| Author | Message | ||
     Koz5150 |
So I am on my way back from a local park with my 3 year old daughter when I drive by this lady on a bike with her daughter about to pull into traffic. I couldn't believe how small the kid was on the back of this bike. So I pulled over and waited to see if they were going to drive by us. I also quickly pulled out my cell phone camera. Well , sure enough, she did and off they went. I followed the lady who only went about 2 miles to her destination, Wal Mart. After she parked and took off her helmet I asked her if she realized that Wisconsin state law requires that passengers have both feet on the footpegs. As Defined in WI state law 346.595 Motorcycles and mopeds. (3) No passenger may ride a Type 1 motorcycle who, when properly seated, cannot rest the feet on assigned foot rests or pegs. She looks at me and snaps back "she's fine, don't worry about it!" I said "I can't do that, because as I was following you I could see her weight shifting from side to side as she cannot reach the foot pegs which you don't even have folded down. Do you have some one that you can call to give her a ride home?" She replies back, "Mind your own business!" and then walks into the store with the little girl. Not wanting to start a huge fight (I got my daughter with me still) I let her go and park directly accross from the bike where I can make sure she doesn't leave. I then called 911 and waited for a LEO to show up. Once there, I showed her the picture of the little girl on the bike and exactly what the driver was wearing. When the lady came back out the cop wrote her a ticket and waited till the girl had another ride home. Can you think of anything in Wal mart that is so valuable that you would stick a 3 yearold on the back of a bike??? Makes me sometimes wish that you had to pass a test in order to be a parent...  (Message edited by koz5150 on October 11, 2010) | ||
| Skntpig |
I bet it's all off balance with that bald guy riding in the tour-pack. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Good call. Its ashame that some people take on the responsibility of being a parent. | ||
| Ulywife |
Sad part is that you had more interest in her child's safety than she did. Good on you for doing the right thing even if it pissed the parent off. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Good Call Kaz+1 | ||
| Strokizator |
I'm not a big fan of "safety nazis" and I can't say that I haven't given little kids a slow ride around the block (usually sitting on the tank and holding the handlebars)but I think you did the right thing here. This lady has little regard for her children. I took the wife on a ride-along Sat to the hardware store. On the way back she says the weather is so nice she's not going to put on her jacket. I tell her it's a long walk back but the weather is indeed nice. Funny thing is that if I'd been by myself I'd probably had ridden home in my t-shirt. I hold other people's lives more dearly than my own and that's the way it should be. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
My wife doesn't want to wear a helmet and I wont let her ride with me if she doesn't.... she hasn't ridden with more for a LONG time. I couldn't live with myself if something happened Its better to sweat than bleed! | ||
| Drkside79 |
Wow and nice of the ****************** to get the kid a helmet that doesn't fit. After the ticket.... She probably got home kicked the dog, sat down on a folding lawn-chair while wearing a pink robe. Cussed up a storm while she downed a can of beast ice and watered the weeds and garden gnomes. I hate people!  (Message edited by drkside79 on October 11, 2010) | ||
| Bo_sox |
Bald guy riding in the tour-pack! Hahahahah!!! | ||
| Rwven |
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| Koz5150 |
Rwven - count the number of vehicles in your photo vs. mine. That's why we have laws about that stuff here. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Wow darkside, what a complete ass you are. Calling her a redneck, making ASS-U-ME-tions, and degrading what you think may be her lifestyle. And on what pedestal do you sit on? This would be a tough call for me. I am one who is very anti calling the police. It is times like these where not being a parent is a probably a good thing, as I am more inclined to agree with her. It's none of your business. - Flame Away. What this might do is prompt the woman to just leave her child behind next time. Leave her to a more dangerous situation, where the possibility of the child getting hurt is the same or greater. We do not know all there is to know. The lady was/is in the wrong, but what were the circumstances that lead to it? What did she end up buying? Is the motorcycle her only means of transportation? Other than a ticket, and one safe ride home, what was accomplished? Was an offer made to help the lady? Was anything done to improve the lady's or the child's life? Was an offer made to move/place pegs in such a way as to make it safer for the child? Or this just a feel good "I did the right thing", moment? When/if the lady doesn't pay the ticket, and ends up without a license, who is going to drive the child around then? What is the cost of that ticket going to take the place of? Food? Heat? Maybe the lady should not have children. Maybe she is a lousy parent. Be she is. So now what? And how does the ticket make her a better one? What are her thoughts of others at this point, and who do you think she is likely to take it out on? The snap judgments I see here are not productive. And the beatings I took after some "nice" people tried to help and interfere are something I remember before I jump into others affairs. | ||
| Budgolf |
