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     M2me |
Obama and other Democrats campaigned in 2008 on a platform of health care reform. Look at Obama's speeches from the 2008 campaign. He talked about health care reform in every single speech and he gave thousands of speeches. Obama won, remember? Why do you think the majority of people voted for Obama and other Democrats? Because the majority of people wanted health care reform! We got what we voted for. That's how representative democracy works. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Again you reveal your ignorance. The above applies specifically to "group" plans not individual policies. Gotta protect the cadilac union group plans. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2me |
I am not a fan of John McCain but he must feel betrayed as he was a champion of bipartisanship in his actions in the Senate. His only reward has been getting knives repeatedly stuck in his back. Yeah, and he's been stabbed in the back mostly by far right wingers. Now McCain is moving far to the right because the Republican party has made it clear that they will not support anyone who is not so far to the right that they are off the charts. Politics is like chess. You never abandon the center. The Republicans are playing very bad chess. They are now running on a platform of Armageddon. That's too extreme. It's a narrow edge of the chess board. Most people don't buy the idea that the U.S. will cease to exist as a result of health care reform. But that's what the Republicans are selling. They have no other product to sell. It's a losing strategy. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2me |
The above applies specifically to "group" plans not individual policies. No, it does not. It applies to "group health plan or health insurance coverage in which an individual was enrolled". "health insurance coverage" is not specific to group plans. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Why do you think the majority of people voted for Obama and other Democrats? Because the majority of people wanted health care reform! We got what we voted for. Self delusion is a terrible thing. Obama won due to the economic downturn and by lying through his teeth, lie after lie after lie. He lied about transparency, and he lied about bipartisanship. The issue of health care was close to dead last among the concerns of Obama voters. Liars suck. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2me |
The issue of health care was close to dead last among the concerns of Obama voters. How dare you! I was an Obama voter. I first saw Obama at a small St. Louis Park elementary school during Klobuchar's campaign in 2006. I own Dreams from My Father and The Audacity of Hope. I was at the Xcel in June 2008 when Obama announced that he was the Democratic candidate for President. I remember vividly how loud the crowd cheered that night when Obama promised health care reform. I voted for Obama. Make no mistake, health care reform was an issue high on my list! (Message edited by m2me on March 25, 2010) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
Not all "health care reform" is the same. Voters voted for health care reform in the abstract (the promises you get during campaigns) and rejected the health care reform voted for in the specific. Keep in mind unhappy voters vote FOR abstract ideas and AGAINST actual results. Ask Carter. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Bluzm2 |
This steaming pile of shit they are calling "reform" isn't even close to reform. There is nothing in it to address the real problem. Cost. The Dems are bought and paid for by the Association of Trial Lawyers. The severe lack of tort reform is one of the major expenses for anything related to healthcare. The lefties won't even discuss the topic. There is nothing in this 2000+ page waste of trees that will reduce costs. Only penalyze those of us that work in the private sector. BTW John, virtualy everyone at the Xcel was a rabid koolaid drinker like yourself. I personally know folks that HAD (tech support staff) to be there, they all had to force themselves to stay as they could already see the BS factor for what it really was. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2me |
Where did I get this quote from? DailyKos? The American Socialist Party's web site? No, it's from David Frum! You people are spinning out of control! You need to get a grip on reality and turn off Rush Limbaugh, Glenn Beck, Sean Hannity, etc. Come back to the real world. Debate the issues facing this country honestly and drop the "hysterical accusations and pseudo-information". David Frum Waterloo Post | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Newsweek Poll conducted by Princeton Survey Research Associates International. Sept. 10-11, 2008. N=1,038 registered voters nationwide. MoE ± 3.8 (for all registered voters). "Which ONE of the following ISSUES is MOST important in determining your vote for president this year? The economy and jobs. Taxes and government spending. The Iraq war. Terrorism and national security. Energy policy and gas prices. Issues like abortion, guns, and same-sex marriage. Health care." Options rotated Newsweek pre-election pole results:
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| M2me |
