| Author | Message | ||
     Cowboy |
I can remember whem Beirut (early 70's) was a place for R&R I have met several movie stars there when Hollywood made a lot of movies there.They had great hotels there and best intertainment anywhere. So I have to say If we dont pay attention to what is going on around us we could and will feel the sting of that heathern Religen sooner or later. | ||
| Blake |
Mox nailed it... >>> Anyway, Beirut really was a cosmopolitan city, "The Paris of the Mediterranean," before the troubles came. The biography of a witness/victim of what the islamists subjected upon Lebanon is shocking to read. Truth sometimes is. Why isn't it common knowledge? Why are so many suckered by the lies and deceit of the islamists, communists, and tyrants? I'm always astounding at what some are willing to believe against their own nation as peddled by our enemies. And I cannot reject more strongly the notion that because of some misguided, or even wrong/hurtful policy in our past, we must be held impotent against evil today. That is just ludicrous to me. Their is no moral equivalence between freedom and brutal oppression. It is not a free election when thugs threaten to torture and kill your family should you fail to vote for their man. | ||
| Blake |
Meant to include a link Survivor of Lebanese Jihad Shares Her Story From one review... Brigitte Gabriel was born to a 54-year-old Lebanese Christian woman who had had no other children. This unusual birth communicated to Gabriel that she had been born for a higher purpose, and she is determined to fulfill that purpose. | ||
| Xdigitalx |
My next dog will be all black or as close to black as possible. | ||
| Moxnix |
Dennis Hopper: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4nxMrRXHqpo&feature =related | ||
| Reindog |
The young spuds here probably don't remember "The Hippie Highway" In the 70's, one could ride a motorcycle from Turkey to Afghanistan via Iraq and Iran and partake of the agricultural products with little ooncern for safety. The Religion of Peace has changed all that. Getting stoned means something entirely different now. Religious fundamentalism sucks whether it be Islamo-fascism or 14th century Christianity. | ||
| Moxnix |
Thank you for bringing up those pesky folk from 500 years ago whose aberrant behavior is always tossed out as a sop against Christianity. (Message edited by moxnix on January 27, 2011) | ||
| Reindog |
Cardinal Biggles! Bring out the Comfy Chair!!!! | ||
| Fast1075 |
Oh NO!!! NOT THE COMFY CHAIR!!!  | ||
| Blake |
>>> Religious fundamentalism sucks Explain to me how the Baptist churches in Kilgore, Texas suck for holding to their beliefs. They are religious fundamentalists as I understand the meaning of the term. Don't fall victim to those who desperately seek to equate islamism to fundamentalist Christians. Christianity cannot escape the teachings of Christ (golden rule, love enemies) any more than islamism can escape the mandates of mohomad (kill Jews, spread by the sword, kill apostates). | ||
| Aesquire |
Here I have to argue with you, Blake. Churches can easily escape the teachings of Christ. Spin, outright lies, massive hatred and behavior as vile as protesting at a funeral to get attention, and invite attacks to promote lawsuits.... Ooops. You wrote "Christianity cannot escape.." not Churches. Never mind.  Of course, federally mandated tolerance demand I say that "not all muslims are murderous thugs full of hate for children and women". I see no such regulation for you Christians, though. | ||
| Blake |
No argument from me that bad or misguided folks abuse and exploit the Christian religion for evil. Nice that you noticed the deliberate choice of word there.  I'm about to think Tom is ignoring me. I may go pour myself a Scotch and curse him.  | ||
| Trojan |
Turned out that he was Egyptian and was very thankful for America's efforts towards freedom and prosperity in his homeland. Obviously he hasn't been watching the world news this week. Riots across Egypt protesting aginst what has been a 30+ year dictatorship opressing dissent and opposition (supported by succesive US and UK governments). BUT, almost without exception, all terrorists are Muslims. Very very wrong! What about Basque separatists (Catholics last time I looked), Irish 'nationalists' (not many muslilms there either), and countless other nationalist, separatist or just plain anarchist groups right across the world. Some may happen to be muslim but certainly not all. Our governments would of course have us believe that islam is to blame for the worlds ills, but the vast majority of islamic peoples disgree with jihadist groups and fundamentalism just as most of us disagree with fundamentalist Christians. Do you think that the problems in Palestine have more to do with the Koran & Lebanon then with Israeli incursions and arguments over land and property? The big enemy worldwide is intolerance and ignorance rather than any individual religion. | ||
| Aesquire |
Do you think that the problems in Palestine have more to do with the Koran & Lebanon then with Israeli incursions and arguments over land and property? No. More to do with the surrounding Arab nations exploiting the situation for war and cheap labor. The "Land & Property" thing is bogus. Israel was created out of whole cloth, as was Syria, Jordan, etc. Nations that did not exist until England ( and the competing colonial powers) drew them on a map. Then redrew them to suit their own ambition for power. Most of the land that Israel took in battle was already "theirs" by U.N. mandate, then stolen. The "Palestine people/refugees" were also a creation of the Arab states and their ongoing war against Israel, which IS related to the Koran and worldly ambition, greed and hatred. | ||
