| Author | Message | ||
     Revz |
From this article http://www.washingtonpost.com/wp-dyn/content/artic le/2010/12/01/AR2010120106870.html?sid=ST201012010 6876 "By the fall of 2008, credit had frozen across the financial system, including the commercial paper market. The Fed then purchased commercial paper issued by GE 12 times for a total of $16 billion. It bought paper from Harley-Davidson 33 times, for a total of $2.3 billion. It picked up debt issued by Verizon twice, totaling $1.5 billion. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Did they file it under the CHROME SUBSIDIES ACT? WTF, YOU KILLED BUELL THOSE BASTARDS! | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Thanks for the link I heard on NPR earlier in the week that a report about who else got Fed money was going to be released this week. I meant to keep an eye out for the report. Not surprised HD was on the dole. | ||
| Court |
Don't forget this is YOUR money. Some, in Congress, seem to have lost sight of this fact. | ||
| Sayitaintso |
Court, agreed 100%, and thats why when it came time to buy a new car for my wife last week; I put my money where my mouth was.... we took a new 2011 Ford Edge home. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Don't forget this is YOUR money. Don't you mean WAS.... | ||
| Ourdee |
Don't forget this is YOUR money. Don't you mean WAS.... I think "IS" is the right word, you haven't finished paying for it. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
can we claim them as a dependent? | ||
| Sayitaintso |
I think "IS" is the right word, you haven't finished paying for it. Its not our money, its not even our kids money, its gonna be a grandkids and great grandkids. | ||
| Moxnix |
GE, H-D, GM Acceptance Corp, all the "in-house" financing activities qualified as "banking" activities to give them a spot in the all-you-can-eat bailout under TARP. Fair would have been to let all these "banks" fail, but NOooooo . . . . | ||
| Scooter808484 |
But we'd hate to have any regulation on any of those financial institutions to keep them screwing us again. | ||
| Davegess |
Don't forget this is YOUR money. First point; And the vast majority is coming back. The CBO is saying of the 700 B at least 675 is being paid back. Second point; What would you have done? Let all these big firms go broke? Send AIG, GM and several big Wall Street firms into traditional bankruptcy? Who think the economy is bad now? It is nothing compared to where we were heading before TARP. The Great Depression would have been a cakewalk. What would you have done to prevent this in the very few weeks that something could have been done? | ||
| Carbonbigfoot |
That's bullshit. It shouldn't have been allowed to get that far. Both of the parties are to blame, maybe one more than the other, but it's the F***ING CAREER POLITICIANS that are the problem! R | ||
| Sayitaintso |
I'll say no more on this (at least I'll try) but for the long term good of the country I think letting them fail may have been exactly what we needed. Whats we're doing now (TARP aside) is unsustainable, but without something drastic nothing is going to change. If anyone doesn't believe me watch this when you get a chance, its non-partisan, fact based, and important. http://www.iousathemovie.com/ | ||
| Davegess |
I agree it is unsustainable and we need to fix it BUT letting the entire economic system lock up solid would have been the most painful way it could have been done. We need to listen to the recommendations of debt commission and start figuring out how to reduce the cost of Social Security, Medicare and the military. If we don't address those 3 nothing else will really matter. Some combination of taxes and spending reductions are really needed. If we can get the debt under control we can talk about general tax reductions. | ||
| Reepicheep |
Some of the bailouts were good bets. I hate them, but can't argue the logic. You want regulation? Here is how it should be done: 1) For every $1M in bailout money you get, one senior VP or above in your company must spend one year in a low security prison for crimes against humanity. It's a soft crime, so they get soft time, but they do the time. We don't care which executive, you can pick them, but they have to be real SVP's or above that have been actively operating the company. People signing the Sarbanes Oxley stuff. 2) These are LOANS, not gifts, and we get paid back at market interest rates. 3) Any company deemed "too big to fail" must be bonded / insured to cover them if they do fail. This includes the insurance companies insuring companies that are "too big to fail". It'll be freaking expensive, BTW, so you better have stupid high levels of margin and stupid low risks so you can be insured cheaply. 4) If you are in the management band at one of the insurance companies insuring companies too big to fail, you have a 15 year "clawback" clause. If your company fails, you go to jail (again, low security) until you pay back all benefits you got during your tenure with that company. Ok, not all of it, anything over 3x the poverty index. So you probably want to insure yourself against that. 5) If you are a senior executive at one of these insurance companies, and the company fails within 5 years of you working for it, you have a 3 year minimum sentence to a low security jail. If these terms are objectionable to you, work for another company. No more privatizing the benefits, while socializing the risk. | ||