The severe lack of tort reform is one of the major expenses for anything related to healthcare. The lefties won't even discuss the topic. That's totally false. It's been discussed. Many states have already implemented medical tort reform and it's not going well. Caps are being ruled unconstitutional. Another factor is that medical malpractice accounts for only about 2-5 percent of health care costs. So even if we totally ban medical malpractice lawsuits (and we DO NOT want to do that) it would only lower health care costs 2-5 percent. Tort reform is easy to bring up but you've got to be very careful what you wish for. Giving up the right to sue for damages is something we must all think long and hard about. Corporations are drooling over this prospect. They want to be immune from lawsuits. Just remember, once we give up that right it will be very difficult to get it back. I'm not convinced that giving up that sacred right is worth it for a 2-5 percent reduction in my health care costs. Georgia high court overturns tort reform | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Good thing you clarified that for everyone. Sounds more like a Harry Potter convention. Did you get a chill running up your leg? Of course socialized health care is important to an emotion-driven anti-freedom Socialists like you. D'UH! (Message edited by blake on March 26, 2010) | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Another factor is that medical malpractice accounts for only about 2-5 percent of health care costs. Sounds insignificant doesn't it. To the ignorant it would. But the truth is different; 5% of 20% of our economy is around $140,000,000,000 per year. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2me |
Economy and jobs is health care! My pay goes up 3% but my health care insurance premium goes up 10%. This has been going on for decades. No matter how hard I work I can't get ahead and neither can small businesses. Health care costs are eating up more and more of our economic output. Much more than taxes. Health care costs now account for 17% of GDP in America. Most countries that we compete with economically have health care costs in the single digits of GDP. What are we doing wrong? Can we take a look at this issue and try to come up with a better way? You say, "No!" You say trying to address this issue means I hate America and love Stalin and Hitler. But I'm just saying that our health care system might not be the best, it might need some reform and adjustment. That's all I'm saying. It doesn't mean that I hate America! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
I hope the states can figure some way to make tort reform work. In Texas it's made a HUGE impact in reducing health insurance costs. I'm paying the same today for my health insurance as I was ten years ago. When the tort reform in Texas kicked in, my rate dropped 30%. You are once again ignorant of the subject matter. Tort reform, at least in Texas, does not affect material damages, only the non-economic award portion of a lawsuit. If a doctor messes you up to where you cannot work and you expected realistically to earn $40M through to retirement, you get $40M. You just don't get another huge award for pain and suffering. That portion is capped. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
So the cost of health care rises. Do you think the capability and quality of health care has remained stagnant? You want access to MRI machines and the best high tech equipment and treatments available? You expect the cost to remain stagnant? Why is our health insurance costs rising? A stifling of the free market, partly due to disconnect between patient and doctor when it comes time to pay and partly because the fed gov already controls 60% of America's health care system via veterans, medicare, medicaid, and SCHIP. They mandate prices to the point that doctors are losing money on their patients. Guess who has to make up the difference? If health care is that important then why is 17% of GDP too much? Why have dental care costs not seen the same increase? Why haven't the cosmetic surgery medical costs seen the same increase? Because they both are almost entirely ruled by the free market. You want health care for all, I MIGHT agree bit ONLY if you agree to free the market. Simply give everyone a stipend or tax deduction as applicable towards purchasing their own health insurance. Keep the tax deferred health maintenance savings accounts like I very much appreciate. That's all. That will solve the problem of inflated health care costs. The main reason other nations socialized health care is less costly is that they provide a lot less capability, less MRI machines, less high tech equipment and procedures, and longer waits for service for many procedures. One other reason for our high health care costs? American suffers more than than the average share of unhealthy slugs. You want me to subsidize their insurance? WTF? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| M2me |
Sounds insignificant doesn't it. To the ignorant it would. But the truth is different. To the ignorant, 5% of an amount gets more significant as the amount you apply it to gets bigger. It doesn't! 5% of one dollar is a nickel. 5% of a million dollars is $50,000. But the 5% DID NOT get any more significant. It's still 5% of the amount. That's the truth! Wow, you guys are ••••••• retards! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Oh, and if you cannot afford your own health insurance, then I, in the form of the fed gov's agency for health & optimum living (AHOL), get to come into your home and force you to live healthy, no tobacco products, no drinking in excess, no sugary or fatty foods, exercise every day, no riding a motorcycle, no sky-diving... Me? I prefer freedom and personal responsibility. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Jetbuilder |
