| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
I had a lot of doubts about this when the arrests were first made. It's starting to look like there is very little to the case against the Hutaree militia. http://apnews.myway.com/article/20100429/D9FCD8I00 .html
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| B00stzx3 |
Aite...and would you be saying the same thing if they were Muslim? | ||
| Sifo |
I would say the same thing for any group of people who are rounded up and thrown in jail on trumped up charges. | ||
| Nukeblue |
no kidding??!! wow i never would have guessed. better stay away from those militia types! they might get you lol edit: not refering to your last post (Message edited by nuke-blue on April 29, 2010) | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Hmmmm...planning to make fake 911 calls, kill responding police officers, and then bomb their funerals. Sounds like some very patriotic and moral activities indeed. | ||
| Sifo |
All that's missing is the proof that any of that planning was actually going on. | ||
| Nukeblue |
you can talk about whatever you want. freedom of speech. i for sure would never condone that stuff. did you see the evidence that proved that they were planning that? or just heard what the media told you? | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Because the FBI gets these things wrong often? I have no reason to believe the FBI would lie to me. Glad to know they're protecting us from domestic and foreign terrorists. Maybe Hutaree and Bill Ayers can get the weather underground started again. Common ground allies. (Message edited by b00stzx3 on April 29, 2010) (Message edited by b00stzx3 on April 29, 2010) | ||
| Sifo |
Given that the Judge in the case is asking to see this evidence, I think it's fare to say that no one else has seen it either. All we have is the say so of the Feds. It seem odd for the Feds to say it to the media, yet hold back on evidence in the bond hearings. | ||
| Sifo |
Of course the Hutaree hasn't bombed the Pentagon, or anything else for that matter. I guess facts don't matter in this case though, do they? | ||
| Nukeblue |
very unlikely story though. if you're mad at the government, you want to hurt police? that makes no sense. unless these people were just dumb. and looking at the pics & vids i suspect that might be the case lol | ||
| Sifo |
There seems to be a back story where the leader of the group has a gripe with a local cop who asks for ID for very minor traffic stops such as checking on someone changing a flat tire. I have no doubt that this guy is a blow hard, and potentially not very bright, but to arrest 9 people because of one blow hard goes way beyond ridiculous. Of course with out a conspiracy all they have is a blow hard spouting off about getting back at the man. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
All these homegrown terrorist cells, they were just excercising their freedom of speech right? Planning to blow things up and kill civilians. No normal people plan or talk about those things, and they damn well had intention to do it. Not to mention the drugs, Nazi paraphenelia and bomb making materials. Who posseses bomb making materials? Terrorists, thats who. Hope they rot along with Al Queda. There's no God or Allah where these scumbags are going. | ||
| Sifo |
Where are you getting your info from? Drugs? Bomb making materials? Nazi paraphernalia if present isn't exactly a crime either. Now as the hearings have started it's looking like the talk wasn't even something that they all participated in. Just being in the presence of a nutter doesn't make you a terrorist. If it did we should be locking up Obama for associating with Bill Ayers. | ||
| Buellkowski |
18 U.S.C. § 2384 : US Code - Section 2384: Seditious conspiracy "If two or more persons in any State or Territory, or in any place subject to the jurisdiction of the United States, conspire to overthrow, put down, or to destroy by force the Government of the United States, or to levy war against them, or to oppose by force the authority thereof, or by force to prevent, hinder, or delay the execution of any law of the United States, or by force to seize, take, or possess any property of the United States contrary to the authority thereof, they shall each be fined under this title or imprisoned not more than twenty years, or both." to conspire: 1. To secretly plot or make plans together, often used regarding something bad or illegal. 2. To agree, to concur to one end. 3. To try to make things go a certain way. The Hutaree were indicted by a federal grand jury (ordinary folks like you & me). That means that there is enough reasonable suspicion and/or probable cause that a crime has been committed. | ||
| Sifo |
The hearing for indictment doesn't require evidence to be produced, and nothing is subject to cross examination. Basically it's the Feds say so. Now that real court hearings are starting up, the judge is saying the evidence provided doesn't seem to show conspiracy. This is from the judge, not the defense attorney. | ||
| Nukeblue |
but it was cops right? not the government of the united states | ||
| Buellkowski |
Basically it's the Feds say so. No, it's the grand jury's say so. The prosecution convinced them to hand down the indictments. Do you really think they could do that without showing at least some evidence? | ||
| Sifo |
Supposedly they were planning on killing cops. The Feds had an agent in the group (coincidentally the "explosives expert" of the group), and the Feds made the arrests. Everything seems to revolve around the explosives expert to pull off this "conspiracy". That's part of what made it sound very odd in the first place. | ||
| Sifo |
No, it's the grand jury's say so. The prosecution convinced them to hand down the indictments. Do you really think they could do that without showing at least some evidence? Yes, that's why they always say you can indict a ham sandwich. All you need is to say you have the evidence. There is no cross examination of anything at that stage of the game. | ||
| Ourdee |