| Revz |
according to the SBA "The latest statistics from the Small Business Administration (SBA) show that "two-thirds of new employer establishments survive at lease two years, and 44 percent survive at least four years." This is a far cry from the previous long-held belief that 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years." Edison tried 6000 plant species to find one that would work as a filament. Had his failed attempts been propped by the government, then as suggested ... Edison would have earned 15000 years in "clawback" time and the 56% who started business would all be in jail doing "soft time" And none of that is my point, which is... there are lies, damn lies, and statistics, politicians will meddle and only use the statistics they want to validate their point.... your point has logic about as valid as this conversation: BEDEVERE Tell me ... what do you do with witches? ALL Burn them. BEDEVERE And what do you burn, apart from witches? FOURTH VILLAGER ... Wood? BEDEVERE So why do witches burn? SECOND VILLAGER (pianissimo) ... Because they're made of wood...? BEDEVERE Good. PEASANTS stir uneasily then come round to this conclusion. ALL I see. Yes, of course. BEDEVERE So how can we tell if she is made of wood? FIRST VILLAGER Make a bridge out of her. BEDEVERE Ah ... but can you not also make bridges out of stone? ALL Ah. Yes, of course ... um ... err ... BEDEVERE Does wood sink in water? ALL No, no, It floats. Throw her in the pond Tie weights on her. To the pond. BEDEVERE Wait. Wait ... tell me, what also floats on water? ALL Bread? No, no, no. Apples .... gravy ... very small rocks ... ARTHUR A duck. They all turn and look at ARTHUR. BEDEVERE looks up very impressed. BEDEVERE Exactly. So... logically ... FIRST VILLAGER (beginning to pick up the thread) If she ... weighs the same as a duck ... she's made of wood. BEDEVERE And therefore? ALL A witch! ... A duck! A duck! Fetch a duck. FOURTH VILLAGER Here is a duck, Sir Bedevere. BEDEVERE We shall use my largest scales. He leads them a few yards to a very strange contraption indeed, made of wood and rope and leather. They put the GIRL in one pan and the duck in another. Each pan is supported by a wooden stave. BEDEVERE checks each pan then ... ARTHUR looks on with interest. BEDEVERE Remove the supports. Two PEASANTS knock them away with sledge hammers. The GIRL and the duck swing slightly but balance perfectly. ALL A witch! A witch! | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
its a fair cop... | ||
| Sifo |
according to the SBA "The latest statistics from the Small Business Administration (SBA) show that "two-thirds of new employer establishments survive at lease two years, and 44 percent survive at least four years." This is a far cry from the previous long-held belief that 50 percent of businesses fail in the first year and 95 percent fail within five years." Your quote only deals with "employer" businesses, not "nonemployer" businesses. From your SBA info...
Intentional or not you have demonstrated how statistics are often cherry picked to prove a given point. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
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| Scooter808484 |
While it sounds nice to say you'd let these companies fail, the complete collapse of the worldwide financial system would have made the current horrible recession far far worse. Probably would have cost more in the long run, because of the FDIC guarantees of normal bank deposits that the a__hole bankers piddled away in their self produced casino. Then we could have let GM fail as well and immediately thrown 20k or so direct employees and countless thousands more supply chain employees immediately into unemployment. The recovery, slow as it is, wouldn't have even started yet because there would have been pretty much no bank from which to borrow money left standing. | ||
| Court |
It's a tough call . . . . General Electric, as an example, was not "going broke" or falling on their ass. All they were guilt of was contributing heavily to the Obama campaign . . not a bad deal . . . they got $24,900,000,000 and then laid off 18,000 folks. That's a new twist on "job creation". I'm asking myself . . . . "If George W. Bush had, as an example, given $29,900,00,000 to NewsCorp and then kind of shielded the use of the public funds from public few . . only to have it discovered . . . . how would that have been view. My favorite was the $52,000,000 in cash the Vice President of Afghanistan had in the suitcase.
