding it, laying it down, tucking it, dragging it, ripping it up, whatever, it is The Indian, not necessarily the arrow. | ||
| Barker |
Davefl, I think that was me behind you on the red Niner.   | ||
| Davefl |
It could have been. Well rode bikes had no trouble getting around us. I remember several rolling roadblocks that day, as well as a bunch of us on vintage scoots. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I'm going to agree with Court on this one. "Idiocy" isn't just excessive speed. I'm not an MSF RiderCoach, so maybe I should just stick to giving U4euh and Tonya a hand, but........... ........what part of Court's comment about dressers on the Dragon do you agree with? The stuff you've seen while standing on Canada Street in Lake George during Americade, has any of this stuff ultimately required a life flight or a body bag for the riders in question? I agree with Glitch: Anyone can go down. I also stand by my contentions that riding a dresser on the Dragon, perhaps even aggressively, does not automatically make one a fool, and the Dragon doesn't have a Tree of Shame or the heavy police presence because of dresser riders. FB | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
I just conducted an exhausting scientific study:       Feel free to draw your own conclusions. FB | ||
| Glitch |
I think all the folks that ride motorcycles get what they deserve. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
FB, you sold me.....that said, what he heck is up with the bikes in the first two pictures? | ||
| Drkside79 |
Can someone explain to me the point of the uber ugly giant flat rear tire if you aren't drag racing in a straight line? | ||
| Jaimec |
Jerry, you no read so good. You implied there were more idiots on sport bikes than dressers. I was agreeing with Court... the only reason you see more sport bikes crashed on the dragon is because there are more sport bikes on the dragon... but "Idiocy" has nothing to do with motorcycle choice, and being an "Idiot" doesn't necessarily imply just excessive speed. There are plenty of idiotic things riders can do that have NOTHING to do with speed. My choice of Americade was to point out that you can see plenty of slow moving, dresser riders doing things I find equally as idiotic as riding above your head on a sportbike. There are more touring bike accidents in Lake George than any other type. Why? Because there are more touring bikes there than any other type. If you go to Bike Week in Daytona, there will be more accident involved Harleys than any other type. Why? Because the majority of bikes at Bike Week are Harleys. | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
took me a second to put the first pics together - that rules! | ||
| Hybridmomentspass |
"Can someone explain to me the point of the uber ugly giant flat rear tire if you aren't drag racing in a straight line?" Drag racers dont use those sorts of tires,please dont associate us with THAT sort of thing | ||
| Drkside79 |
>>>Drag racers dont use those sorts of tires,please dont associate us with THAT sort of thing Sorry i really have no idea what those ugly ass things are used for. I just assumed that more surface area would give more bite hence the drag racing connection. No offense intended. (Message edited by drkside79 on April 12, 2011) | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Jerry, you no read so good. Jaimec, you no read so good. (You do realize that Blake has a copyright on that phrase, right?) As a refresher, here's my original post on this thread, in response to Court's original post on this thread. The blue text is a snip from Court's post: The Dragon on a Dresser . . . . there's one born every minute. Court, with all due respect: - The Tree of Shame at the Dragon is littered with sportbike parts, not dresser parts. - The Tennessee Highway Patrol infests the Dragon during the season on account of all the sportbike riders leaving in helicopters and body bags over the years, not dresser riders. A dresser will handle the Dragon just fine. A sportbike ought to be able to, too, but you'd never know it from the mess they've made of the place. Best, FB Court, IMO, took a shot at dresser riders in his comment above. No big deal, but I took the time to explain a differing viewpoint, based on what I've seen with my own eyes at the Dragon. Are you arguing that whether or not you're an idiot has nothing to do with the brand or style of motor you ride? If so, I couldn't agree more. My contentions still stand: - There is nothing inherently wrong with riding a dresser, even aggressively, on the Dragon. - The Tree of Shame is littered with sportbike parts NOT because more sportbikes ride the Dragon than dressers (which may or may not be true), but because MANY of the sportbike riders who ride the Dragon ride like idiots, while MOST of the dresser riders who ride the Dragon don't. No, I can't prove this. - Finally, there would be no po-po presence at the Dragon if it weren't for idiot sportbike riders. I can't prove this one either, but you and I both know it's true. BTW, you started this thread, with a pic of a hapless Harley rider going off road. Why? Why not the moron with the fat-tired sportbike who couldn't bend his effed-up motorcycle around the corner, or the dude on the Spyder who's completely over into the oncoming lane, or the guy with the tank-top off hanging off like's he's the second coming of Nicky Hayden? Why showcase the Harley rider? FB | ||
| Glitch |
Can someone explain to me the point of the uber ugly giant flat rear tire if you aren't drag racing in a straight line? Looks like it may just help him get out of that ditch  Why showcase the Harley rider? I can't prove it, but I think we all know | ||
| Froggy |
Because its a hilarious looking pic I skimmed through the first few pages of the killboy highlights, I see lots of idiots, some on sportbikes, some on trikes, some on cruisers, and even a yellow mustang that had all 4 wheels on the wrong side of the road. If you look far enough back in the highlights, you will find me on my CR almost crossing the double yellow, coming around the turn and seeing him sitting there threw me off a little bit. But at least I didn't end up doing a cartwheel down the road |
