| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
Vote: Present | ||
| Sifo |
Sifo, That sounds similar to the Syrian woman's story that I mentioned earlier. But long before the Internet, young Wafa Sultan used to sort through the thrown away paper at the local falafel (sp?) stand when her mother wasn't looking; the owner used paper from old books and magazines to wrap the food. A window to truth was opened for that curious and precosious little girl. Her story through eventual emigration to America is gripping and full of insight into the Arab muslim culture as influeced by islamism. In the case of Rafraf it was a floodgate that opened up for her. Having to all at once, deal with so much that she knew about the world was all lies, while also living the reality of Baghdad during the shock and awe campaign. It really is an amazing story. | ||
| Blake |
Cory! I'd pay money to see your story in print. I'd encourage you to please write it. John (M2me), There you go yet again. No one here is saying the islamists don't currently enjoy the protection of the American constitution. You are railing against a make believe opponent, typical for most all your nonsensical inaneties here. You are a disrespectful, dishonest, ignorant fool who is incapable of intelligent debate. Get off of my web site. Leave! You are not wanted here. Go away. | ||
| M2me |
So show one place in this entire thread where anyone has suggested that they don't have a right to build the mosque there. It's simply about what common sense should tell you about if it will help heal the wounds of 9/11 or become an open festering wound. My common sense is different. My common sense tells me that the people behind this community center and mosque were not behind the attacks of 9/11 anymore than a group of American Catholics or Jews or Hindus were. 9/11 was an attack on America. I don't care what your religion is. We were all attacked equally. My common sense tells me that American Muslims should not be treated differently around Ground Zero or around any particular geographical area of the U.S. than any other religious group is. I don't bring religion into a political discussion. As long as you're a law abiding American I don't care what your religion is. Your religion is between you and God or Allah or a potato chip that looks like Jesus. If you want to build a community center a block away from Ground Zero committed to the worship of a potato chip I don't have a problem with that. It's none of my business. Obey the laws, pay your taxes and worship in whatever way you choose. That's what America is about. | ||
| M2me |
What's up with BO refusing to speak about the wisdom of building the mosque? He can't speak about the wisdom of building a mosque. He took an oath to uphold the Constitution. He can't say that it's wise or unwise to build a mosque, or a church, or a synagogue in some particular spot. It's not up to the President to make that kind of decision. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
John, You would have to agree, though, that placing the mosque within throwing distance of ground zero demonstrates a profound tone deafness. If all 19 were Mormons, or Baptists, or Branch Dividians and stated that their reason for committing 9/11 was religious, we wouldn't be attempting to separate the act from the faith. Hell, McVeigh wasn't even Christian and people keep trying to make him one. Would an FBI field office built on the site of Waco be insensitive? (Message edited by ft_bstrd on August 25, 2010) | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"Science is my religion." --Timothy McVeigh | ||
| M2me |
If all 19 were Mormans, or Baptists, or Branch Dividians and stated that their reason for committing 9/11 was religious, we wouldn't be attempting to separate the act from the faith. Let's say 9/11 was committed by 19 Baptists who claimed that they did it for religious reasons. Do all Baptists necessarily support the actions of these 19 whackos? I wouldn't think so. Lots of groups have extremists and bad people in them. But you don't paint the whole group with the same brush. That's the very definition of prejudice. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Let's say 9/11 was committed by 19 Baptists who claimed that they did it for religious reasons. Do all Baptists necessarily support the actions of these 19 whackos? I wouldn't think so. Lots of groups have extremists and bad people in them. But you don't paint the whole group with the same brush. That's the very definition of prejudice. No, NO Baptist group would have supported their actions (unlike MANY Muslims domestically and in other countries). Additionally, you wouldn't find someone trying to build a Baptist Church at ground zero even though it would be their Constitutional right. Add one more facet in that the actions of those 19 Baptists would be in contravention rather than current teaching of Baptist faith. The Baptists don't even support or acknowledge (and actually protest) the actions of Westboro "Baptist". | ||
| M2me |