You idiots on the left forget that we on the right have all the guns and most of the training on how to effect change if needed. You on the left would be what was commonly known as "Torries" (British loyalists) if you were transported in time to 1776 our founders would have killed you all. Remember the Quote "Join us or Die". Ben Franklin the right wing nut job himself came up with that one. "The Tree of Liberty Must be watered with the blood of Tyrants" that radical concept was the Infamous Thomas Jefferson. When it all goes to shit and china no longer services the Debt of this country ( with the 2.6 trillion new debt from health care) then its all going to go to hell in a hand basket. We will be waiting. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
To the ignorant, 5% of an amount gets more significant as the amount you apply it to gets bigger. It doesn't! 5% of one dollar is a nickel. 5% of a million dollars is $50,000. But the 5% DID NOT get any more significant. It's still 5% of the amount. That's the truth! Wow, you guys are ••••••• retards! Are you really contending that $140,000,000,000 per year is insignificant? Credibility gone. Not that you ever had any with me. So long John. Take a hike. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Ft_bstrd |
What's hilarious is that 5% of the cost of healthcare is more than the total profit of ALL the healthcare companies (2-3%). The attorneys, who bring NOTHING to the table and don't care for a single patient, make MORE than the "evil, greedy" insurance companies. Yep. Makes sense to me. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Nothing to see here, move on...  | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Why American health care costs more than health care in other nations (what price life?)...      Could it be that we have the largest percentage of unhealthy people coupled with the world's best health care? Yes. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
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| Nevrenuf |
The attorneys, who bring NOTHING to the table and don't care for a single patient, make MORE than the "evil, greedy" insurance companies. my buddy is in a medical malpractice lawsuit involving his late wife at this time and it's been going on for like 5 years and still isn't settled and from what he told me last night, sounds like the lawyer is robbing him blind and is threatening to call it quits if he doesn't pay him some money that one dr settled out of court for. no reason why this should have dragged out as long as it did and right now he doesn't know which way to turn. lawyers like politicians need to be shot. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Aesquire |
Oh, come on, without lawyers, who would sharks make jokes about? | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
Lawyers and politicians are like any other profession, some good, some not so much. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Sifo |
I hate these discussions with M2me. He knows just barely enough to sound like he might make some sense. As for malpractice accounting for only 2% of health care costs, this is not even close to the truth. http://pajamasmedia.com/blog/tort-reform-aids-heal th-lowers-cost-why-isnt-it-in-obamacare/
This problem is getting worse too. It is not linear as M2me has suggested.  Then from his own link trying to support how tort reform can't help control costs... http://www.ajc.com/news/georgia-politics-elections /state-high-court-overturns-392119.html
Sounds to me like tort reform was working in GA to bring down costs. It's a shame that the GA Supreme court found it to not be constitutional. This would be the GA constitution though. This doesn't mean it wouldn't pass in Federal legislation however. It's funny how all of this gets used to support a Federal take over of health care that doesn't have any provisions to control costs, and will most certainly cause costs to go up dramatically. Then somehow M2me manages to complain about the rising cost of his own health care. Weak sauce! | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Blake |
It's inevitable. The Socialist parrots who know nothing but their partisan talking points always end up looking incredibly foolish. America became great because of the unprecedented freedoms it provided to people to earn a living. The Socialists cannot stand that; they worship at the altar of bringing everyone down to the same base level and controlling humanity since they know best what is good for all of us. It truly is evil. For some, even many, the fools and partisan parrots, National Socialism may be well-intentioned, but it is truly evil, oppressive, dictatorial, invasive. Once it takes hold it is like a metastasizing cancer, virtually impossible to eradicate. The Progressives know this. They know that if they can manage to impose this national cancer upon all of us, it will take hold and be there to stay, and all the better for the rest of their National Socialism one world agenda. | ||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||||
| Aesquire |
Some good points there Blake. http://article.nationalreview.com/429378/chicago-d oes-socialism/victor-davis-hanson http://article.nationalreview.com/429317/the-defin ition-of-freakout/jonah-goldberg Lots of liberals opposed the Patriot Act on slippery-slope grounds, but it’s worth noting that very few conservatives said the Patriot Act was just a “first step” or a “down payment” toward an even more aggressive police state, while many hoped it would be a temporary measure. Lots of liberals insist health-care reform merely begins the process of pushing for full governmentalization of health care. I don't remember any one not obviously demented loving the Patriot act for the new abilities it gave us to crush dissent. Or spy on granny. On the other hand. http://www.laprogressive.com/political-issues/heal thcare-issues/a-simple-first-step-towards-universa l-health-care/ If you Google the above "quotes" in Goldberg' article there's some interesting stuff. |
