| Author | Message | ||
     Just_ziptab |
the CEO makes OVER 6000$ an hour... you can come back to work for 16 bucks and hour and no benefits after we fire you... how nice... So at $30.50 an hour,196 combined workers "earn" in an hour .....what Wandellio "takes" in an hour. Help me understand the logic of all that. I don't get it. I wish all the workers found a new job tomorrow and trashed the place on the way out and all the dealers signed up for the next best thing to sell. | ||
| 86129squids |
Blk Uly:     | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Rapid growth, bad management and high priced products that a lot of peolpe can not afford to buy right now. Of course they are going to have to cut somewhere. They are not going to pay employees to surplus products or sit around and do nothing. It sucks that people are going to lose their job. But if they don't trim some of the fat there won't be an h-d anymore. $30.50 an hour PLUS bennys to make parts/assemble what most people use as a recreational vehicle... wow!!! I am in the wrong job field. I don't even make that on time and a half (which they are now taking away)... | ||
| Iamike |
I just wonder how many middle class people will buy any bikes next year when they find out their taxes went up $9,000? | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
But, but our dear leader said he wasn't going to raise taxes?! | ||
| Koz5150 |
So at $30.50 an hour,196 combined workers "earn" in an hour .....what Wandellio "takes" in an hour. Sounds like everbody is overpaid to me... | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Even at "$6000 an hour", THAT compensation has very little impact on the bottom line. It's fun to complain about, but it isn't very material. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
I really don't like hearing that $30/hour is overpaid. HD was making tons of money off of a luxury product, and was compensating the employees a fair percentage of the profits. Now that they aren't selling as many bikes, HD is doing whatever they can to stay profitable. | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Even at "$6000 an hour", THAT compensation has very little impact on the bottom line. How so? Every little "impact" adds up at the end of the day....at least that's how my check book works...........  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Wages are always relative. $30/hour is just enough for some and a fortune for others. It doesn't matter how much you make, someone somewhere is going to be envious of what you make and feel you are "overpaid". | ||
| Cyclonedon |
Even at "$6000 an hour", THAT compensation has very little impact on the bottom line. that sure as hell would improve my bottom line! Fatty, your starting to sound like a congressman! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The question is whether or not you would vote for me.  Sure CEOs who run multi-million/billion dollar companies make more than the rank and file. It's easy to look at someone who makes $1,500,000 in cash money and say "think of how many workers his salary could provide for". It's all relative. That CEO's income is equal to 30 employees making $50,000 per year. A person making $50,000 per year could pay the income of 33 employees in Bangladesh. | ||
| Cyclonedon |
A person making $50,000 per year could pay the income of 33 employees in Bangladesh. if the CEOs who run multi-million/billion dollar companies keep forcing the American worker's wages lower, maybe we'll all get a chance to live like the people in Bangladesh. They are exporting all the manufacturing jobs overseas now anyway! name an American made sport motorcycle that you would like to purchase. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Buell. 8/14/10 | ||
| Whatever |
The problem is the corporate structure, of which hd is a part of. It is screw the man/ woman on bottom. Does not matter if you have been there for 30 years, or if you are skilled trades or professional. Does not matter if your dad and your grandpa/ grandma worked there for 30 years and no one ever took a sick day, never had an accident, etc. Does not matter if you are skilled trades or a PhD. Did you notice how slyly the article mentioned 30 dollars an hour with no details? WSJ is walking a fine line, bc if hardley leaves MKE then they could become a scapegoat... I met A LOT of professional engineers at the Rockerbox that used to work for hardley co. You want to market a luxury item on the PRINCIPAL that it is a family business and loyalty is everything in America. Don't get me started on the patriotic bullcrap they keep pushing, when their business practices reflect no such thing... Then, don't lend a hand to a part of your own company that IS a family business that could stand alone on a scaled down version (BMC). I feel bad for all the employees, but they (the mofoco) are shooting themselves in the foot. Why does everyone defend them??? (Besides the obvious, like you currently work for a dealership or supplier or the mofo)??? Why don't those same people that make MILLIONS take responsibility for their bad decisions??? In my opinion they should have milked BMC and MV-A for every penny they could have... would have at least kept maybe half of the workers on board with scaled back hours and production. Just my opinion. But I am no expert. I just do not get why people are defending HDMC when they have made a series of bad decisions that keep getting worse... the 'move out of wisconsin' is just a carrot on a stick to promote the MKE and Tomahawk (sp?)paycut and layoffs... it is so obvious to me now... Now I gotta go ride...  (Message edited by Whatever on September 10, 2010) | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
would have at least kept maybe half of the workers on board with scaled back hours and production. I thought doing that was part-o-the plan.... | ||
| Xl1200r |
$30/hour is just enough for some and a fortune for others. Agreed, but that's less than I get paid (not by much) and think they (and I, myself, truthfully) are overpaid. I'd bet that my cost of living in the Northeast is more than it would be in the midwest, and yet I can support a entire household on my own with a brand new car, a dog, 2 Buell's in the garage and no second income source of any kind. With what's going on in unneeded car and bike payments, I could easily support a stay at home wife and 2 kids on my salary, I'd bet. However, all that said, I recently went and saw "The Other Guys" at the movie theater and stayed to watch the credits. The things they showed in that have really changed my perspective on things, and the most alarming to me was the change in CEO pay compared to general employee pay over history. Worth a watch, it's not long... http://www.cinemablend.com/new/Watch-The-Other-Guy s-Closing-Credits-Explaining-Economic-Collapse-200 38.html | ||
| Rainman |
It's not about loyalty. It's not about family. It's not about a way of life or a lifestyle. It's about profits and survival. Loyalty was all marketing and people bought into it. I hope for the best for Harley and its workers. I like HD simply because my local HD/Buell dealer -- they still have Buell on the wall and three of the five full-time techs ride Buells home at night -- is great. Right now, I have financial issues of my own and I'm cutting my budget way back. I'm another consumer not consuming. | ||
| Pwnzor |
$30.50 per hour plus benefits is exactly what's wrong with this whole picture. I'm sorry but it's way to much to be getting paid for ASSEMBLY! I really don't care how much the CEO makes, that's a deal he struck for himself and God bless him or anybody else that can get it. I'll grant that the guy currently in charge has made some $h1tty decisions (in my opinion) but maybe if the people who are assembling motorcycles weren't making $62,000 per year then Harleys wouldn't cost so damn much. ANYBODY, yes I said it... ANYBODY can do that job with BASIC motor skills. I can't see it being worth more than $15 per hour, especially after all the Harleys I test rode at IMS fell so short in the areas of fit and finish. Compared to Victory, Yamaha and Kawasaki cruiser bikes, Harley finished in a distant last place. No wonder China is taking over the world of manufacturing. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Oh I almost forgot to mention it's Obama's fault. | ||
| Doerman |
Here's Wandell's compensation package for 2009: Salary $650,025 Bonus $780,030.00 Restricted stock awards $2,858,007 All other compensation $22,515 Option awards $ $2,053,002 For a total of a potential compensation of a little north of $6M. Bonus: Paid based on achieved performance Restricted stock awards: This stock is awarded, but can not be exercised all at once and certainly not in one year All other compensation These are perks that are most likely paid out Options awards Stock options awarded do not mature in the same year. He will have to buy the options and bank on increases in the stock price. Yet, his recorded compensation is $6M. His real compensation for 2009 was less than that since HD did not meet all financial performance required for all of the above to kick in. SEC requires that all potential compensation is recorded for purposes of properly disclosure of potential liabilities to the shareholders. I bring this up since it has become so fashionable have a good outcry over CEO's "compensation". I am only shedding light on what comprises the potential compensation not saying that Wandell is worth it. Not at all! | ||
| Doerman |
