| Author | Message | ||
     Crackhead |
The PG police are known for their beetings. The issue with the riots at UMD are particaly caused because of the administation at UMD forcing the partys off campus. There is no place to have big gatherings within walking distance of UMD so everybody gathers around the bars and eventualy there are to many people and you are forced onto the street bythe normal cops. Then the cops in riot gear push you off the street into the normal cops. I have watched what happens at UMD and PG police cause the situation rather then prevent or reduce the riots. MM128 I agree with you, and I am a leo in the Coast Guard. But all MD police departments are suffering with some big issues right now. I think a lot of it comes from loosing the good-old-boy system and managment not developing a culture to replacement. | ||
| Mm128 |
Crackhead, From looking online at MD police agencies I would HAVE to agree... It seems that they have had SEVERAL issues of use of force. In my OPINION... this is a SEVERE leadership issue as well as a individual officer issue. In some of these cases termination instead of departmental punishments seems to be needed. Matt. | ||
| B00stzx3 |
edit (Message edited by b00stzx3 on April 15, 2010) | ||
| Oddball |
Following quoted from the rider on 1000rr.net. The original string appears to be blocked from non member now due to all the net traffic I guess. Got this quote from a string in the video area of the site. Yes, I was speeding. Yes, I use my side view mirrors ALL THE TIME. Yes, I saw the Impala behind me while I was on the exit. That is why I turned around and looked. Yes, there's no audio in the long video because I was listening to music and signing along... super gay. I know. The officers did NOT use their sirens or lights at any time. The Impala was at the very beginning of the film in the left lane. The uniformed trooper was sitting in the median, I passed him around 75mph. The off duty or UCO (not sure) did not have radar and does not know how fast I went. The off duty or UCO wrote me a ticket for 80+ in a 65mph zone. The uniformed trooper did not radar me either. I hope this clears some stuff up for you people. Don't assume so much. P.S. I at no point saw the uniformed trooper until after I got off my bike. (except when he was parked in the median.) I have to wonder why neither activated lights and or siren. As well as what justification the officer is claiming for the display of his weapon. Normally they can accomplish the same intimidation with merely resting a hand on it holstered. Drawing would imply a more immediate deadly threat possible from the rider. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I emailed this video to my lawyer last night. This morning I spoke to him on the phone while driving in to work. This traffic stop was 100% illegal. The "cop" in plain clothes should be placed on unpaid leave pending investigation. The uniform cop should be suspended for not calling off the plain clothed individual from effecting the stop. The ticket should be thrown out, and the department should be looking to settle out of court. The entire department should look forward to being retrained on their rules of engagement because of this one officer's actions. LEO's are supposed to be setting an example. This "cop" acted like a punk ass kid who found his daddy's gun and wants to act tough. Cops should be prosecuted to the fullest extent of the law when they break it. I am sick to death of this kind of crap. | ||
| Crackhead |
anyone else notice the illegal tint on the Impala, this is assuming it is a private car. Legal limit is 35% in MD. | ||
| Buell2001b |
I agree that the cop should have behaved better but the way this ••••••• is riding wrecklessly and weebing around traffic. good thing i am not a cop, I would have beaten his ass up until he learns to respect the road and the other peopel on the road. ONLY Left lane is for passing •••••••. | ||
| Crackhead |
not in MD we can pass on the right and 75 mph is slow on I-95. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Really... what video were you watching? Passing trucks on the right is ill-advised, but it's far from illegal. He was speeding, that's it. I really don't see where he endangered anyone besides himself. It's true that any small accident can cause a chain reaction, so yes he did put others at risk... But an Officer of the law getting out of his car in the middle of the road and pulling out his gun while driving a civilian vehicle and not in uniform when the patrol car could have pulled the bike over the RIGHT way is completely outside the lines. good thing i am not a cop, I would have beaten his ass up until he learns to respect the road Yes, it's a very good thing you're not a cop. It's clear you would have acted even more inappropriately than the guy in the video with the gun. Let's try and remember this was a TRAFFIC stop. This rider was not a wanted criminal and did not flee the authorities. | ||
| Buell2001b |
the non written law is pass on the left this is why europe has better riders and drivers. they follow the system | ||
| Buell2001b |
its endagerment, becuase i have seen how old people react when they have a guy in some gixxer going around them and before they look in the rear mirror the biker is already passing and the old dude hits the break in hte highway becuase he does not know where the biker is and does not wnat to hit him. you have to remember older people have slower reflects. have you seen a HD rider and a Buell rider. | ||
| Buell2001b |
all I am saying is if he would not have been riding like a dumb ass, the cop never would have pulled him over!! | ||
| Pwnzor |