| Trojan |
The "Land & Property" thing is bogus. Israel was created out of whole cloth, as was Syria, Jordan, etc. Not entirely true. The state of Israel was effectively 'created' by the Balfour Declaration of 1917 which, in a private letter to Lord Rothschild (a financier) from Arthur Balfour, it was declared that the British government had 'sympathy with Jewish Zionist aspirations' and that "His Majesty's Government view with favour the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, and will use their best endeavours to facilitate the achievement of this object, it being clearly understood that nothing shall be done which may prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country." Arthur Koestler later wrote that in the Balfour declaration "one nation solemnly promised to a second nation the country of a third." More than that, the country was still part of the Empire of a fourth, namely Turkey. Palestine was created as a country following WWI, but it already existed as Palestine before the British decided to give it away. However Palestine had existed in some state or another for hundreds of years and has been fought over since the first millenium by Christians, Mulsims and Jews. Britain never had the right to promise anything and had nothing to give the natives of Palestine in return for giving away their land to someone else. Any vague hope that the native population of a small and poor country would accept the influx of millions of immigrants (regardless of faith or creed) was niaive in the extreme. Britain tried to limit immigration to israel both during and following WWII because by that time people realised how niaive the original declaration had been. Eventually after WWII this lead to virtual war between Britain and Israeli settlers in order to establish the state of Israel. Since that time we (The west) have been at pains to support the Israeli state almost at all costs, and have tended to ignore the plight of the Palestinians and Lebonese people. A simplistic view perhaps, but I don't see any exploitation by surrounding Arab countries for cheap labour (nobody can leave Palestine to work outside even if they wanted to!) The "Palestine people/refugees" were also a creation of the Arab states The Palestinian people were there for thousands of years before Israel existed. It really doesn't matter which religion they belong to, but simply that one part of the population is trying to evict the other by force. It is little wonder that the Palestinians have unfortunately become radicalised over the years . Like I said , a little tolerance would go a long way. | ||
| Moxnix |
I love reviewing politics when the players are long dead: Sykes-Picot Agreement of 1915 on the division of the Ottoman Empire, Balfour Declaration of 1917, Franco-British Boundary Agreement of 1920, and the British Mandate For Palistine. The preamble of the mandate declared: Whereas the Principal Allied Powers have also agreed that the Mandatory should be responsible for putting into effect the declaration originally made on November 2nd, 1917, by the Government of His Britannic Majesty, and adopted by the said Powers, in favour of the establishment in Palestine of a national home for the Jewish people, it being clearly understood that nothing should be done which might prejudice the civil and religious rights of existing non-Jewish communities in Palestine, or the rights and political status enjoyed by Jews in any other country. | ||
| Reindog |
Today's events in Cairo are reminiscent of the 1979 Iranian Revolution. The Shah was demonized as an oppressor and overthrown while Khomeini was blindly applauded by Toadies in the West. Look what stepped in his place. The world is not a better place as a result of the Fascist Cult called Islam. Egypt is an ally of the United States and Israel. Are you looking forward to a Radical Islamist Egyptian government? If you are, then YOU are no friend of mine and you are my enemy. Israel is the center of democracy and progressivism surrounded by a sea of feudal, intolerant thought. Are you looking forward to the destruction of Israel? If you are, then YOU are no friend of mine and you are my enemy. Open up your eyes and THINK. | ||
| Two_seasons |
The intolerant and ignorant amongst us more than likely drive a car with the bumper sticker "coexist" affixed to it. However you want to spin terrorist actions, the facts support my argument. Those like you think anarchy is a form of protest. Fact is that anarchy is the tearing down of societal mores for control and power. If the Islamic faith abhors all the bloodshed and violence around the world, why do we hear nothing but crickets chirping after another jihadist attack? For all you bleeding hearts---name the top ten positive human events/advances that the Muslims have championed/led over the last two millenia---anybody. | ||
| Moxnix |
Egypt, Tunisia, majority Shia stretching across North Africa, the Shia Muslim Brotherhood financed by Shia Iran. Huh, prolly no connection at all . . . . | ||
| Swampy |
