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Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 01:36 am: | 
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Outsourcing-in-place
Precisely. You'll hear on the news that no Americans want the actual jobs that the Mexicans take from us, in reference to farm workers... but you won't hear about the story I just told, except from the truckers who have to take out a loan just to register their equipment.
(Message edited by pwnzor on September 14, 2010) |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 01:43 am: |
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US Unemployment: 10%
US Workforce: 154,000,000
Illegal Immigrant Workforce: 8%
Unemployment post immigration enforcement: 2%
http://www.nytimes.com/2009/03/22/us/22immig.html? pagewanted=1&_r=1
Starting to make sense?
Lock the border down so hard their balls ache.
Punish those who hire illegal immigrants so hard their balls ache.
Enforce the immigration laws on the books. If the union leadership had the worker's best interests in mind, they would back every candidate who places immigration ENFORCEMENT center spot in their campaign and administration regardless of party affiliation.
You are being played by those you pay to advocate for you! |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 01:45 am: |
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Americans "won't do those jobs" because they don't pay enough.
They don't pay enough because there are 300,000 illegal immigrants lining up fresh every year willing to do the job for less than the guy who did it last just to get the job.
If that labor wasn't there, the wages would rise and more Americans would be willing to do those jobs.
Are you kidding me? Have you seen the jobs people do on Dirty Jobs? These aren't even illegal immigrants. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Tuesday, September 14, 2010 - 01:54 am: |
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Ft_B,
My point is that the media spins it to seem that those are the only jobs the Mexicans are taking.
This is woefully not the case. Notice I didn't say "illegals", I said "Mexicans". Truly, I should have said "Hispanics" because Guatemalans are very big in the trucking industry as well. |
Kenm123t
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 08:13 pm: |
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Rocket do your Good union memeber steal?
I just fired three of your special union members for stealing parts equipment time etc. They were working a 4 10 schedule and decided they were going in to contracting with my property! The master mind ( read union weasel Project manager) was skimming jobs off sales calls and my service dept line. We are currently going over the jobs they did I did hard drive back up on his company computer before the UNION scum formatted his hard drive. I have been a union member from 1st day apprentice and nearly every position on both sides of labor and management.They will be gone as soon as I complete a few jobs. Never to return If the loser demos pull card check I will never hire another employee.
As for making a living wage I want my guys to make 100K or better they dont want to work they want be lazy and steal its not about the money its That the union mentality is messed up. as Ron White said you can't fix stupid |
Johnnymceldoo
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 09:25 pm: |
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I've heard stories from enough uaw workers at gm to cease buying any products made by the uaw. As if their political affiliation wasn't enough. Vote with you wallets. |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 09:51 pm: |
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Again with the hate. So now only union members steal? What a totally retarded comment. Yep. Only union members are lazy, thieves, stupid. Your hatred is only overshadowed by your total ignorance. The company I work for just fired 2 NON UNION employees for falsifying their time cards, falsifying their expenses. Leaving early for "meetings" and being spotted at a bar (on more than one occasion). Using company cars for personal use. Drinking AT work.
Those non union scum. Oh wait, now I sounds as ignorant as YOU. Has nothing to do with unions or not. They were shit employees that deserved to be fired, as did the ones that were screwing you over. But calling all union workers scum. Just plan stupid. Let me guess. You blame all muslims for 9/11 and think they're all terrorists too. Ignorance is bliss. You must be very happy. |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 09:53 pm: |
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And your quoting Ron White just reinforces my opinion. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 09:59 pm: |
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You blame all muslims for 9/11 and think they're all terrorists too.
Only the "extremist" union members are scum. 