I see your point. But yeah, she had a point when telling you to mind your own business too. I know, I know, child safety and responsibility and accountability and all of that, but those are all valid arguments for not allowing people under a certain age to be passengers on motorcycles period. It might have been ok to advise her of the law, but I don't agree with calling the cops on her. You know, that may have been that woman's only option. Life might suck. Who's to say what she's going through? A crappy life just got crappier though. But of course she's ignorant and redneck and God knows what else because she's shopping at Wal Mart. Move the pegs up and tie her feet to them. Weather she can touch them properly or not it won't do shit for her when someone pulls out and they T-Bone a Buick. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Whisperstealth - As someone who is not a parent I wouldn't expect you to understand completely. I am the parent of a daughter the same age, and everyday I learn something new about child development. And I did offer her the chance to call someone so here were my reasons I made the call. 1. Kids that age will fall asleep at the drop of a hat in a vehicle. My daughter crashed in matter of 2 minutes riding in my jeep with no windows yesterday doing 40 mph. Kids on bikes will do the same. 2. Kids that age do not have the capacity to understand what it means to fall off if they don't hold on. She could point to an animal or anthing on the side of the road, lose her grip and she would be down. 3. The law clearly states the requirements for a passenger and this kid did not meet them. 4. Moving the pegs up to meet her feet would not help with issue 1 and 2 listed above. 5. In Wisconsin, that bike is not the only mode of transit or that person has bigger issues. 6. It would be much better to wait till someone came home or take the kid to a neighbor if it was that big an emergency to get to Wal-Mart. 7. When approaching the person they clearly took the position that their desire to do what they wanted was much greater then the desire to think of their child's safety first. 8. Yeah, she got a ticket and a safe ride home, but hopefully the parent learned 1. they were wrong and 2. people in my community care. | ||
| Drkside79 |
@ Whisperstealth Perhaps Redneck was inappropriate I often forget that Southerners often use that word as a source of pride. (Not trying to be offensive. My apologies if i was.) The kicking the dog stands though. Also I have altered it and will allow people to fill in their own blank. | ||
| Drkside79 |
BTW Koz I am with you and am glad you took the time to do it. In all seriousness that was child endangerment and DCFS should keep an eye on her. Sorry I joked around in my earlier comment its just how I roll. | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
I sometimes think that people take contrary positions just for the sake of doing so. It's the same as the handful of people I know whose typical response to most things they hear is "that's BS!". It must be based on some underlying issues or unfortunate experiences. Either way- it's sad. This is simply an issue of a bad decision being made by an adult where a child's safety is at risk. The hypothetical issues of what may or may not be going on in the child's home has no bearing on the situation at hand. The OP witnessed a dangerous and illegal action involving a child and made a mature and responsible decision to notify the proper authorities. Hypothetically, his actions might have saved the child's life by not allowing the parent to continue to endanger their underage. under sized passenger. Why anyone with an ounce of compassion, adult responsibility, social conscience, or basic human decency would not react in the same manner is beyond me. | ||
| Whisperstealth |
Koz, I have no arguement for you against your reasons. Your points are valid. I still feel moving the pegs up would be a good thing. #4 is still an assumption. My point is what happens now? It is unlikely the parent learned anything except bitterness. It was good to give her a chance to call someone, but how about getting to know the lady? Offering for You to give the child a ride home? You started right in on her. "After she parked and took off her helmet I asked her if she realized that Wisconsin state law requires that passengers have both feet on the footpegs." Did you say "Hi, my name is, and I noticed your little girl was not able to reach the pegs" Did you say you happened to know/have a way to make it safer? I am willing to make the Assumption that you were upset and it showed. I willing to bet whether you realized it or not, there was a confrontational tone in your voice. You challeged the lady and put her on the defensive from the start. The result was typical and predictable. Again, what could have been done to make the situation better, and better Going Forward? I'm not a "parent" but the oldest of 4 who took a large parenting role in taking care of my siblings. I do understand things to a decent degree. I too live in a community where people care. And I am positive there are many here that would do the same thing you did. I even more convinced that the carrot works better than the stick in these situations. The olive branch better than the arrow. People respond to criticism when put at ease, not being lectured to about the law by strangers. | ||
| Koz5150 |
Yeah, I could have been more open at the begining, but it was spur of the moment kind of opportunity. I would have offered the kid a ride home, but honestly, I would never put my kid in a car with a complete stranger who followed me into a parking lot. Another thing that sucks is that people do get defensive right away. It is something I have worked on a lot myself and when you are wrong you should be able to just admit it. (I have found this practice makes marriage a little better.) I think our society has encouraged that type of behavior though with the whole "I am only guilty for what my lawyer can't get thrown out of court" syndrome. It's not what I did wrong, it's what you can prove I did wrong. | ||
| Court |