Religious fundamentalism sucks I have read the koran and it is a book that advocates killing non-conformists, you can't excape it. The Bible on the other hand does not in the New Testament. In my journey through Christianity I have been a "Religious fundamentalist" and I did suck. Suckered in by a need to be accepted by the group, and holding some pretty scary and crazy convictions that were NOT Christian nor would I have come to the conclusion that they were good or correct, but I adopted them simply because I failed to think for myself. For that, I am truley sorry and I ask your forgiveness. Now I simply suck on my own accord and am very happy. However since the discussion has been moving to the subject of force, I would like to contribute. As countrys come and go, due to take overs or upheavels, we are witnessing one group of people who in recent history, by force, return/inhabit their land. This was done with a series of Citizen Army events. They drove non-isrelies out to establish and protect their statehood. We as Americans are in the same predicament, we are being invaded by non-Americans. It seems like an innocous invasion, somewhat peaceful, for now, but as Americans we must remain watchful for enemies of our way of life. It seems our government is not concerned or taking the threat seriously, but it is draining our socio-economic structure, and bringing damage to our country and our wealth, in a sense "Stealing our Statehood" This is disturbing because these changes of "ownership" occur with violence, and we are the most powerful nation, yet we are being lulled into complacency by being assured that everything is all right and to think other wise brands you worse than the problem. | ||
| Blake |
Matt, >>> the vast majority of islamic peoples disagree with jihadist groups and fundamentalism just as most of us disagree with fundamentalist Christians. Do you have any clue how unbelievably offensive that kind of bogus moral equivalence is to Christians? What exactly is a "fundamentalist Christian" anyway? I'll tell you what it is in my view. It is a contrived whipping post for people too cowardly or too foolish to unequivocally oppose evil in the world. Obviously you are no coward. I think you've been fooled, and understandably so, by the deceivers in our popular media/culture. A Christian believes Jesus and his teachings as recorded in the New Testament. The rest is details. | ||
| Blake |
Just want to comment further that I really appreciate the history some are sharing here. Knowledge is good! So thanks Matt, Tom, Karl, Patrick, Steve, Rob, Cowboy and the rest. I appreciate the interesting discussion. | ||
| Blake |
Swampy, I say we turn the table and invade Canada! I wonder what they'd do if busloads of Americans started crossing the boarder en mass? LOL. And frankly, I've been thinking about a beach house in Mexico for retirement. The more the merrier. Let's all go! | ||
| Swampy |
We had a peaceful revolution in Michigan, we rejected our Canadian Governor and sent her packing to Berkley, California. | ||
| Moxnix |
My take on "fundamentalist" Christian leaders is that they are not truly interested in, or committed to, the fundamentals of Christianity. More the style over substance. Discernment is critical. If the Muslin Brotherhood chases out the Mubarak government from Egypt, it becomes another mullah-ocracy, like Iran. I crawled, I walked, Iran. (Message edited by moxnix on January 28, 2011) | ||
| Kenm123t |
Any one really want to know how to prevent an Israeli air strike and or have the IDF shoot up your place? Do not shoot at bomb throw rocks or in general not act like your a terrorist and or enemy soldier attacking. Act like a human being you wll betreated as such. I am amazed at the Israelis after all the so called peaceful muslim have done I would have already turned most of the mideast into glass parking lots | ||
| Aesquire |
The Palestinian people were there for thousands of years before Israel existed. True, and many were Christian. Many still live in Israel. Why are so many refugees? Hint, because it suited the arab powers at the time to have a human weapon against Israel, especially one that was expendable, ( not my clans ) and you cared nothing about, but the western press would. It was the Arabs that convinced so many to move, the Arabs who refuse to welcome them into their own countries, and the Arabs ( multiple nations and clans ) who enjoyed the money from the west to "take care of" the "poor refugees". After the muslim brotherhood/ uber racist movement got going, ( late 1940's --on ) the Palestinians were too much trouble to exploit, so they got kicked out of places like Syria & Egypt. If I started to indoctrinate you from a baby into the hate and racism that the poor Palestinians steep in like bad tea, you'd be even less rational. I bet your childhood version of Mr. Rogers didn't have puppets telling you to kill yourself in holy martyrdom. As far as Basque separatists and Irish freedom fighters, I deplore and condemn their tactics. I know less about the history of the Basque than I'd like, but the Irish were fighting an invasion, genocide and a deliberately imposed caste system. ( to be fair, the Irish did a lot of invading & looting of the Brits before being conquered ) I don't believe the Basques or the IRA has announced their intention of imposing Catholicism on You and I by force? I don't recall the Irish wanting to make me dead for being apostate ( I had abandoned The Church ) and ( assuming you are not Catholic from birth ) taxing you to be allowed to live in a Catholic Society. Did I miss that? That is, however, the gist of life for us under the Muslim Brotherhood. | ||
| Trojan |