The Baptists don't even support or acknowledge (and actually protest) the actions of Westboro "Baptist". Boom, there you go. Perfect example. All Baptists should be kept 300 yards away from military funerals because of the actions of Westboro Baptists. I am not going to listen to your lies that all Baptists don't support what Westboro Baptists do. Baptists are Baptists. I don't even care if a Baptist has lost a son or daughter. Baptists are despicable. See how dumb that is? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The difference is that Baptist protest Westboro. I don't see any Muslims protesting the actions of Rauf (or any other extremist groups). http://www.news-leader.com/article/20100807/BREAKI NG01/100807009/Westboro-protest-is-a-no-show-count er-protestors-celebrate-anyway When was the last time you saw "moderates" protesting extremist groups? Their silence speaks volumes. Many of the Patriot Guard Riders are Christians and Baptists as well: http://www.patriotguard.org/Home/WhoRidesWithUs/ta bid/164/Default.aspx | ||
| Blake |
A greater display of dishonesty would be difficult to find. Only a despicable dishonest idiot would read this thread and assert that anyone is contending that Muslims are despicable, so there is yet another made-up straw man to rail against by an idiot who is apparently not just unwilling to be educated concerning islamism, but wouldn't be able to comprehend the literature anyway. He cannot even comprehend the simplest of concepts in this very discussion. It's tough to believe that someone could be so incredibly willfully moronic. Get off of my web site despicable idiot. You are unwelcome here. Do you understand? Am I not making myself clear? | ||
| Blake |
Jeremy, Please. Ignore the troll. | ||
| M2me |
When was the last time you saw "moderates" protesting extremist groups? Their silence speaks volumes. Moderate Muslims have been screaming at the top of their lungs since 9/11. The "liberal media" is largely responsible for the silence, not moderate Muslims. The "liberal media" wants us in a state of fear and hatred. They want us to fear and hate each other. It's a lot easier for multi-national corporations to feed off us like leeches that way. Gotta keep the people distracted and divided. A new credit card or new car or bottle of Viagra is what you really need. Don't question anything. It's too scary.
CAIR Anti terrorism campaigns | ||
| Jima4media |
Jeremy, Please don't extract a quote without the rest of the context. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Timothy_McVeigh#Polit ical_and_religious_views | ||
| M2me |
I enjoy the back and forth with Ft_bstrd, Sifo, Aesquire, etc. They treat me somewhat respectfully and I try to do the same. I don't think any of these guys are despicable idiots. We have differences of opinions. There is nothing despicable about that. It makes things interesting. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
CAIR can make all the statements they like. Where are the regular Joe Muslims? There are NO Muslims that think this mosque is a bad idea? CAIR is not moderate nor a friendly organization to the United States. I don't trust what they say any farther than I can throw their headquarters building. http://www.foxnews.com/politics/2009/01/30/fbi-cut s-ties-cair-following-terror-financing-trial/ http://www.newsmax.com/Emerson/cair-hamas-Palestin e-Committee/2010/03/15/id/352646 http://www.newsmax.com/Emerson/cair-fbi/2009/12/01 /id/336552 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Jeremy, Please don't extract a quote without the rest of the context. What you mean this rest of the context: "The Guardian reported that McVeigh wrote a letter to them claiming to be an agnostic and that he did not believe in a hell.[81][82] McVeigh once said that he believed the universe was guided by natural law, energized by some universal higher power that showed each person right from wrong if they paid attention to what was going on inside them." | ||
| Jima4media |
"McVeigh was the only son and the second of three children of William and Mildred "Mickey" McVeigh, who were Irish Catholics. His parents divorced when he was 10 years old and he was raised by his father." According to his authorized biography, "his only sustaining relief from his unsatisfied sex drive was his even stronger desire to die." "While in the military, McVeigh used much of his spare time to read about firearms, sniper tactics, and explosives" In 1993, he drove to Waco, Texas during the Waco Siege to show his support. At the scene, he distributed pro-gun rights literature and bumper stickers, such as "When guns are outlawed, I will become an outlaw." McVeigh later said he considered "a campaign of individual assassination," with "eligible" targets including Attorney-General Janet Reno, Judge Walter S. Smith Jr. of Federal District Court, who handled the Branch Davidian trial and Lon Horiuchi, a member of the FBI hostage-rescue team who shot and killed Vicki Weaver in a standoff at a remote cabin at Ruby Ridge, Idaho, in 1992. McVeigh's only known political affiliations were his voter registration with the Republican Party of New York when he lived in Buffalo, New York, and a membership in the National Rifle Association while in the military In a recorded interview with Time magazine[80] McVeigh professed his belief in "a god", although he said he had "sort of lost touch with" Catholicism and "I never really picked it up, however I do maintain core beliefs." Throughout his childhood, he and his father were Roman Catholic and regularly attended daily Mass at Good Shepherd Church in Pendleton, New York. These sentences paint a different picture of the man than "science is my religion". Roman Catholic quiter from a broken home, sexually frustrated, Republican NRA gun nut, who is the very model of the modern American Terrorist. That is what I read. 99.999% of scientists would not put themselves in the same group with Timothy McVeigh. Jim | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Calling him a scientist is about as genuine and sincere as calling him a Christian. That was my point. | ||
