| Author | Message | ||
     Ft_bstrd |
The law in Tennessee, like the other 37 state's laws, is intended to provide a direct challenge to the Health Care Law by virtue of the 10th Amendment. A law passed by the state and protected by the 10th Amendment supersedes Federal Law. The abolition of slavery didn't result directly in the civil war. In fact, the Emancipation Proclamation didn't end slavery. The EP consisted of a two part Executive Order. These executive orders came in late 1862 and 1863 and were in fact Unconstitutional, but neither executive order was challenged since the Confederate States were not allowed to petition in Federal Court. It wasn't until the 13th and 14th Amendment that slavery was ended. Had the states non ratified these Amendments, slavery could have resumed after the end of the Civil War in spite of the Emancipation Proclamation. Had the South not seceded, slavery would simply have died a slow death. If the Federal Government had declared slavery illegal, the slave states could have passed a law stating that slavery was protected. In this instance, the Federal Law would be unconstitutional because it trampled the 10th Amendment. I believe this is the legal battle brewing. If the Federal Government has the power to pass ANY law and the States MUST comply regardless, then the 10th Amendment is null and void. If the 10th Amendment is null and void, then ANY Amendment can be nullified. First Amendment? Second Amendment? Third Amendment? Fourth Amendment? 37 different opportunities to plead the case before the Supreme Court with each successive case learning from the previous case. Each case providing an injunction against the implementation of the Health Care Law. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.bloomberg.com/apps/news?pid=20601087&si d=aa32kl.M09T4 The Constitutional aspects.... One of the things our founders didn't seen to have anticipated is the govt. forcing people to buy insurance. Probably because in the face of theocratic rule ( divine right of kings ) unchecked taxation ( The Stamp tax was so small.... you will be taxed more for tanning beds ) and forced slave labor to the military, having to buy into a Ponzi scheme, by law, under threat of violence, didn't seem likely. The Supreme Court finally ruled that McCain-Fiengold's first amendment restrictions were in fact unconstitutional. Yea! They were then lied about & insulted in public for that, by the Prez. at his state of my union address. Hillary is working on the second amendment, via a treaty with the tyrannies of the world, which will supersede the Bill Of Rights. Buy watertight containers. and a shovel. Nobody is taught today that they have a Bill Of Rights, and if asked will tell you it means Food, Shelter, Cable, Cash. ( presumably out of "Obama's stash" ) http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_Ojd13kZlCA http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=19v5Kjmc8FI Remember. Violence is counterproductive. Any excuse to crack down will be taken, and widely reported as just and needful. You of course, are an eeeeevil extremist. Keep your powder dry for when they come for others. Any others. Never Again. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/First_they_came... (Message edited by aesquire on March 24, 2010) | ||
| Hex |
First they came for the hippies, peaceniks, dope smokers, and unwed couples. Reminds me of another poem...divided we fall. | ||
| Indybuell |
Fat, You hit the nail on the head.  | ||
| Drkside79 |
You know I HIGHLY doubt this Health care bill will be as bad as all you chicken little fellows make it out to be. For example I am all for not allowing preexisting condition denials. Insurance companies are EVIL in case you didn't know. Oh and insurance companies not being able to drop the sick that's nice to. | ||
| Drkside79 |
I hear this alarmist crap all the time first Obama was going to take away your guns. Has that happened and i missed it. I still have mine.... Now hes wants everyone to have insurance. My GOD how evil can you get... (sarcasm intended) | ||
| B00stzx3 |
Misleading thread title. Thought this was going to be a thread about whiskey. Dang you people! | ||
| Cityxslicker |