all I am saying is if he would not have been riding like a dumb ass, the cop never would have pulled him over!! He wasn't pulled over by a cop. He was pulled over by an armed highwayman. If the citizenry of this country were properly armed, that "cop" would have been rightly gunned down by citizens concerned for the safety of their fellow man. If old people can't keep proper situational awareness when driving, then guess what? THEY SHOULDN'T BE DRIVING. UNWRITTEN LAWS ARE NOT LAWS. If you think Europe is so much better, then by all means, have a safe trip and don't let the door hit you in the ass on your way out. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Let me just add this: I've been a truck driver for a long time. I don't like when anybody passes on the right. But I know what the laws are, and I watch for people who always pass on that side. I take responsibility for my own safety and that of the people around me any time I'm rolling down the highway at the wheel of an 80,000 pound combination vehicle that takes 1/4 mile to stop. | ||
| Buell2001b |
dude this is not the old west or east LA. if he has a badge, wrong or right you pull over. after that you can get your lawyer and file alawsuit or what ever. I did not say europe was better just that there are less rednecks then we have in America. this is what happends when no child left behind or you allow some relious group to continu their inbreeding in the midwest | ||
| Pwnzor |
Why limit your hatred and bigotry to two message threads? Why not branch out, spread it everywhere! You said europe has better drivers and riders, they follow the system. Really? Did you meet everybody in Europe? Have you ridden with all of them? I didn't see where you mentioned rednecks at all... The "cop" never showed his badge, at least not in the video. Cops don't get the benefit of the doubt any more than you or I do. Your racism and anger are getting the better of you, step back and take a deep breath. | ||
| Froggy |
Where was his badge? I sure as hell didn't see it. | ||
| Mm128 |
Ok... Its all kind of a no win arguement... I know there have been times that I have bailed from a completely UNMARKED car... plain clothes...and had to draw down on a individual. They knew what we were chasing for... and seeing a badge was the least of their concerns... This video.... while it shows alot... MAY NOT show everything... You also have to know that once the police give chase.... the adrenaline dumps... brains start to process things MUCH faster... and noticing someone backing up with a vehicle COULD constitute a threatening action... In the end... its still a vehicle... it does not matter if its 400 lbs or 4,000... IF he was a unknown WANTED person and attempted to flee the bike COULD still do some harm. The officer also NEVER pointed the gun at the person...is it still a use of force issue... ? MAYBE YES... MAYBE NO.... our state agency policy is that just simply pulling your weapon is NOT a use of force issue. There is NO state law or mandate that tells and officer when or when not to draw their guns. That is soley left up to the officer. This situation warranted the ticket for either SPEEDING (if a radar/laser or VASCAR was used to obtain the speed) or RECKLESS DRIVING... due to the speed, lane changes and wheelie... Personally.. I have seen some buddies do wheelies while on patrol... I just turn my head..... and PRAY they dont get into a wreck...  I think many officers get caught up in the moment... and sometimes they just quit thinking all together... The warrant for the arrest of filming the officer.... well... I kinda think that was a tad much... Matt (LEO SOUTH GA.) | ||
| Malott442 |
Buell2001b there is so much wrong with your posts..... I'm going to try to break it down for you. I agree that the cop should have behaved better but the way this ••••••• is riding wrecklessly and weebing around traffic. good thing i am not a cop, I would have beaten his ass up until he learns to respect the road and the other peopel on the road. ONLY Left lane is for passing •••••••. I don't know what weebing is, but I'm sure its an illiterate version of weaving. An attitude of yours would be screened out of the PD hiring process, people of your disposition are usually never allowed into law enforcement due to the inevitable termination due to behavior. its endagerment, becuase i have seen how old people react when they have a guy in some gixxer going around them and before they look in the rear mirror the biker is already passing and the old dude hits the break in hte highway becuase he does not know where the biker is and does not wnat to hit him. you have to remember older people have slower reflects. have you seen a HD rider and a Buell rider. Categorizing old people like that is insulting and false. Timid and incompetent drivers exist amongst all ages, go check out the statistics. By gixxer, I'm assuming you mean sportbike right? Even then, that's quite biased and false. Squids choose their machines, not the other way around. Reflects meaning reflexes, right? I have found that when I pass someone that is failing to yield, they are 95% of the time DISTRACTED. Not old.....An HD rider and a Buell rider are different in how? Explain this to me..... the non written law is pass on the left this is why europe has better riders and drivers. they follow the system The written law is slower traffic keep right unless otherwise noted or lane changes are forbidden. The fact that your "law" is unwritten, makes your label in fact instantly false. Passing on the left is a general rule of thumb for a perfect world. Passing on the right is not only perfectly legal, it is perfectly appropriate at times. The rules in Europe are drastically different due to the variations in street structure and congestion, not to mention the fact that public transport, pedestrians, and motorcyclists represent a significantly higher percentage of the traffic on their roads. Maybe you should start thinking about what you write before you start typing. And also, when the red dotted lines appear under your words, check them to make sure they aren't erroneous, a spelling error, or idiotic in nature. Thanks  (Message edited by malott442 on April 15, 2010) | ||