Today's events in Cairo are reminiscent of the 1979 Iranian Revolution. Not even close I'm afraid. The current events in Egypt adn Tunisia are genuinely popular uprisings against despotic governments that have ignored the needs of its people and are (and have been for many years) unbelieveably corrupt. There is no underlying Islamist revolution going on in Egypt or Tunisia for that matter. The west have supported the Egyptian government for many years simply because we prefer to see any government in place rather than a radical islamist government, but we fail to see that our actions and those of the despots actually increase the risk of revolution by what would normally be minority parties. The Shah of Iran was a terrible leader and was responsble for torture and murder on a huge scale, but we supported him to the end. What exactly is a "fundamentalist Christian" anyway? Anyone who advocates violence/death as a part of their 'faith'. That would apply to any fundamentalist of any religion. There are many many of them still around who think that maybe dressing in a white sheet and burning crosses is an acceptable part of christianity, or that maybe we should burn other religions holy books because we disagree with them, or that it is perfectly acceptable to murder millions of Jews simply because they are a convenient 'non christian' target (it isn't just the nazis who have done this by the way. It has gone on for centuries under all sorts of administrations throughout Europe). Religious intolerance has caused and continues to cause so much hardship and trouble in the world and I really cannot see how people cannot see it. Not just Muslim vs Christian but even amongst followers of different sects of supposedly the same faith. Britain went to war with Spain and France over the centuries fuelled partly because of its desire to separate with the Catholic church, and we still see blatant sectarianism in Northern Ireland between Catholics and Protestant who supposdly believe exactly the same things and the same god!. Religios intolerance has been the cause of more conflict than any other factor over the centuries and I am pretty fed up with still hearing it from all sides  | ||
| Moxnix |
Cor, mate. 70 pecent unemployment gives the people plenty of time to participate in genuinely popular uprisings in Tunisia & Egypt. Perhaps if the Brits/French had not partitioned the Ottoman Caliphate after WW 1 . . . . . | ||
| Aesquire |
What exactly is a "fundamentalist Christian" anyway? Anyone who advocates violence/death as a part of their 'faith'. That would apply to any fundamentalist of any religion. Do I read that right that your definition of "fundamentalist" is one who advocates violence/death as part of their faith?? If so I disagree. Please cite 2 examples that are not Islamic. ( Baal fundamentalists are a bit hard to find ) I'm very tolerant, I put up with Religious types who don't want people to have sex, who don't want people to use condoms, and don't want people to drink alcohol. I may mock them to their faces, but I tolerate them. Hey, you want to believe that it's the will of your God(s) that You must rub blue mud on your belly to please them, fine. If I'm feeling polite, I'll rub blue mud. I'm even curious about your faith, and will usually refrain from mocking it. If on the other hand, you rape and murder children for the glory of your God(s), ( or the expansion of your faith by the sword ) I'm not going to tolerate that. I will condemn you from a distance, stop you in person if I witness the act, and call on others who say they worship the same God(s) to condemn you and cast you out of hiding so civilized, liberal, western, civilization can stop you. Simple enough? (Islam has a belief/admonition of hospitality that has quite an interesting history. Several tales in the "explanations" of the Koran. Whole clans have been wiped out after shielding a guest, obedient to the will of the Prophet. The Taliban shielded Bin Laden, but only after he had bribed them... not so holy, eh? ) Personally, I would insult the Westboro lawsuit for Fags church if I saw them protest, because I think they are exploitive con men. I wouldn't run them down with a truck, but the finger seems appropriate. I Dunno, maybe that's wrong. There is no underlying Islamist revolution going on in Egypt or Tunisia for that matter. Really? That's not what the participants say. Whose propaganda are you parroting? Or, if that's insulting.... gee? what's your source for that? While I completely agree the Jews have been a target for millenia, and have even noted a few "reasons" why they are so attacked, AND that the Klan ( the Democrat party anti Negro arm... Not a religious group ) and, heck, many "religious" book burning cretins are out there, mainstream western civilization ( mostly Christian, or it was ) condemns such actions. Now, what IS "mainstream" Islam? Is it the people dancing in the streets to news of murder and betrayal? The estimated 200 million plus who think that it's ok to murder for their faith? ( most of which would not do so... but cheer those who would ) Or the guy in Buffalo who started a cable chanel to tell us that Islam is not violent, then beheaded his wife in the studio when she wanted a divorce? I hope not. Now I notice I cite real examples of abuse, war, and murder, that are happening today, and Trojan seems to complain about bad stuff in the past to excuse the murders of today.... or am I just spinning it? No doubt the Salem Witch trails were horrific. The Inquisition, the religious war that the Brits deliberately created in Ireland. ( that "blatant sectarianism" is the tool to keep down the Catholics put in place on purpose ) All suckorama. Not defending a bit of it. It's no excuse for denying actual current badness. |