worked for insurance companies for 15 years before coming to motorcycle sales, and going back to it now since motorcycle sales have TANKED. There is some serious dis information and hyperbole out there about insurance. 1) Disqualifications for preexisting conditions.... In Washington state it ended in 1998 with an administrative act by Debra Senn the Insurance Commissioner... 8 Companies left the state that year... meaning less selection, less competition. Of those remaining... The insurance premiums have risen 3-8 % more than the cost of inflation EVERY year since. So the current law eliminates the exclusion for preexisting conditions... it doesnt however not allow for a differentiation for cost based on your illness, and an imposed waiting period before your eligibility kicks in (usually 6 months or a year) You are a bad risk, they need to store up premiums to build up a reserve to underwrite your risk, and also if you die in the interim, then they dont have to expose themselves to the risk to begin with. But you will be paying premium because your care is only not covered for that diagnosis or treatment plan or Rx. So cheer up , the government plan starts charging you in September (projected) and you will have coverage for your preexisting condition in 2014 (projected) Yep... Uncle Slick Willy and Obama are looking out for you from those EVIL insurance companies Read the Bill, you can bet with high probability your legislator didnt. PS the fraud busters wont ferret out the 'savings' that the govt projects either, dont even get me started on the road blocks that the govt itself imposes on being able to externally independently audit private healt records. | ||
| Drkside79 |
and one of my previous jobs was doing third party billing for hospitals and forcing insurance companies to pay in accordance with their contracts. Which i might add they don't do with any regularity. The countless denial appeals i wrote on timely filing, or medical necessity, or preexisting conditions made me sick. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
Everyone wants healthcare reform, but this bill seems put together half-assed. They should have worked on it until we have 70% of people and 70% in the votes at least. And... WTF happened to working on more JOBS?!?!?!? If no one is working... or on unemployment barely making ends meet,... how can we pay for this insurance? (how much will it cost anyways??) Will I have to sacrifice my bike payment? Car payment? Cable bill? Or any other habit/hobby to pay for it?? I don't get being forced to pay. I just don't get it. | ||
| Doerman |
This reminds me of a business park project that was started in 07 not too far from where I live. They broke groud and made much bru-ha-ha about the project being good for the local economy. Ground was broken. Foundations were put in. Now it has sat idle for 24 months due to lack of funding. That's real business. Funding is required to move things forward. Not so in government business. Funding is created in two ways: - increased taxation - increased borrowing Since the National Credit card is maxed out.. look for a national VAT tax coming soon. | ||
| Aesquire |
Well, devil's advocate here... You have to be forced to buy insurance. The idea of insurance is that many hands make a light load. If most people pay in more than they take out, those who have greater needs will be covered. If everyone is going to be covered, everyone has to pay in. It's only fair. Now the people who have issues with govt. mandated insurance is that the load increases massively and it's like many people carrying a stock tank under a waterfall, the amount each has to pay goes up & up. Because your state may mandate aromatherapy, and breast augmentation ( for mental health reasons... It makes a lot of guys feel better, come to think of it.) everyone in that state has to pay higher premiums to pay for it. Also there's all those bozo's who go to the doctor for a cold and demand antibiotics, the cretins. That's why the idea of competition ( across state lines too I hope ) is vital to save money. Because of the state differences, we probably have to make a federal law that would set the minimum coverage & prices. End Devil's advocate. Mandating there be coverage without regard to pre-existing conditions, seems "fair" to me, and it will cost more money. Period. No hopeychangey worship changes the math. I can accept that, can you? Now, you could make, to me, a good argument for a tax paid health care system...since we already have several. You could tell me you want to expand Medicare to cover all people on all the govt, programs that already exist, and add all the poor people who are uninsured. You could convince me that the "money saving" purges of the mental health system have put all these near helpless bums on the street, and we have an obligation to civic hygiene, law enforcement, and common decency to fix that. I'm pretty fraking Liberal. What does this bill have to do with that? Without further argument... I have a question for everyone who's enthusiastic about this. The prime tactic to sell this was making people hate the existing system. It's certainly not without warts. I'm having issues myself with these rich a--holes. But. When, in your historical memory, has rousing the hatred for another group of people, given happy results? An appeal to loyalty, patriotism, hard work ethic to overcome hard times, that's all good intentions and has a good outcome. This issue has had many top politicians outright lie to create & enhance hatred for others. Doctors, pharma & insurance companies, and anyone who disagree's with them. http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=SG56B2et4M8 http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=q-z9jeCi3Bw http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-xYCqRhXawc | ||
