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Buell Forum » Quick Board » Archives » Archive through April 15, 2010 » Cycle World-May issue « Previous Next »

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Archive through April 11, 2010Patches30 04-11-10  08:09 am
Archive through April 09, 2010Glitch30 04-09-10  01:58 pm
Archive through April 08, 2010007blast30 04-08-10  05:07 pm
Archive through April 08, 2010Court30 04-08-10  12:05 am
Archive through April 05, 2010Wolfridgerider30 04-05-10  12:42 pm
         

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Larryjohn
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 09:20 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"build your own Buell replica personalized to your taste"

Works if that is your taste. Not mine though. Doesn't much look like a Buell to me. I am guessing it doesn't handle like one either.
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Whatever
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 10:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I quite like it... but for 19K I will buy three used bikes before I do some wacky $hit like that...
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Just_ziptab
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 10:52 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

New street Buell?
Per Erik on FB:
"We'll see what the future brings...my goal is definitely that, but it will take a while."
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Glitch
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 10:58 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

This kit and a S&S motor you could build your own Buell replica personalized to your taste.
So, you disassemble a Buell, to make a Buell replica that doesn't even look or act like a Buell?
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Guy_glover
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 12:25 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

With that belt tensioner like that i'll bet you won't be doing a lot of riding anyway.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 02:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Erik wants to race. In order to race at the top levels in the US, there must be sufficient quantities of street bikes manufactured to meet homologation rules.

Unless Erik is content with dominating second and third tier race circuits (which could be the case, but I don't believe so), street bike production is a must.
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Jaimec
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 05:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

ft_bstrd: The other alternative is MotoGP, which MUST be non-production based. Of course, Erik is going to need a LOT of DEEP pockets to finance anything like that.

I would think Moto2 would be the perfect venue for him, though. No need to worry about the engine, just engineer and build the frames and suspension parts around the "Trilogy of Tech" and slap in the spec motor and the spec tires...
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 05:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

MotoGP without street bikes to fund the effort is a loser.

Were it not, we'd be seeing lots of Motoczysz bikes on the circuit.
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Glitch
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 05:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Moto2? Interesting.
Fast? Maybe.
Affordable? Possibly.
Erik's cup o' tea? Dunno.

Erik wants to race, that's the only thing I'm sure about.
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Jaimec
Posted on Sunday, April 11, 2010 - 11:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't need street bikes, just sponsors willing to foot the bill. Ilmor is a name that means NOTHING to the motorcycling world but they mounted a MotoGP effort that failed because of lack of sponsorship.

Kenny Roberts Sr. also fronted a MotoGP team using his own chassis and first a KTM engine and then a Honda engine before he ran out of sponsor dollars. No street bike ever came out of that effort either.

Gary McCoy will soon be coming back to MotoGP on an off-brand bike. Rumor has it that it's based on the MotoGP prototype BMW built and abandoned. Don't know much more about it other than they seem to have the necessary sponsorship to make a go.

(Message edited by jaimec on April 11, 2010)
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 12:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't need street bikes, just sponsors willing to foot the bill. Ilmor is a name that means NOTHING to the motorcycling world but they mounted a MotoGP effort that failed because of lack of sponsorship.

Kenny Roberts Sr. also fronted a MotoGP team using his own chassis and first a KTM engine and then a Honda engine before he ran out of sponsor dollars. No street bike ever came out of that effort either.

Gary McCoy will soon be coming back to MotoGP on an off-brand bike. Rumor has it that it's based on the MotoGP prototype BMW built and abandoned. Don't know much more about it other than they seem to have the necessary sponsorship to make a go.


"MotoGP without street bikes to fund the effort is a loser."


I rest my case. A continued effort in MotoGP will ALWAYS run out of sponsorship dollars without a manufacturing base to generate funds to support it.

No street bike sales. No continued MotoGP effort.

Racing is a marketing expense. Period. Race on Sunday, sell on Monday. If there are no sales on Monday, the Sunday racing stops.

No one is willing to build a bridge to no where for very long.
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Glitch
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 05:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I had always thought of MotoGP as a test bed for prototypes.
You know, future features for future bikes.
Stuff like fly-by-wire, traction control, engine technology, a real torture test MotoGP is.
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Jaimec
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 09:45 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well, KR got to use what he learned from MotoGP to open his own aftermarket business. Ilmor was big in Formula 1 and wanted to showcase their engine capabilities.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 09:47 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is a difference between an "aftermarket business" and a line of motorcycles.
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Jaimec
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 10:14 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

If you look at the major sponsors in MotoGP, how many of them actually have anything to do with motorcycles??

