| Author | Message | ||
     Oldog |
Well doug do you think that the Iranians are just building a power house in the desert or do you think that they want to build A bombs? If they do build weapons then what? On Christians many Christians have done wrong In my name? So theres a religion called Jis-sim?, the primary difference is that Christians are called to share the basis of our faith, its a free choice to accept or not. The moslems intend forcible conversion.. it is the foundation of thier [faith.] cult Ignoring this will have the same consequence as the french dealt with in WW2 and the Germans, They ignored it funny it did not go away. 6 million Jews murdered in concentration camps by the Nazi's. whole reigons destroyed by the war, IF we had been paying attention and intervened earlier perhaps Hitler could have been stopped. are we going to repeat the mistake? | ||
| Aptbldr |
Nazis were able to systematically murder people ONLY after dehumanizing and stereotyping. | ||
| Reindog |
What is your point? Are you equating Christians with Nazis? Americans with Nazis? Islamo-Fascists with Nazis? Badwebbers with Nazis? | ||
| Sifo |
All I can say is WOW! Hard to believe the crap that was posted today. I just hope these jokers are nothing but internet trolls trying to entertain themselves. If some of these comments are for real... WOW! | ||
| Aptbldr |
My point is the stereotyping and dehumanizing "discussion" occurring for the most part in this thread is outrageous. Think of the sponsors!!! At least it belongs on Backfire board. How are tits unacceptable and this kind of sad drivel okay? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Again, WHO IS SAYING TO GO OUT AND KILL MUSLIMS? | ||
| Aptbldr |
Olddog's comments, "...if we had done something sooner." That something may have included protesting as the German government/bureaucracy branded whole portions of Europe's population as non-persons and a threat to the Reich. And, Germans did it without Rupert Murdoch earing his living selling/telling the world about the resulting conflicts. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Who is branding whole portions of any population as "non-persons"? | ||
| Aptbldr |
"There isn't a muslim person who when asked about 9/11 won't put a "but" in the answer." | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Really? That's dehumanizing? Not like calling people "religious wack jobs". | ||
| Aptbldr |
No, it's an example of branding whole populations. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
"9/11 was bad, BUT the US had it coming." | ||
| Sifo |
I just can't see continuing this conversation with any persons who refuse to accept that building a mosque at ground zero is going to do exactly the opposite of what the Imam is claiming he wants to do. It isn't going to bring the US and Islam to better relations. It is going to be an ongoing wedge issue. Anyone who can't see that is so far beyond reason that there's simply no point wasting time talking to them. | ||
| Reindog |
Sifo, It is only a wedge issue because YOU are an Islamophobe (I read it in Time), a xenophobe, a hateful bigot, a racist, a homophobe, an all round scaliwag, and you probably kick puppies. Just relax, feel the love, and bliss out, man. Don't let those bad vibes harsh your mellow. | ||
| Sifo |
I love it when the puppies yelp! | ||
| Sifo |
Also, my brother had a sail boat named The Scaliwag. We had some good times on that boat! | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Only a moron argues ancient history as equal to current religious doctrine.  I've seen plenty of that demonstrated in this thread. | ||
| Aesquire |
Oldog, see my above post on leftists and islamofascists. I think the Soviets....ahem, the Russian leaders believe they can turn the fanatics against the "west", and then deal with them. I don't know the plan to deal with them ( be pretty bad security if I did ) but it's either denial or plans for nuclear strikes. Really, I'm perplexed how the leftists ( lumping together the fascists/progressive/communists. I know it's simplistic, but since they ALL lie about their goals....) plan to prevail once the "west" is destroyed. I also give a great deal of credit to the Soviets for causing the problem of violent aggressive jihad. Their brutal suppression of all faiths but their own ( stalinist communism ) led to much greater fanaticism in the muslim countries they conquered. See Afghanistan. Of course not all muslims are violent folk. Duh. There are over 200 million, worldwide who think killing us all off is a great idea, even if they, themselves have no intention of doing harm to others. ( per a poll.... take it with a salt lick ) But the number of people willing to murder in the name of their God, though small in proportion to the planetary population, is growing daily. ( less the ones killed, and that's not many now that Biden has won in Iraq.  He can take all the credit he wants. History is written by the victors, and it's not over yet ) Massive Saudi support for the madras's and Iranian support for hamas & hezbollah keeps the pot boiling. On purpose. If there are only a few hundred thousand willing to murder women and children, it's still an issue. Does anyone sane still doubt that THEY are at war, even if our politicians fear to admit it? Do you want a timeline, and quotes from those at war with us? The current offensive dates from at least the Carter admin. and previous actions during the Kennedy admin. are, in many cases the SAME people. Look who supported the Nazi's in WW2. Look who supported the Soviets, and still get aid from the Russians and China. This war is older than most on this board, and only the ONE genius that was successful, M. Atta, who died in his attack in 2001, actually got America to do more than make faces and bomb a few tents. Yet we STILL are not at war with "Islam", nor shall we ever be imo. Those who kill in the name of Allah claim that theirs is the one true Islam, and the voices of the "moderates" is drowned out by the thousands who support the murderers. The "moderates" are in fear for their lives. They have good reason. Is islam