Union or no, people act stupidly. |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 10:07 pm: |
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Exactly my point. I really don't care if some one is in a union or not. But it really burns me when people judge a whole group by the actions of a few. Just plan stupid. Do I talk shit about corporate America? Sure. But directed at the companies that more than obviously screw their employees. The people that own the company I work for? Nicest people around. Maybe some employees treat their employers they way they're treated? The whole what comes around, goes around thing. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Wednesday, September 15, 2010 - 10:17 pm: |
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Agreed. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 01:27 pm: |
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I too agree. My problem is that on too many occasions, the big unions know about the slackers, but turn a blind eye to them in favor of bolstering membership (money). That is exactly what caused my two friends to grow to hate their union at the GM plant here in Texas. |
Blake
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 01:31 pm: |
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Was Johnny Cash union when he built his car?  |
Koz5150
| | Posted on Thursday, September 16, 2010 - 03:32 pm: |
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Funny thing too, People seem to forget that an Employee making $30 and hour is ALOT more expensive then just the wage. Add on Health care, Paid vacation, Sick time, and a host of other associated costs and you got one expensive assembly line guy. Now throw on the money for Union Dues, time wasted arguing about wages, and eventually an unhappy/unmotivated worker and you get very little for you money. Next lets add in the over paid Executive Board and the large black hole of middle management. You got a lot of ???? for your money.
WAY Too expensive in my opinion, which is why I won't buy a new Harley. Yeah, I am craving a used one since that bike has had the price adjusted by the free market and is far mor reasonable. Besides, I have found so many 5 to 10 year old bikes with Less then 10,000 miles on them at half the price of a new one? The decision is a slam dunk.
In time the market will catch up with Harley. They will either continue to rightsize their operation and become competitive with their own competition which is both Foreign companies and the used HD market, or they will fail and get bought out by some other investor much like Norton, Indian, or a million other companies that have screwed themselves up. |
Swampy
| | Posted on Saturday, September 18, 2010 - 11:24 pm: |
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I had a wise friend explain the illegal worker problem to me once, he compared it to slavery. The south used the slaves as a cheap way to get things done, it resulted in the tragic social woes we have today that will never go away. The illegal workers of today are providing this same cheap way for things to get done. Years from now when illegal workers are freed from their schackles and made legal they will be demanding reparations, there will be many unaffordable government programs to help the poor downtrodden ex-illegals, taking from the givers and giving to the takers.
After slavery the souths economy was in ruins until all of the economic forces ran its course(they still haven't). The newly freed slaves were kept in a low social status and prevented from making economic gains because of old beliefs and prejudices. The government, in an attempt to help the horrible situation out began the failed programs that prevented the needed social changes from occuring(what those social changes are are anybodys guess)
Anyways, here I am talking like I am some sort of intellectual, at times I have a feeling of clarity in thinking, but there was a time, not too long ago, that a man could make a living, own a house, provide for his family, by laboring at the local gas station pumping gas, or working landscaping. I can remember my dad working in advertising for 30 years, working diligently and living frugally so he could send all four of his ungrateful children to college. I also remember working a half day on Saturday because that is what was expected even up until the late 70's.
So back on track, I saw the teasers on tv today and laughed my ass off, but in the future it will probably be just about as funny as a white guy in black face.
There is no hope for the future
We are in ruins, our society is crumbling around us and we don't even comprehend what is happening to us.
And Koz5150 is on track with identifying the business problem as "Rightsizing" But we all have to be concious of the problem of simply cutting manufacturing expenses instead of rightsizing.
We have cut our costs but our customers have all become unemployed, there is a balance that has to be kept, government intervention through wealth re-distribution either through direct hand-outs or protectionism through tax exemptions or other means is not the answer. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 12:09 am: |
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quote:I too agree. My problem is that on too many occasions, the big unions know about the slackers, but turn a blind eye to them in favor of bolstering membership (money). That is exactly what caused my two friends to grow to hate their union at the GM plant here in Texas.
I have worked in 2 union facilities. I have the EXACT same issue with them. There was no incentive to work HARDER.
Nearly 20 years ago, when I literally doubled my coworker's output(without working all that hard), I was told under no uncertain terms that I should be working that hard. And was threatened. I didn't take to being threatened all that well. So I continued to work harder. The next week, my tool box was vandalized.