| Aptbldr |
Iraqi (Sunni) woman who served me coffee morning after 9/11 said something like, "... calling those men (terrorists) Muslim is about as accurate as calling them Christians". Good-grief, you guys stay up late. | ||
| Aesquire |
But that same women would be in fear for her life if she made that statement in front of a news camera. For good reason. Evil men use religion to gain power & wealth. Period fraking dot. They would order her death with a smile. That's the radicals. Or terrorists. Or "the true followers". Same guys. The normal folk in many "native" cultures would stone her to death for being raped. They might even agree with her ( hypothetical) tv comments. I don't want to live under 250 year old Christian rule either. But this is today. Today the mass murder, slave owning, racist society is islamic. | ||
| Court |
>>>He can't speak about the wisdom of building a mosque. Of course he can't . . . he's on his 6th vacation this year. But before he went . . . He commented one day. Then said exactly the opposite thing the next day. The guy is frankly clueless as a leader. | ||
| Blake |
>>> Evil men use religion to gain power & wealth. Period fraking dot. Too true. You just described "the blessed prophet" himself, muhammed. | ||
| Sifo |
Roman Catholic quiter from a broken home, sexually frustrated, Republican NRA gun nut, who is the very model of the modern American Terrorist. How is this "The Model" of the modern American terrorist? He was a one off. Singular. Following no one and having no followers. Let's break down what you said... Roman Catholic quiter That would be NOT religious. broken home Is there a link between broken homes and terrorism? I've not heard of one yet. I do know of terrorists that didn't come from broken homes. sexually frustrated I think it would be easily proven that very few of the sexually frustrated become terrorists. This may be the strongest marker you mention for identifying a potential terrorist, and it's pretty weak. Republican NRA gun nut I find it interesting that you don't put a comma between Republican and NRA. The NRA is non-partisan. They do support democrats that support gun rights. He was also an EX-NRA member. Perhaps had he been better aligned with what the NRA preaches about weapons he would never have gone the terrorism route. I guess if you vote Republican in a primary you are labeled for life. OK. It doesn't fit into any American terrorist profile though. Pretty much all of the domestic terrorist attacks of the last 5 or so years have been from folks who have registered Democrat. Go figure. I'm guessing you didn't put too much thought into your terrorist profile. | ||
| Doug_s |
hmmm.... so, you are saying mohammed was a republican, and jesus was a communist...  first of all, no one is trying to build a mosque at ground zero. someone is trying to build a new community center where existing buildings stand. if it were ground zero, there wouldn't be anything to demolish or renovate. secondly, everyone knows that countries living under radical islamist law are inhospitable to civil rights as we know it. no one argues this fact. no one participating in this thread thinks it's ok to show any quarter to these radical freaks who are certainly not muslims, even according to the vast majority of muslims around the world. i'd say it's unfortunate that, at the time of 9/11, the republican administration did not go after the perpetrators with the full weight of its american military might; it instead went after iraq, which had absolutely nothing to do with 9/11, because america wanted oil. so, now we have squandered billions, (all deficit spending, btw), squandered thousands and thousands of lives, and have lost years & years in the battle against these freaks. it's ironic that the "secret muslim", the "socialist" barack, is now in fact the one who is finally trying to do something about it. too bad that, after nine years wasted, billions of dollars & thousands of lives wasted, the patience of americans wasted, it may be too little/too late. but, here on our own soil, america needs to set a shining example of its principles of freedom, justice, democracy, and toleration. protesting this muslim community center ain't cutting it - it's simply playing into the hands of the freaks outside the usa who are saying "see, i told ya so - america is all talk, but all it wants to do is persecute muslims". yust because some other country refuses to protect civil rights, does not mean we should stoop to that level. sometimes you can catch more flies w/honey than w/vinegar... doug s. | ||
| Roadcouch98 |