as a faith itself evil? It's arguable. It seems TO ME that islam is designed to be a tool to manipulate men. The ones who use it's behavioural tools can try for good, or evil. It's the evil ones that are the problem. I suspect Islam as a faith, because of the history of slavery, oppression, and conquest. The shopkeep from Iraq who asked me to tell the President to take out Saddam had prayers going all day. Him, I'm not worried about. Those who would turn his sons to murder, I do. Other cultures/faiths also have tools for manipulating people. Christianity has had it's dark days. The persecution of the monophsytites, the Crusades, ( a mixed evil/good ) certain churches protection of child rapists... all dark and regrettable moments in history. Not the top threat to freedom this century, I hope. If that changes, I'll be against them. Why I wonder does Doug_s keep "quoting" parts of the Bible about the trials and persecution of the Jewish tribes and claiming it's a reflection on Christians? I have doubts as to his sincerity. Or honesty. i guess it's ok for christians to proselytize that all non-believers will be going to hell. Well, yes. In fact it's part of the reason we have free speech. I assume most faiths proselytize that all non-believers will be going to hell. Isn't that part of the sales pitch? Ever been to a tent revival? Brimstone! Pitch! Devils with pitchforks! But also, Zion on the Hill! Angels! Miracles! Donate! Never heard "kill the ------", but I haven't been to that many. Long term I worry more about the Greenies, but, not counting the millions killed by the suppression of pesticides by malaria and other diseases, the Greenies have killed very few. Counting the poor people killed by deliberate lies and rules about DDT, etc. they are right up there. Israel? I have issues with any theocracy. Israel isn't really one, but some there do try. They are far from perfect, and I really do wish they were more free in their religious tolerance. On any scale of justice and fairness, they show up pretty damn good compared to their neighbors. ( Jordan has a decent King, and Lebanon WAS good before Syria invaded. ) The vast majority of the "palestinians" displaced were displaced by the Arabs back in 1947-on. Doug_s grasp of history is obviously colored by propaganda, and it's propaganda spread by the most evil folk around. Wish him luck in finding truth. | ||
| Blake |
Thank you Jeremy. It is truly strange how some need to argue against their own make-believe bigots. Some like to pretend they are all-knowing, scoffing at the creator. I happily befriend any muslim who reciprocates and have. Mohammed from South Yemen and I got to be great friends when I spent some time working in the Persian Gulf. Others from Egypt, not so much. Doug and his ilk like to talk about bigotry and dehumnizing of people, and rightly so. We absolutely MUST remain vigilant in that regard. The problem is that these frighteningly ignorant high-minded types don't have a clue about the systemic, pervasive bigotry, misogeny, racism, and dehumanizing propaganda that is deeply rooted in and runs rampant within Islamist states. It is in their state media, their Friday sermons at the mosque; it is in their schoolbooks. I attended university with a couple young men from Syria. They enjoyed MUCH priviledge as their family included some who where high ranking generals in the Syrian military. Then one day at lunch one of them made a bigoted remark disparaging Jews. A mutual friend asked, "what would you do if your sister wanted to marry a Jew?". Immediately without hesitation both of the Syrians burst forth in resolute rage, "I WOULD KILL HIM, CUT OFF HIS HEAD AND THROW IT INTO THE STREET!" When we asked "why" they recited as if on queue a litany of bizarre racist nonsense and hateful propaganda. Islamism is sister to naziism, the koran is its mein kompf. Most Germans weren't extremist Nazis, but they were obliged to support them or suffer unpleasant consequences. So too it is with islamism. Few muslims are extremists, but once under the influence of the islamists, they too are obliged to support them. What happened in Lebanon is what will happen everywhere islamists gain power. Islamism is not merely a religion. Islamism is totalitarianism with the expressed goal as mandated in the koran to subjugate the entire world, by force as needed. I guess if one is a high-minded type, the facts matter not. Oddly it appears more imporant to such self-appointed intellectuals to attack Jews and Christians and the Bible seeking desperately to create the idea of a moral equivalence between them and islamism. I ask simply that they compare/contrast the lives of the founders of the two major faiths, Islam/Mohammedism verses Christianity. The won't. They are not honest. Prove me wrong John (M2me), Doug or Contra. I dare you. Prove that you know the concept of integrity and for once be honest. Don't yet again put words into our mouths, just be honest for once. Stop making up stuff and deal with fact. Read the koran; learn about the actual history of muhammed and islamism; educate yourself on the brutally abusive misogenistic culture common in all islamist states. Open your eyes and read the koran you pathetic ignoramuses. Until you do, you have ZERO idea of what you speak. Try to comprehend the difference between ancient history versus current events backed by current islamist doctrine as mandated by the Koran and as exemplified by its founder, muhammed. Enlighten your ignorant selves. Until then, you have zero standing to insult others here, and if you continue in such dishonest ways, your posting privileges will be suspended. | ||
| Sifo |
Given that Marx saw Socialism as a stepping stone to Communism and the things that lead to, it's difficult to imagine an intelligent Jewish Socialist.  Just sayin'. | ||
| Geforce |