Who posseses bomb making materials?I would make a guess that almost every american household does or could after an innocent enough trip to the grocery store. My Grandma, rest her soul, had plenty of bomb making materials. I don't think the Weslian Methodist Minister's little wife was a terrorist. I remember blowing the back window out of her kitchen mixing some of her materials up in her kitchen sink. I lost my hair and eyebrows more than once at her house. I have a muscle hernia where I nearly lost my arm. I wasn't 10 yet when I learned that when you see the fireball coming past you, you need to blow all your air out. By 11 I could make steel cased rocket motors powerful enough to penetrate house walls. I'm not a terrorist. I was just a curious kid that asked what must have seamed like innocent questions of the pharmacist in a small town. How innocent do we all claim to be? Do you own a rubber, got some draino, have access to a car? TERRORIST! Got iodine, amonia, chlorine for your pool, sugar, charcoal, some welding equipment, Lawn sprinkler equipment from Raintree, etc. The list goes on. TERRORIST! I just thought I'd touch on what seams hardest to reason out the possession of. Now riddle me this, If the FBI plants or infiltrates a person into the cell and the mole is an explosives expert, what would you reasonably expect to find during a search of said cell's club house? I am not responding to stir this up or incite a response. I'm just throwing some food for thought into the trough. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
http://www.foxnews.com/us/2010/03/28/arrests-alleg ed-militia-activity-midwest/ There ya go Sifo. Or is that too librul for you? I'm sure ya'll would be more than happy to let the Al-Queada Subway attack planners like Zarein Ahmedzay roam free, am I right? These are goddam terrorist who wanted to murder police and civilians. Are ya'll high? | ||
| Rainman |
I have no problem with their arrests. Sifo is right, however. To get a grand jury to indict is easy. That's why the prosecution prefers to go that route rather than through the preliminary hearing. They can also keep the defense attorneys in the dark as no defense is allowed. | ||
| Blake |
>>> There ya go Sifo. Or is that too librul for you? It's an AP story, not a Fox News report. | ||
| Aesquire |
Maybe Hutaree and Bill Ayers can get the weather underground started again. Common ground allies. I think you have that right. Apparently the real militia's turned them in. I will repeat an earlier observation I have. It is not "normal" for "right wing" nuts to target police, usually the target is a leftist authority figure, such as a Judge or a Legislator. Police are a left wing nut common target. The tactic claimed to be the "plot" is typical lefty/terrorist, with some use by the IRA. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Lefties tend not be be militant, apocalyptic Christians. | ||
| Sifo |
There ya go Sifo. Or is that too librul for you? From your source... Authorities seized guns in the raids but would not say whether they found explosives. Guns are protected under the 2nd amendment thingy. So far I'm unaware of any actual explosives being found. Sounds like you are in that same category. I have no doubt that they found some small quantities of what Ourdee alludes to though. Got any matches in your house? I hear they make very effective pipe bombs!  Of course that by itself doesn't make you a terrorist now does it. You need to have that "conspiracy" thing. One could look at the thread about "Where would you go when the lights go out" and you will find our fellow BadWebbers planing things that would be considered against the law. Everything from killing people to acquiring weapons and vehicle to help with the plan. Clearly terrorists right among our own! I bet they all have matches in their houses too! According to what has just come out about the tapes of the "planning", people are laughing and talking over each other. Sounds like a group joking around not a serious planning session of a terrorist act. It sounds like the judge isn't buying it either. The judge is basically saying to the prosecutor "You are asking me to hold these people with out bail. I would be willing to do so if you would only provide some evidence that they did something wrong." So far, it would seem that the prosecution hasn't come forward with any evidence. They have however done a great job of creating the "Right Wing Christian Terrorist Group Arrested", while the acquittal will go by with barely any notice, except for the trail of lives that have been shredded in the process. | ||
| Thumper74 |
I'm all for protecting our police officers when necessary. Anything can be twisted to make it look like something it was never intended to be Imagine this in your head... In my detached garage, gun powder, primers, .30 cal. and .50 cal. ball projectiles. I also have some cast iron pipes and caps. Some bleach, Simple Green, starter fluid, PB blaster, brake cleaner, maybe 30 gallons of used motor oil, rags, oil liquor bottles, some gas cans, spark plugs, a welder, heavy leather gloves, a ski mask, propane tank/s, matches, etc. They also find a couple of survival manuals, a copy of '1984', 'Catcher in the Rye', etc. Now imagine that I'm raided by the FBI with the help of my local Sheriff and this list is released to the media and I'm being charged with conspiracy to commit 'fill in the blank'. What do you think someone in rural America thinks? East coast Amerika? England? Based on that list and a potential FBI/ATF/Sheriff raid and conspiracy charges, what do you think I'm up to? (Message edited by Thumper74 on April 29, 2010) | ||
| Fast1075 |
Well put Ourdee...as a young fellow, I too was "chemical curious" and enjoyed blowing up fire ant mounds....and yes....EVERYBODY has "terrorist bomb making materials" in their homes... | ||
| Aesquire |
Buellkowski, I'd agree on the Christian part, but it's not unheard of...... "liberation theology" preachers are more & more common. Apocalyptic, though, that's fairly common. Usually some dire threat to Gaia the Earth Mother, or the spectre of Imperialist War, etc. But, fight the evil end times stuff, not unheard of. Militant is just the modifier on the nutball label. We could argue all day if "righties" or "lefties" tend more militant.... but why bother, it's bipartisan. I'm not even saying that the accused are leftist, it's the tactic that puzzles me. As I stated, Police are not the typical target.....It's odd. We don't have all the story here. |