We are the "job creators" from hell! . . . and how many jobs has this $878,000,000,000 (including the $262,000,000 they can't seem to account for on Recovery.Gov) created? . . . . I know. . . I know . . if we had not have done it _____________(fill in the blank with the terrible thing of your choice) would have occurred. I listened to Rangel taking his medicine in The Well of the Senate tonight . . . . he continues to blame others for him getting caught . . . They just really don't get it. | ||
| Davegess |
I continue to ask, what was the alternative? | ||
| Court |
>>>The recovery, slow as it is Yeah . . . I'd sat "slow" is a darn good word to describe it.
  Try running a private company like that and see how long you last . . . | ||
| Reindog |
The alternative is so obvious that you can't see it. Let the corporations file for bankruptcy so that they can reorganize. Companies do not go out of existence when they go bankrupt. The creditors take the hit, not the US taxpayer. The company will survive as it emerges as a smaller entity. The Federal Government is misguided and warped that its actions tend to prolong the crisis. Actually, this Wonderful Government helped foment the crisis in the first place. Banks and lenders were threatened with force to give mortgages to people who never had any intention to repay them. This Wonderful Government is rotten to the core. Liberalism is a mental disease of the worst order. This scourge will be washed away one way or the other. I don't intend on being a victim when the hammer caused by these creeps comes down. There, I said it. | ||
| Davegess |
Dude, if the credit markets had frozen up, and they were dam close to it, you have something at least as bad as the Great Depression. It would have been a complete disaster. The whole country would look like Detroit. I agree with Warren Buffitt, he is pleasantly surprised that the Fed and the White House (and this was not the George Bush White house not my favorite group of people) not only did the right thing but that they even had the gumption to do it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
crimes against humanity... does that mean we get to go 'enhanced interrogation techniques' to find out who is really cookin the books >? I say one senator/representative a month as well | ||
| Davegess |
Banks and lenders were threatened with force to give mortgages to people who never had any intention to repay them. This is simply not true. | ||
| Sifo |
Banks and lenders were threatened with force to give mortgages to people who never had any intention to repay them. This is simply not true. This simply is true. When I was a Loan Officer for a home mortgage company I had a Realtor get into it with me asking why I told his clients they could afford such a big mortgage. I told him that if he felt they couldn't afford it he was free to say something. Of course he knew better to do that because the client can turn you in and you can be prosecuted for discriminatory practices. The bottom line is that if they qualify for the loan, you have no choice but to tell them they qualify. The reality is that you know damn well that folks on the edge of qualifying, at lower income levels will never be able to pay the mortgage. So if I tell them they can't afford a loan that they qualify for, I know damn well that guys with guns may come knocking on my door to prosecute me for discriminatory lending practices. I've been told by those that have been through this sort of investigation, that you don't want to have this happen. So the loan officer gives the news that they qualify with a smile, knowing that they will default with the slightest financial bump. | ||
| Reindog |
I have a California Real Estate License and what I wrote happens to be true. We were constantly taught about discriminatory and redlining practices. Congress used threat of force to cause change in the industry so that mortgages would be extended to high risk individuals. Every time. EVERY TIME this do-good Wonderful Government attempts social engineering, it seriously disrupts markets and prolongs crisis. This Wonderful Government must be stopped and returned to its Constitutional Mandate. If the Democrats keep playing games about extension of tax cuts, then expect a huge sell off in the Stock Market in the next two weeks because there will be uncertainty as to whether capital gain rates rise from 15% to 20%. The class warfare, demonize the "rich", but these idiot Democrats will hurt everyone. I despise these Bolsheviks and the toadies that engage in class warfare. |