| Pwnzor |
Well stated, Matt. My point is that the clearly marked patrol car should have made the stop. Then there would have been ZERO confusion. If it had been me in that situation, I guarantee you there would be a lot more high speed video. As soon as the door on that car opened, I would have been gone. If he got in my way, I'd have run him down. Damn right. If a uniform pulls his gun out, I do what I'm supposed to. I get face down and spread eagle. If Joe Schmoe pulls a gun on me, he gets whatever I can throw at him. Fists, vehicle, bricks, screw it. All bets are off when I see the gun with no badge. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
You also have to know that once the police give chase.... the adrenaline dumps... brains start to process things MUCH faster... and noticing someone backing up with a vehicle COULD constitute a threatening action Typical COP logic, a guy backing up is a threatening action, I think you guys are a bunch of pussies that got your ass beat a lot growing up and needed that badge to help you keep from getting it beat the rest of your miserable lives. The officer also NEVER pointed the gun at the person...is it still a use of force issue... ? MAYBE YES... MAYBE NO.... our state agency policy is that just simply pulling your weapon is NOT a use of force issue. Again more cop logic, backing up a threat...walking up to someone with no ID or badge with a gun in hand, not a use of force....whatver. This situation warranted the ticket for either SPEEDING (if a radar/laser or VASCAR was used to obtain the speed) or RECKLESS DRIVING... due to the speed, lane changes and wheelie... Personally.. I have seen some buddies do wheelies while on patrol... I just turn my head..... and PRAY they dont get into a wreck... I think many officers get caught up in the moment... and sometimes they just quit thinking all together... The warrant for the arrest of filming the officer.... well... I kinda think that was a tad much... So this guy should get a ticket for speeding or reckless driving, but your "buddies" get a pass....hm...hypocrite. I wonder if your boss would like to know that? The idea that a supposedly "trained" officer can get "caught up in the moment" and "stop thinking altogether" re-enforces my belief that those that seek this job are not competent to wield the power we have seeded to them. I know it sounds pretty personal against YOU. Sorry it came out this way, but you did identify yourself as a cop and tried to validate what is completely inappropriate behavior by a cop. I think we as citizens should fire the entire lot of you and the politicians that wrote these laws, chastise ourselves for letting it happen and start over, but again, I am one guy with a axe to grind against cops, I won't deny it, I cannot stand the brown shirts and no I don't call them when there is a problem, I handle it myself. Pwnzor, while you have held your composure pretty well, especially in the face of the moron that cannot spell, I held off as long as I could possibly stand it. I am sure I will regret posting this later due to the flame that is about to happen, but good on you for at least recognizing cops for what they are and speaking the truth about them. Get the torches out.....oh yeah I was the one that emailed Froggy that article because I found it a few days back on another forum and it made my blood boil then. I hope this guy gets a big pile of money and the cop is UNEMPLOYED and UNEMPLOYABLE in the future in this field. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I had originally intended to stay out of this one, but after reading through it all again I just couldn't. I understand the difference between good cops and bad cops, and I feel qualified enough to say that the guy in plain clothes is a bad one. In court, a police report is as good as scripture to a devout Christian. The problem I have with that is I've personally been on the business end of a falsified arrest report. During my time in prison, I learned first hand the very distinct differences between cops who are just doing their jobs, and the ones who are abusing their positions to whatever end suits them. | ||
| Mm128 |
Liquorhere, First off... this was not personal attack on you so refrain from it with me. Here's MY responses to your statements: In reference to your 1st statement about officers being pussies.... Hopefully you never need a cop to solve a situation for you. Your attitude is ridiculous. Anytime you want to give a beating to an officer... make sure you have an army behind you thats willing to follow through on your behalf. Just a word of warning. About the use of force... pulling a weapon.. Your statements of COP LOGIC... no... its common sence... Pulling a weapon... is NOT force used.... using the weapons is force used... If an officer pulls out a gun....taser....oc spray.... it does not become FORCE until the officer pulls the trigger.... SOME agencies have polices in place that DO state that pulling a weapon IS a use of force.... If you would have read my explanation and understood it... then you would have comprehended that it depends on the agency. The issueing of the ticket to the driver. Was is warranted... YES.... does it have to be written.... NO. Hypocrite... HOW is that the case here? I have done wheelies... and been GIVEN a ticket for it in my past... I see some doing it now as a police officer and I DONT write a ticket... I fail to make your COP