I can't comment on HD sales since I will never own another. I did have the chance to ride numerous bikes over the last three weeks. Jumping off the Victory onto a Soft-Tail proved to be a huge disappointment as was the Road King. Brakes, can we have brakes please? My HD ownership covers only 5 motorcycles, 3 Sportys and 2 Baja's. I put almost 100K miles on two of the Sportys and liked them. That's been a few years ago. Now they've effed them all up with rubber mounts. The Vic is solid mount and twice as smooth as any Harley running down the road and... the brakes work great. I think HD has held onto their past a little too long. Their pricing is through the roof. For $18,000.00 I can park a new Cross Country in the garage. The equivalent in a Harley is many thousands more and not near the machine. Beancounters have no business running a company that should be all about the passion of the ride.
Jb2, I totally agree. I have owned both a solid mount and a rubber mount Sporty, and the rubber mounted one sucked. IMO, rubber mounting the engine and adding 50lbs was a huge step backwards for the Sportster.
I have both in my garage. And when I have a choice which bike to ride, its the Buell. Its a year newer and has 4 times as many miles. If I am riding a passenger, its the Harley. If I am riding in a parade, or to a show, its the Harley. If I am commuting, camping, riding for fun.... BUELL without hesitation.
I love my Harley, and it is for the classic style to it. But for power, performance, reliability, ruggedness, and stupid fun... BUELL. I just wished they had come out with that dirty bike, it would have made my garage very happy.
You nailed it Cityxslicker... I've got both Harleys and Buells and for taking gals for rides and general parade duty the harley works and has the flash. BUT if "I" am going somewhere I'm taking my Uly, period, more everything than the harley.
What's funny is that I discovered Buell well after harley and as I'm almost 40 I can see nothing but used Buells in my future. After the purchase of my first Buell (98 S3) it was all over for HD in my books.
I wonder if any HD management can see the irony in the fact they admit they need to appeal to a younger more active group but they just killed the one company that could have given corporate that very thing? dumb dumb dumb dumb dumb....
I only deal with new machines - so I can't comment other than the vehicles I've actually tested. Can't make a valid comparison between old and new sportys either.
What I found is the latest Road King and Ultra ridden had Brembo brakes and the only time the the engines were notably rougher than the Victory was at idle. Pin that 106 cube and it gets a whole lotta shakin' goin' on. Personally I like that - feeling each pulse.
The main difference I noted is the Vics have 20% more horsepower.
That said, I also think 103 cube is a really 'sweet' motor and actually rates as one of my favourites. (Triumph 1050 triple is still first choice) So are both Victory engines (amongst favourites - I have plenty) and the Vegas 8 Ball seriously gives me wood.
I'd also say of the dozen or so Harleys I've ridden in the past 12 months one Sporty 883 had woody brakes, the rest weren't exactly GSXR stoppers, but they worked fine - no advantage to Minnesota in the ones I've ridden. In fact the ABS Ultra's were probably the standout in the battleship class. The 2008 onwards touring chassis is also amongst the best.
For that matter the only quirky handling machines I can recall in the last five years are the Victory Hammer whose quirkiness is all part of the fun, and the M109 and the way it needs to be ridden around the silly back tyre (at low speeds).
And yes, I still don't like what Harley did to me with Buell, but these are my assessments of the vehicles.
I ride a 2010 FLHP (Road King) at work nearly everyday. It has adequate acceleration, braking and handling.
That being said, it is not the most appealing bike for the younger crowd who want real performance.
The sportys seem to be on the younger crowd's radar, but not at the forefront.
IMO h-d would have been wise to either keep Buell or have re-badged the air-cooled XBs as harleys. IF (big IF) harley could have taken the XB line more towards the XBRR they might have had something to get excited about.
As it is, the last time harley was competitive in mainstream racing (ie; AMA road racing, ie; young crowd) I was in diapers. At least with Buell fans could associate with the bikes currently on the track.
>>> IF (big IF) harley could have taken the XB line more towards the XBRR they might have had something to get excited about.
From September's Road Racing World and Motorcycle Technology Magazine:
Buell Motorcycle Company had a long list of prototype models that were canceled by H-D’s product planning committees over the years, including a turbocharged XB12R code-named “Diablo” that made 150 horsepower and 120 lbs.-ft. of torque, an XBRR-powered Lightning that put 125 horsepower to the rear wheel, the “Sugar” middleweight Triple and the “Griffin” motocross bike, to name a few.
Ratbuell, You're wrong on one point: unlike Hardley Abelson, vinyl is enjoying a resurgence. Picture the Mofoco as being the 8 track tape of motorcycle companies, instead. Quick, grab it, ahh, crap, it just ate the tape...
at 8500 rpm and 150 RWHP as a racing machine pushed to the limit.
At 7,500 rpm and 125 RWHP on pump gas, no problem.
Given better performance numbers and still the HD lump, the XBRR powered bike wouldn't have made any additional headway in the sportbike market.
Buell faithful would have loved it, but few others would.
I'd have loved to have it, but to get performance numbers competitive with liter bike from the Big Four the engine would have had to be pushed to a state of tune that would be "problematic".
>>> Buell faithful would have loved it, but few others would.
I disagree. With that kind of power and the incredible low end grunt of the H-D engine, it would have attracted a lot more attention. We are talking about a 40% power increase over anything previously offered by Buell, not too far off from the 1125 machines.
I agree that an XBRR street bike would not be competition for the majority of repli-racer shoppers. It absolutely would have garnered a significant share of the naked/muscle bike market.
I just bought a new '10 street glide today for a decent deal. Im 28, and as angry as I was a year ago, couldnt help but fall in love with the bike. I did, however, keep my 1125r.
The detuned RR at 125 horsepower would have been right in the same league as the newest BMW boxer engines. In a four hundred pound Lightning, that thing would have been incredible. If H-D had any sense of what circumstances created their "heritage", they would have been chomping at the bit to have the same mill in a serious, no bullsh*t Sportster that could live up to it's name, instead of another reason to festoon the poor old thing with crappy suspension and tires and forward pegs......
Posted on Wednesday, September 22, 2010 - 12:10 am:
>>> The detuned RR at 125 horsepower would have been right in the same league as the newest BMW boxer engines.
You are confusing crank HP to rear wheel HP. The best BMW boxer is 120 HP at the crank, not the rear wheel. The 125 RWHP XBRR based lighting would have been around 140 HP at the crank.
But...it's a rather elite crowd, not exactly mainstream. 