Nice treatment of a "Union brother".
The nearly $30 an hour for HD line work is a disgusting amount of compensation for unskilled labor IMHO. |
Rocketsprink
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 01:18 am: |
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Do not lump all unions and their members together. Plenty of lazy non union workers in this country worried more about how to work less for more. Either you have a work ethic, or you don't.
Why does everyone here seem so concerned with how much the H-D employees make an hour? Sorry, but it seems like envy.
H-D don't cost $20,000 because of labor, period.
What would be a fair wage for the workers? And contrary to popular belief, guys that "sweep the floors" at HD don't make $30 an hour.
Guess they should ••••• that work out to some outside contractor that uses illegals that will charge $20 an hour to HD, pay the employee $5 an hour under the table, and no taxes.
Ever consider the fact that some one is looking down at you guys, considering YOU as unskilled labor and wondering why you get paid so much? Get off the high horse and stop looking down your nose at others. Do you like it when it's done to you?
Why should the American worker be knocked down to the level of a 3rd world worker? Good idea. Let's shrink the tax base a little more. HD just got a $25,000,000 tax break from the state of Wisconsin. I don't pity HD one bit. |
Ft_bstrd
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 01:42 am: |
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Why does everyone here seem so concerned with how much the H-D employees make an hour? Sorry, but it seems like envy.
Can't the same be said for the constant complaints about CEO pay?
That kinda seems like envy too, doesn't it? |
Blake
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 09:07 am: |
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I think folks should be paid whatever they can negotiate, what they are worth on the market. I sure don't think the folks working on the H-D line are "unskilled", at least they shouldn't be unskilled. To me "unskilled" is putting socks in a box. I doubt Wandel could work a spot on the H-D line without significant training and oversight. That may or may not say a lot.
Steve,
My friends' experience was converse to yours in a way. They complained about some of the slackers and goof-offs to their union rep, and got a surprisingly honest answer. The guy actual told them that the union wouldn't go after poor performers since they added more to the union membership, meaning it took three slackers to do the job of two honorable workers, thus the union ranks were bolstered by slackers.
Rocco's sprinkler union isn't likely to suffer such nonsense. I know Rocco wouldn't!  He's the kind of man who works harder for free than many do for top wages. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 08:35 pm: |
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quote:What would be a fair wage for the workers?
Check around the area for comparable employment. It's NOWHERE NEAR $30 an hour. We have production level jobs at my new employer. It's about $20 an hour, and nowhere near the benefits. And THAT is considered high wages for the amount of experience and skill level needed for that position.
The Unions are pricing themselves out of a job. And a good reason why so many companies are outsourcing. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 08:43 pm: |
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Not all union members are thieves and scum...
But the ones who are get paid a lot more to do it.
The assemblymen at HD shouldn't be "unskilled"... but having test ridden quite a few new HD bikes myself it is my estimation that they are either less skilled or just more careless than the average Japanese worker on a similar assembly line.
Based on a personal comparison of overall quality of the machines presented to the public at an international trade show for test riding purposes. It seems to me that if I were putting my bikes out there, I would want the best of the best for everyone to see. |
Steve_mackay
| | Posted on Sunday, September 19, 2010 - 08:46 pm: |
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quote:Ever consider the fact that some one is looking down at you guys, considering YOU as unskilled labor and wondering why you get paid so much?
The funny thing is, I had a chance to work at HD in the early 90s. I turned it down. Right now, I'm quite happy I did. I look at the experience I've gained since then. If I had stayed at HD, I'd be stuck between a rock and a hard place.
The biggest problem my new employer has is FINDING experienced, skilled labor.
When they looked over my qualifications, they asked me to start that day, for approximately 10% more than I was making. This is literally 4 hours after it was announced that my employer of 13 years was closing their doors.
Do you think those soon to be unemployed line workers will have that type of experience while looking for new employment? |
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