Rizla makes rolling paper (Groovy, baby), Fiat makes automobiles, and I'm not sure WHAT Tech3 makes...
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 10:46 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

2010 line up:

Ducati Marlboro Team--Ducati
Fiat Yamaha Team--Yamaha
Interwetten Honda MotoGP--Honda
LCR Honda MotoGP--Honda
Monster Yamaha Tech 3--Yamaha
Paginas Amarillas Aspar--Ducati
Pramac Racing Team--Ducati
Repsol Honda Team--Honda
Rizla Suzuki MotoGP--Suzuki
San Carlo Honda Gresini--Honda


I don't see many generic/independent motorcycles in the line-up. Geico wasn't manufacturing the motorcycle. They were just strapping their gecko to Eslick's ride. Same for Fiat or Marlboro.

Again, there is a difference between being a "sponsor" and funding the development and building of a motorcycle.
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Davegess
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 11:41 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There have many been times in car world were F1 cars are not connected to manufacturers. Right now there are several teams running Cosworth engines with no sponsor ship from car manufacturers. The profile for F1 is so high that it is possible to get enough sponsorship from other firms.

At this time you seem to be at a disadvantage in terms of winning without an automaker behind you but often this has not been the case. I suspect that it would be tougher to get enough money from non manufacturers to pull this off in MotoGP but it is possible. The engine would be the hardest part.
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

The profile for F1 is so high

Formula 1 television viewing figures

MotoGP enjoying healthy audience figures


Compared to MotoGP, F1 is a monster.
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 12:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"They only make a few of them, so the have to charge more, simple supply and demand 101 "

um. NO. Your supply and demand curves intersect where the relative value of the product equates to the customers perceived value of your product; not at the accumaltive values of production elements, taxes, regulation, transportation, marketing, and frontage.... And remember this when the VAT hits; you cant add component pricing to a product at each level of transaction and expect the consumer to still purchase your product.

So yes the cost per unit of production, with higher runs does go down, and you will be able to make more profit per item over time (which is why you have depreciation of the initial assets of manufacturing)
So if you price the shirt at 30, but enterprising and creative people can and will make their own for 6-7... guess what?.... this is where your licensing, trademark and restricted use clauses come in (good luck with it though, the knock off designer bags are a boon to business in foreign markets)

The only things that pull out of the supply demand curve are govt intervention with subsidies/regulations/taxes; fame or notoriety, or products with a more inelastic demand (Gasoline)
At some point you price the consumer right out of the market of purchasing your product.... who among us today would purchase a 20k bone stock 2010 XL883?....exactly.
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Davegess
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 12:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"They only make a few of them, so the have to charge more, simple supply and demand 101 "

Sorta true, if you only plan on making a few the price will go up because of tooling costs and processes used. However will there be enough consumers willing to pay what you need to charge?

As the price goes up the demand goes down BUT limiting supply does not insure that the consumer will pay a higher price. That is why so many very expensive bike makers don't survive.
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Rohorn
Posted on Monday, April 12, 2010 - 01:44 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'd LOVE to see more racebikes developed as/from racebikes rather than street bikes - production racers, in other words - a return to the RW750 concept, as it were. I'm under the impression that more and more "sport bikes" are getting turned into trackday toys and club racers - and never seeing the street.

I'm also wondering if a club level production racer could be faster & cheaper to run than a converted street bike.

No, I'm not referring to converted 450 dirtbikes, either.
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Rhun
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 04:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Long after CEO KEITH WANDELL has been discovered to have been a very bad fit for HD (and the business world in general), his golden parachute will live on!
Also technically a Canadian company is an American company as is Mexico and Brazil. All reside in the America's continents. From what I see Victory's are sold in Jap bike stores who already have very good sport bikes and Polaris are sold in tractor stores. Let's see would you like a Buell with your John Deere today? : )
As they are both visionaries I'd like to see a merge between MotoCyzt (sp) guy and Eric and maybe Warren Buffet for capital!!
All in all a very insightful article into the industry.
PS I would buy a CEO KEITH WANDELL for idiot of the decade shirt.

(Message edited by rhun on April 13, 2010)
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Jaimec
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 06:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Don't forget, it was Harley's Board of Directors who CHOSE that moron to head the company!!!
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Brumbear
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 07:01 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

they would do better here if the reruns were at a deent hour I always seem to catch em at 3 am cause Sunday I am riding
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Bigblock
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 07:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Talk about self promotion! 41 billion saw F1 ? WOW!

They must be including other planets, even if they are counting people more than once!
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Tuesday, April 13, 2010 - 10:52 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

he did in under two years what it took AMF 15 years to do.


golden parachute.... how about some damn clawback. Its exactly like letting the captain of the Exxon Valdez keep his shipping license after he ran aground.
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