| Ratyson |
You know I HIGHLY doubt this Health care bill will be as bad as all you chicken little fellows make it out to be. For example I am all for not allowing preexisting condition denials. Insurance companies are EVIL in case you didn't know. Oh and insurance companies not being able to drop the sick that's nice to. I like to eat corn, I think it tastes good. If I find a piece of corn in a turd, I am certainly not going to think that turd is good to eat. There are a few items in this bill that may be good (very few). But the overall content of the bill is bad... for everyone. The claim that this bill is already funded, and that it will reduce the deficit are based on a fairytale. The idea of forcing people to purchase something that is optional at the threat of fines is atrocious. Unconstitutional, and there is no other way to describe it. This is a matter of states rights. If a state wishes to enact this type of legislation, they have the Constitutional allowances to attempt it. (I say attempt, since most people don't want this, they may have a hard time passing it at the state level) The federal government has absolutely no Constitutional authority to be doing what they are doing. And that is where my main aversion to this bill sets. The federal government has been over-stepping it's boundaries for a long time. It is time to put a stop to this by sending a message to them through the voting booth, and the courts if necessary. Bravo Tennessee! I'll have to see if Alabama is also stepping up. } | ||
| Cityxslicker |
If you live in a border town, ie Vancouver WA/ Portland OR; Clarkston WA/Lewiston ID; Spokane WA, Cour D Alene ID..... You have been able to purchase insurance for helth care benefits across state lines since 1985. The inhibition is that most of your networks only operate in the other state/city.... But if you live in one, and work in the other, and may need access to both, there has been in place a Repricocity Article in our insurance since the 80's.... it has not affected price; in fact there is an annual surcharge to have your plan with that construction.... Next fallacy nugget you want to pull out of that turd ? Not a damn licensed agent/broker/administrator in the bunch Its the paperboy fixin your transmission. | ||
| Buellkowski |
Could insurance reciprocity/portability (the ability to receive benefits of your insurance policy in states other than your home state) be considered "interstate commerce"? If so, the Feds can regulate it. It's not likely to happen, given in-network vs. out-of-network considerations, but shouldn't there be a national interest in seeing that everyone's policy is honored in full, no matter the state a claim occurs in? If a proponent makes a case that allowing a patchwork of healthcare insurance laws hinders interstate commerce, wouldn't the Federal law be upheld? | ||
| Reindog |
People tend to vote for anyone who promises Free Pizza! Unfortunately, that person is usually picking your pockets at the same time. Huh.......isn't this happening right now??? We can't afford this monstrosity, people, no matter how you rail against the "evil" insurance companies. The Republicans attempted to reform the insurance companies but this POS will probably allow them to drive UP prices. No one knows for sure because NO ONE has been allowed to read the Bill! | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The most effective analog to socialized anything is the all you can eat food bar. If you pay in, you expect to get out what you pay for and probably feel entitled to "your fair share". You take as much as you need and probably as much as you can get. If you get it for free, you feel entitled because the benefit is being paid by "those fat cats who make all that money on the backs of the poor". You take as much as you need and probably as much as you can get. You ever see someone pay full ticket at an all you can eat food bar and just have the salad? The "greater good" comes after "I'm gettin' mine!".  | ||
| Blake |
Abuse of the commerce clause is at the root of many evils perpetrated by the fed gov against freedom loving Americans. The intent of the commerce clause was to ensure that some states didn't take obscene advantage of others in ways of commerce, think Texas oil and gas, or the sale of electrical power across state lines. | ||
| Etennuly |
The money "we" are spending to fight for and against this TURD has got to be enough for medical care for everyone in the country for at least two years. We are a bunch of crazy bstrds for being such laid back voters. | ||
| Kenm123t |
HEX the dope smoking hippies are the ones in charge! We allowed the dope smoking fools to breed and be elected | ||
| Aesquire |