Another moderate Muslim, right? - Muslim Television Channel Founder Charged With Beheading His Wife Monday, February 16, 2009 By Joshua Rhett Miller PrintShareThis Muzzammil Hassan, right, founder of Bridges TV, is charged with murder in the beheading of his wife, Aasiya Hassan, left, in Orchard Park, N.Y. The estranged wife of a Muslim television executive feared for her life after filing for divorce last month from her abusive husband, her attorney said — and was then found beheaded Thursday in his upstate New York television studio. Aasiya Z. Hassan, 37, was found dead on Thursday at the offices of Bridges TV in Orchard Park, N.Y., near Buffalo. Her husband, Muzzammil Hassan, 44, has been charged with second-degree murder. "She was very much aware of the potential ramification her filing for divorce might have," said attorney Elizabeth DiPirro, whose law firm, Hogan Willig, represented Aasiya Hassan in the divorce proceeding. "But she wanted to proceed despite the potential for it to erupt." DiPirro said the couple had "physical confrontations off and on" for their entire eight-year marriage that had recently escalated to death threats. The grounds for divorce were "cruel and inhuman treatment," DiPirro said, referring to mulitple prior incidents of abuse. She declined to elaborate. "We were worried about the situation becoming volatile," DiPirro said. The couple had two children, ages 4 and 6, DiPirro said. Muzzammil Hassan also has two children, ages 17 and 18, from a previous marriage. DiPirro said Aasiya was a brave mother who sought a better life for her young children. "She was a very brave woman who was extremely devoted to her children and had come to this decision after a long, thoughtful process and was determined to change her life for herself and her children," DiPirro said. Orchard Park Police Chief Andrew Benz said authorities continue to search for the murder weapon. Asked if the slaying is being investigated as an honor killing, Benz replied, "It's safe to say we're investigating all the angles we can, all the possibilities in conjunction with the district attorney's office. We're looking at whatever we might come across." Benz said officers were called to the couple's home on Feb. 6, when Aasiya Hassan had obtained an order of protection barring her husband from the home. "He was served with divorce papers that day at the [television studio]," Benz said. "He came back to the residence and was pounding on doors and broke one window … He left the premises that night." Benz said Hassan's body was found on an office floor at the Orchard Park television station. He declined to discuss further details of the killing other than to say investigators believe Muzzammil Hassan acted alone. "At this point, that's what we believe," Benz told FOXNews.com. Muzzammil Hassan, who founded Bridges TV in November 2004 to counter anti-Islam stereotypes, surrendered to police Thursday. Hassan touted the network as the "first-ever full-time home for American Muslims," according to a press release. "Every day on television we are barraged by stories of a 'Muslim extremist, militant, terrorist, or insurgent,'" Hassan said in the 2004 release. "But the stories that are missing are the countless stories of Muslim tolerance, progress, diversity, service and excellence that Bridges TV hopes to tell." Hassan, who was arraigned Thursday, remains jailed at the Erie County Holding Center. No bail had been set and an attorney for Hassan was not listed, according to a jail spokeswoman. Hassan has a court hearing scheduled for Wednesday afternoon, Benz said. Dr. Khalid Qazi, a friend of the couple and president of the Muslim Public Affairs Council of Western New York, said the channel had been under financial strain. "I cannot believe it — I know them both well," Qazi told the Buffalo News. "I cannot get a handle on this." Samira Khatib, a friend of the couple, said Aasiya Hassan encouraged her husband to launch the cable channel. "They were really more than married — they encouraged each other in everything," Khatib told the Buffalo News. "She was such a lovely person." According to a Web site for Bridges TV, Aasiya Hassan "came up with the idea" for the network. The Web site, which shows an undated photo of the couple, identifies her maiden name as Aasiya Zubair. "Bridges TV is deeply shocked and saddened by the murder of Aasiya [Zubair] Hassan and subsequent arrest of Muzzammil Hassan," a statement posted late Monday read. "Our deepest condolences and prayers go out to the families of the victim. We request that their right to privacy be respected." | ||
| Sifo |
If a building getting heavily damaged by large pieces of the first plane crash in the 9/11 attack isn't a part of ground zero then what the hell is. Go spread your lies elsewhere. Your not worth my time. | ||
| Reindog |
In true Liberal doubleplusgoodquackthinking, the Cordoba Mosque is no longer called a mosque, it is a community center. Oops, the Cordoba mosque is now called Park51. Oops, I misspoke...Liberals are no longer Liberals, rather they are now Progressives. This is all symptomatic of a psychological disorder. Americans do not have the word "stupid" tattooed on their forehead and are waking up to the nonsense that I will politely call the Left. Onwards towards 1984. Or is it backwards? | ||
| Doug_s |
If a building getting heavily damaged by large pieces of the first plane crash in the 9/11 attack isn't a part of ground zero then what the hell is. Go spread your lies elsewhere. Your not worth my time. look, sifo - you may feel that the buildings shown in the pic below are ground zero. i, and many others do not. it doesn't make me (or them) a liar.  sifo, it seems anyone w/a worldwiew different than yours, isn't worth your time. except for hurling insults at them - you seem to have plenty of time for that. you have hidden behind your attacks of me as an excuse for not addressing any one single point that i have ever made, in this or any other thread on the quick board. please sifo, prove that i am not worth your time, if all you can do is respond w/lame insults - STFU! thanks, doug s. |