LOGIC connection. By the way... its called OFFICER DISCRETION. I DONT have to write a ticket if I do NOT want to. There is no state law that mandates an officer to having to issue a ticket. So.... Yes you can tell my Boss. He already knows I drive fast.... and sometimes I like to play... But... heres the kicker... I DONT WRITE TICKETS!!! and when I get pulled over... I DONT use my badge to get out of a ticket... If after the chat I get one... so be it. And... to the comment of firing us all... Go ahead...... Some areas have tried it... and as their crime increased 100 fold... they were forced to rebuild agencies... If you DONT like police... and laws... find an island... and become your own dictator. I DONT believe the masses would like a land that had NO policing agencies... and NO laws to abide by... In the end... it doesnt matter to me... I dont take any of if as a personal attack... I do this job and have done it for 8 years (3 yrs metro PD and 4.5 as a University PD) because I truely loved the job and loved helping people where other cops have not done soo well... Seems like you and others have had some bad run ins with LEO.... We ALL have... I was not always a cop and WONT always be one.... but you DONT understand what we do unless you have done it. Therefore you will NEVER understand why some respond to situations the way they do until you have been there. There are bad apples in every bunch... Police Departments are no different... but I would expect more from a BADWEATHER member then comments of burning us all... Some of us have helped bikers out... more than once... and will continue to do so no matter what others THINK of us... Matt (Yes.. I AM a cop.. In South Ga. but they also have payed for my education to include the DOCTORATE Phd program I am getting ready to finish) | ||
| Ratyson |
you have to remember older people have slower reflects I don't know about that... When my grandfather would stand in front of the mirror... he would reflect just as fast as me.. and I was pretty young at the time.} | ||
| Pwnzor |
Yes.. I AM a cop.. In South Ga I'm moving to the Suwanee area as soon as I can find work. At our first meeting, dinner and drinks are on me.  | ||
| Mm128 |
Pwnzor, With ALL that you have been through.. THEY ARE ON ME!! PM me when you get a chance and I will send you all my contact information. You will NOT be too far from me. I am in Valdosta Ga. Matt. | ||
| Crackhead |
I find it interesting how the "man" (unidentified officer) jumped the use of force to level 6 just by how he placed his car. Were the only options for the officer were to shot or be injured. but the Officer in the marked car could have kept the use of force at 2. 1 officer presence 2 verbal commands 3 open hand 4 non deadly 5 less then lethal 6 deadly force | ||
| Pwnzor |
It's going to make moving a lot easier knowing I have friends already waiting for me. Sending a pm now. | ||
| Mm128 |
Crackhead, This is where is gets difficult for some to see. Its called a USE OF FORCE CONTINUEM. But... it does NOT show the correlation of a weapon being drawn as a USE OF FORCE. It represents the USED levels of force and is ONLY a GUIDELINE. There are NO scenarios that script an officer having to follow 1-6... Recent reports from the FBI are showing that MANY agenicies are getting away from this force contenuem due to many thinking its the "law" that officers have to abide by. Example... Officers get out on a business alarm call. Both officers approach the building with their guns out and at a LOW READY position. Is that force?... or officer prepairedness? If they incounter a person inside the business that DOES NOT belong that is NOT armed.... their presence is known... and they can move along the force contenuem as they see fit in reaction to the suspect. We are to always give verbal commands... but the approach to open or hard hands...to weapons is depending on EACH situtation. Officers are JUSTIFIED in escalating their use of force a level above that of which the offender is using and are covered under law for doing so. It is also NOT uncommon for officer to be in plain clothes... Undercover NID, SRT, Training Division... CID... Could that have been a unmarked police car? It COULD have been... We use Impalas and Explorers as unmarked vehicles but they are still outfitted with lights and sirens. If the officer was OFF duty... and just had his radio with him and decided to get inot some "ACTION."... well... he has some issues... and SHOULD be delt with appropriately and quickly as to send a message to him and other officers. But... the video is just NOT that clear in stating what his function was.... Would I have approached THAT biker with a gun out.... NO! ... I may or may not have stopped him... but if i did it would have been on the premise that I dont want to see him splattered on the street by another driver.... besides... it looked like a cool bike.. Matt. | ||
| Mm128 |
I JUST saw ODDBALL's post from the rider... Officers HERE in GEORGIA are trained in whats called VASCAR. We get the training when going through Laser/Radar training... VASCAR is the ability to state the approximated speed of a vehicle WITHOUT using a radar/laser device. We are TESTED on it and have to pass the test within 2mph before being given the certification to utilize ANY speed warning devices. Its proven... and stands up in court EVERYTIME. He states that he did not hear a siren... TWO THINGS HERE: 1. If he is moving FAST enough... he WONT here it... 2. Someone MAY have not been in a actual police vehicle. NO LIGHTS.... thats definately NOT good if the officer (PLAIN CLOTHES) is moving fast through traffic without lights... He is assuming ALOT of liability IF he was and IS acting on his own.. Punishment SHOULD be harsh and without hesitation. Matt. |