Heck, let's be fair, Obama ran a better campaign, with far more money, against a guy few people liked, who wrote the law that Obama used to launder 600 million. There wasn't a good candidate run against him, that got his message out. ( and was accepted by the Rep leadership, for all you Ron Paul fans ) So the next election you have to remember to vote against the guys who are doing crap you don't like. Make a list of your local guys ( the ones you get to vote for )who torqued you off, and when the time comes vote and maybe toss any extra cash you have at an acceptable replacement. Pay attention to the jerks who want to cash in on the "pissed at the Dem's" phenomenon. ( that's what happens every time there is a swing like this ) Don't vote for them. Pick good guys, if possible. Keep interested and share your observations with others. you know, Be a Citizen. Sure this is an extra trillion out of you pockets with little good you will ever see, but it's nothing compared to the energy rip-off tax coming up soon in the agenda. That and illegal alien amnesty. But $7 a gallon premium ( if you need premium, you must be rich....and we hate the rich, don't we kiddies? We should tax it more! To make the evil rich pay! ) and home energy costs through the roof, with your "rights" to emit carbon being traded and making others rich...... to save the Polar bears from Al or something.... | ||
| Aesquire |
http://finance.yahoo.com/news/Cuban-leader-applaud s-US-apf-124808403.html?x=0&.v=1 Castro applauds Obama on his Health care takeover, BUT knocks his slowness to give amnesty to all the illegals and impose a religious dictatorship for Mother Earth. How appropriate. | ||
| Drkside79 |
We should have lifted sanctions on Cuba years ago. | ||
| Aesquire |
Right after they surrendered, absolutely, just like Iraq. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Your analagy for the health care dibocle is Education. And after pouring money down that sinkhole for decades, with poorer preforming urban schools, inefficiencies, poor teacher pay, minimal levels of education, technology... the administration is ADVOCATING charter schools, school vouchers, home schooling and business co-ops to 'fix' education..... you mean something like self determination, and business commerical strategies... funny the exact same things you are taking OUT of the Health Care deliveries. expect the same results. HealthCare will go from where it is now... to abysmal in the way that education did from the fifties til now. We may all get to see the pendulum swing back...or we could die in a waiting watching for it to happen. mmmmm pizza for lunch sounds good. | ||
| Loki |
So they force us to buy insurance. Can they force the doctor/hospital to accept it? So if they are gonna TAX you for not buying insurance. Are WE all subject to this? Or are there persons exempt from this? I mean if you are not filing a tax return, how are they gonna find you to TAX you. | ||
| Sifo |
I'm curious how "poor" you have to be to qualify for the government funded program. Is it based on gross income? Net income? Total wealth? Anybody hear any details on that part? | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
They could make it illegal for ANY physician to practice and NOT accept the government plan. they can't force someone to become a doctor. They will have a hard time forcing equal access, though. The newest thing physicians are doing is creating "clubs". They arrange the top 100 families. These families pay $200 per month to have the ability to get in the front of the line, to have house calls, to have the physician on call any time they want. The "regular" folks get whatever access the physician has left over. "Universal" isn't. You who supported this reform are rubes. Those on the bottom will clog the system while paying nothing. Those on the top will pay extra to be granted priority status. Those in the middle will receive less for more. Dopes. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
There has been a siphoning of general practitioners and family practitioners since 1998, enrollments and licensing have dropped every year. Any one want to take a wager on how far down enrollment in the leading med schools are going to be ?.... You will see a mandated service requirement for the doctors coming into practice where they will have to practice general medicine for say 5 years... why?... because guess who now controls the purse strings to getting that spiffy medical edumikationz?... yep Uncle Obama. | ||
| Garyz28 |
While we're at it why don't we make it illegal to deny a claim based on a preexisting condition for all types on insurance? That way I can just wait until I am in an accident to get car insurance. How can they deny coverage just because the damage happened before I was insured? Isn't that a preexisting condition? After they pay up I'll just cancel until the next time I need it. |