Ah but Blake, your experience doesn't outweigh their opinion... well said though. I've kept my mouth shut and watched this thread for a while now. Short of posting pictures, videos, and long stories about my experiences in an Islamic culture there is no way to communicate experience. I still remain in contact with some individuals that we were blessed to have with us "over there". They unlike many in the populace understood that ancient text doesn't apply to modern times. The problem is that one of my contacts is no longer with us. He was stripped naked, hung upside down above a public bridge and disemboweled for the sake of, what? The problem with Islam is the absolute acceptance of radicalism inside their own culture and religion. As others have said in this topic... Islam really is a few hundred years behind Christianity. If you don't believe us, then go live there and find out. It's heartbreaking. - posted on a DroidX. | ||
| Oldog |
"...if we had done something sooner." excerpt out of context, think of it, had we ( the us ) done some thing sooner could the deaths and misery been prevented or lessened? little known fact some in the us government at that time knew some things about the camps. can any one say truly that Irans nuclear ambissions are just electic power? when the leadership has stated in the press that they would destroy isreal the Jews from antiquity have called the area around jeruslam thier home. being that were on the bible, please explain the pillars of clowds and fire? no GOD? the passover as described above? parting the waters? OR New testimate Christs' miricales lasurs'es resirection after being dead 4 days?, Water into wine, feeding 5,000 men from a hand full of food, and having 12 baskets of scraps left, being seen by almost 600 people after the crusifiction? so just what did Mohamad do, The Mosque, in NYC is to be called the "Cordoba House" I call it a monument to conquest, just like jeruslam, just like cordoba spain. for the record I agree with Blake the Islamic cults that mistreat thier women, demand death or conversion, support and accept bombing, murder and terror as tools are Violent Brigands, I believe in the bible and what it says about faith, salvation, and hell please prove it wrong..We are waiting .. as far as manipulation of people, oh yeah willingly or other wise, are you willing to think for your self, and use values and principals as a guide post can we learn from our past mistakes, and are we paying attention to the REAL situation as it exists with the Moslems, funny the Beruit Marine Barrax was destroyed by moslem extreemests, did we learn ? the towers were destroyed by moslem extreemensts did we learn ? I guess when the Iranians detonate thier first bomb then every one holds up their hands and says Oh MY! I wonder where that bomb will be used Telaviv? New York? } | ||
| Sifo |
Short of posting pictures, videos, and long stories about my experiences in an Islamic culture there is no way to communicate experience. The book I've been reading the last couple of days deals with the Islamic culture from the perspective of a 22 year old girl during the Gulf war in Baghdad. Very enlightening. There's a part about when she first got access to the internet that was fascinating. I don't want to say too much, best to just read it if anyone has interest. http://www.badweatherbikers.com/buell/messages/406 2/589643.html?1282784936 | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The really sad thing is that I support Rauf building the mosque as supported by the 1st Amendment. They have every right to build it where the state of New York and the City of New York deem it legal to build it. My beef is the utter lack of reverence, respect, and quite frankly the sense of regret at what happened at 9/11. If my family member killed someone in cold blood, The last thing I would want to do is rub their face in it every day. If the organizers of this mosque wanted to increase tolerance and build bridges, a statement that although it is their right to build the mosque on that site, they have elected to build it else where. I would respect them for that. I did get one picture of the "moderate" Muslims protesting the mosque project: Moderate Muslim Protest | ||
| M2me |
I really like what Bloomberg said the other day.
You don't have to like Muslims or Jews or Christians but no American has the right to say that an area of New York or any area in the U.S. is off limits to a certain religion. Too many people have struggled, fought and died to protect and uphold our Constitution. Don't throw it out like last week's newspaper. That would be a million times more destructive to the U.S. than 9/11 was. | ||
| Oldog |
Fatty I guess thats the cultural difference, the Mind set. its a catch 22 they have the right, is it the right thing to do? were I in a position of authority I would say no to the project, at that location, for reasons that it would offend the living relatives of the victims. I think that moslem issues are going to have profound impact on "freedom of religion" in the future. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Don't throw it out like last week's newspaper. That would be a million times more destructive to the U.S. than 9/11 was. Agreed completely. The protests aren't against the 1st Amendment. They are in celebration of the 1st Amendment. All parts of it: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. | ||
| Sifo |
So show one place in this entire thread where anyone has suggested that they don't have a right to build the mosque there. It's simply about what common sense should tell you about if it will help heal the wounds of 9/11 or become an open festering wound. | ||
| Blake |
Sifo, That sounds similar to the Syrian woman's story that I mentioned earlier. But long before the Internet, young Wafa Sultan used to sort through the thrown away paper at the local falafel (sp?) stand when her mother wasn't looking; the owner used paper from old books and magazines to wrap the food. A window to truth was opened for that curious and precosious little girl. Her story through eventual emigration to America is gripping and full of insight into the Arab muslim culture as influeced by islamism. | ||
| Sifo |
What's up with BO refusing to speak about the wisdom of building the mosque? Isn't being the leader of the country all about wisdom? I wonder if King Solomon would have simply sidestepped the "wisdom" aspect. |