I'm a parent. I can understand all the various, based on a myriad of perspectives, viewpoints about what you did. From my perspective, as a parent and a motorcyclist, I think you did precisely the right thing. There are folks in this world who are the potential victims of stupid people and who are unable to either know better or to make decisions for their own welfare. The mother (or rider, perhaps it wasn't the mom) made a very poor decision and placed the child in grave danger. When you told her and she reacted the way she did you did precisely what we are told time and time again to do . . . "don't try to handle it yourself, call the Police". Well done. Proud of you. Court P.S. - When I look at that photo and the helpless passenger all I can think of is the last time I rode in Erik's car and made the mistake of telling him "shame we hit traffic on the way, we're only 3 minutes short of breaking our track to the house record". Having spent 2 minutes and 42 seconds as a defenseless passenger I know how the kid felt! | ||
| Borrowedbike |
http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/37/ 467689.html?1245073960 | ||
| Drfudd |
I live in South Carolina and we don't have that law that passengers have to touch the foot pegs (to my knowledge at least). I have a 4 year old (almost 5) that can (barely) touch the foot begs when she is on the back. the only law regarding children is that under 21 you MUST wear a helmet, I and my daughter always wear a helmet regardless, #1 safety gear. It took me a long long time to build up some level of trust to let my daughter ride in the back, I always feel safer when she is in front of me but she can only ride in front when she doesn't impair my ability to operate the motorcycle and she's basically at that point with her size. This post brought up things of knowledge, maybe she didn't know it was a law? I certainly wouldn't have thought to consider if a passenger can touch the foot pegs, I know when ever I take off or speed up I throw my left hand behind her to help brace her (more of a comfort for me than for her) and I do pay constant attention to what she is doing behind me and make sure she is hanging on always and I never take her for long rides (longer than 15 minutes) and if I did I would make sure she is attached to me some how but I haven't done it so I haven't worried about it. My wife says I have no common sense but let me ask the group here, do you think it would be considered common knowledge that for safety sake the passenger has to touch the foot pegs? | ||
| Jaimec |
I find it ironic that people need a license to have a dog, but ANYONE can have children. | ||
| Jaimec |
Yes. Every year my nephews would sit on the back of my bike to see if they could reach the pegs. Once they could (WITHOUT stretching) I took them for rides as often as I could. I ALSO bought them helmets that FIT. | ||
| Buellerandy |
I just wish natural selection had a higher probability to occur before having kids... I mean this to apply in general. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I'm all for live and let live, but "mind your own business" does not apply when the law is being broken and a minor is put at risk. This wasn't a joy ride up and down a dead end street or an empty parking lot, this was traffic. IMHO. | ||
| Iamarchangel |
It's called a foot peg because the foot is supposed to rest on the peg. It's called that to make it easy for lawyers to figure out what it is used for. Why would you have to ask if you have to be able to touch it? Ever seen what happens to a foot in spokes? Toes in chain/belt and sprocket? Good call. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I'm going to have to side with the individual operating the motorcycle here. That's her kid, not yours. People live, people die. Mind your own business. If they're not hurting YOU, it's not YOUR business. I would kick somebody's ass on the spot if they tried to tell me what to do with my kid. Granted, I have better judgement than this lady did, in my OPINION. See, I recognize that it's my OPINION. Just like your OPINION was that she should follow the "law." I feel sad when I see dead raccoons on the road, even though they constantly try to kill my pet turtles. I feel no guilt about shooting raccoons for fun. Figure me out. | ||
| Kyrocket |
What part of against the law and illegal am I not getting here? I was only going five mph over, I looked both ways before running the red light...Good on you Koz. If more people stood up for children that can't maybe parents would think twice before doing stupid stuff. I think she reacted the way she did because she knew she was in the wrong and didn't want to be called out for it but she was and got defensive. How would the anti safety posters on here react if this bike was the one in the other thread that got rear ended by the cage? Shoe on the other foot now? Just saying. Laws are laws no matter how inane or ridiculous. | ||
| Budgolf |
It amazes me that people get all wrapped up in the freaking law. Screw the law. The law is stupid. If those pegs were modified, (no they weren't) she would be completely within the law. Just because she would be within the law, doesn't change the fact that it's stupid to have a child that small on the back of a motorcycle, driving around town. Really, how often does someone fall off the back of a bike vs how often does someone get knocked off by an idiot driver. How many here would drive around town with their kids jumping around the back, out of their car seats? (I know we did when we were kids). Very few of you would. But it's ok to throw a 5 yr old on the back as long as she can touch the pegs? I don't see how the law or being able to touch the pegs has anything to do with it. But, I wonder, if it had been a man, with colors and a big ol beard and a bunch of tats would you do the same thing? Maybe you would have I don't know. But I know a few that would of had your ass as soon as they put that ticket in their pocket. |