ANYBODY, yes I said it... ANYBODY can do that job with BASIC motor skills. In principle, you are correct. In practice, it is not that simple. I ran a manufacturing plant (molded bathroom components). I found it beneficial to compensate the those workers well that had experience and motivation to continually improve the plant and the product. A plant is a very complex thing. You can not understand the complexities in detail from the CEO's chair. Motivated workers can. They are priceless. Close proximity of leadership and physical plant is very valuable. If you "off shore" production, you know very little about what is being produced except for the engineering and design you shipped via DSL to the remote plant. | ||
| Bienhoabob |
The revenge of a new "casual" employee, usually is poor workmanship. I can see the return of the "AMF' days in the making. | ||
| Kenm123t |
Doer they key word your missing is Union Most of the time if you give one employee a bonus some other employee will grievence you and you will end up giving all employees the bonus. Granted this is contract dependant. Really what HD needs to do is Clean house never let any one back in that ever worked there. rebuild the team and culture suck it up for 6 months. Its the only way to solve the revenge factor and greed factor Sucks but thats reality | ||
| Sifo |
I ran a manufacturing plant (molded bathroom components). I found it beneficial to compensate the those workers well that had experience and motivation to continually improve the plant and the product. And this becomes one of my biggest issues with unions. Under union rules one typically gets higher compensation just for years of service. This leads to people with 30 years of experience who are less productive that a motivated employee with only a year of experience and a good head on his/her shoulders. I have two long term riding buddies that have ties with AT&T. One was a manager over a service garage who retired just a few years ago. The other has 30 years in working as a splicer. They both complain about the union creating an atmosphere where the weak thrive right along with the strong. That tends to make only the strongest few really work to their potential. There's just no point to it other than for personal satisfaction. It's far easier to just go with the flow and enjoy being a higher class of worker than your non-union neighbor who has to prove him/herself every day. | ||
| Brighton |
It's easy to look at someone who makes $1,500,000 in cash money and say "think of how many workers his salary could provide for". As a well paid CEO myself I can appreciate the sacrifices of the little people that make my salary possible. So, let me thank all you little people, even the ones not yet laid-off. Thank You! | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
And this becomes one of my biggest issues with unions. Under union rules one typically gets higher compensation just for years of service. This leads to people with 30 years of experience who are less productive that a motivated employee with only a year of experience and a good head on his/her shoulders. Haha, 100% right! With HD laying off all of the lower seniority people, what is left? The slow, lazy, unproductive upper seniority people. | ||
| Sifo |
My splicer friend has to attend pole climbing school periodically for safety reasons. The safety gear is only rated for 300 pounds. (ONLY!) So one of the guys in his garage is way over that limit and could climb the pole it had a ham sandwich waiting for him. This lard ass goes to training and just sits around doing nothing, but still gets passed for being there. By all rights he should have to loose weight or have his job changed just because he is unsuitable to do the job. Lucky for all involved he is protected by the union. It would suck to be partnered with this lard ass in the field. If he can't climb a pole in training, he sure isn't going to climb one in the field either. | ||
| Whatever |
Hey Brighton, you married??? It is not just the unions causing this dynamic... I had a boss who showed up half the time and he passed off grants to me with nothing done and half the money gone (that was a government employer) Then there are the guys who sat on their asses all day... at the airport doing nothing while we busted our ass' to make it work... that was a cooperative, cab driving company... Hell, I had a guy almost run me over doing 40 mph and our plant has 25 mph speed limit... and he was a Professional Engineer... Ther is waste and slack everywhere... if it isn't the union, it is Bob is married to the CEO's daughter or Judy has some serious dirt on the head of the government... I almost asked who's dick I had to suck to get a job at the State after I had interview #14... and I knew more about the programs than the people who were interviewing me... then I though better of it... It is always something... where I am at I am starting to lock myself in my office to work more and just telling people "I really don't want to hear it" when they start spouting some filth at me... Just sayin'  | ||
| Whatever |
Oh, and thank you for having a civil conversation, I just think it is pretty abhorrent how some of these threads have been going lately... I do not like it... |
