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P47b
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 08:02 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I found that we did have a job creation. But not for our country.

http://www.investors.com/NewsAndAnalysis/Article.a spx?id=520923
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Tom_b
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 09:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is there even a us manufacturer that builds wind turbines? If so on a large enough scale to provide that many turbines?
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Spiderman
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 09:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is a manufacturer in Wisconsin that makes wind turbines and does a dang good job of it!

The only current issue with setting up wind turbines is infrastructure.

Where the turbines need to be placed, there is no current connection out there. So the cost to run wires out there isn't attractive to power companies to do it.
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P47b
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 09:42 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is one in OKC and I think Dallas. I know they both make the blades.
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Kim_g
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 09:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When you are dealing with Government contracts it usually comes down to lowest price, technically acceptable. In addition there is no restriction on ARRA funds being used to fund contracts awarded to foreign firms.
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 09:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Restricting non DOD spending to only US companies may violate trade agreements. It amounts to government subsidies. We could face trade sanctions that are more harmful than buying foreign made products vs. domestic. This is why the "buy american" clauses get stripped out of the legislation before it passes.
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Buellhusker
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 10:06 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is a manufacturer of the wind towers here in Columbus, Nebraska that is owned by a Japaneese company KATANA. They employ many of our local citizens but are managed by staff from the country of the RISING SUN. This is a sad state of affairs.
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P47b
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm looking for the article today that several representatives will have a knee jerk reaction and pull us out if the NAFTA contract.
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Court
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 10:19 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We are working on a project that may (depending on the 350MW or 700MW decision) be the largest in the USA.

I am aware of no USA manufacturers and none responded to our RFP.

Here's the project I'm working on.

Here's some current info in the USA.

A good deal of wind technology was developed in Europe. We're learning fast.
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Spiderman
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 10:26 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

A good deal of wind technology was developed in Europe. We're learning fast.

For quite a while

JK ; )
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 11:18 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

How difficult would it have been for the idiots in Washington to include one simple sentence in the legislation, "All products must consist of no less than 90% made-in-America content."

Idiots.

GE owns NBC/MSNBC, the "Obama is our savior" networks. GE sells wind turbines and are likely to benefit hugely from the admin's green energy policies. Not sure where GE's wind turbines are made.
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Drkside79
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 11:27 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Nothing is made in America. Even stuff that says it is is from overseas.
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Ohio_xb12
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 11:49 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

http://images.zatz.com/websites/palmpowerenterpris e/issues/issue200105/caterpillar-a.gif

The engine is manufactured by Caterpillar
in Lafayette, Indiana and is then shipped to Caterpillar's Decatur, Illinois assembly plant.

The tires are manufactured by Michelin North America at the US7 Earthmover Manufacturing plant in Lexington, South Carolina and are shipped to the customer site.

The driver's cab is manufactured by Bergstrom Climate Control Systems' Contract Assembly division in Joliet, Illinois. Each cab is assembled by one person and requires forty hours to complete. The cab is shipped to the customer site.

The dump body is composed of five components: the floor, the two sides, the front wall and the canopy. The dump body is shipped in component form to the customer site where it is assembled and welded into a monolithic structure before being joined to the frame during final assembly.

The frame is created from nine individual metal castings manufactured by Amite Foundry and Machine Inc. in Amite City, Louisiana. The smallest casting weighs 500 lb (230 kg) and the largest casting weighs 12,000 lb (5,400 kg). The rough castings are shipped to the Caterpillar Decatur, Illinois assembly plant.
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Drkside79
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 12:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Where did the rubber and steel come from? Here not a chance. By the way my old Mitsubishi was made in Illinois. Hows that for American?
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 12:11 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Mining minerals and drilling for oil to make synthetic rubber are evil and harm Mother Earth. We'll let the Chinese do that, thank you very much.

In the mean time, ramp up the emission requirements and labor laws. Make sure no American company can compete on the world stage without importing materials and outsourcing labor. That'll show 'em.

20 years later, we can all whine about the US not making anything anymore and blame it on greedy CEOs.
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Ohio_xb12
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 12:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I sold them the steel. Which I bought from a US owned and produced integrated steel mill. Steel imports have greatly declined as prices have stabilized with shipping into the United States bringing foreign steel equal to prices of domestically produced products. Add to this customers increasingly requesting domestic only produced steel as imported steel often seems to have certifications that say one thing and tests that indicate a completely different chemistry. I could give you lists of hundreds of large scale manufacturing companies still in the United States. Not a personal attack against you just a strike against the wide spread misconception that nothing is made here anymore.
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Drkside79
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 12:32 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

No offense taken. Also none was intended on my part.
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Ohio_xb12
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 12:35 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

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Indybuell
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 12:42 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Atleast he created a job for Scott Brown!
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Tom_b
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:02 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I'm glad to hear that there are still companies in the US that can produce quality steel as well as companies that can produce wind turbines. i feel the same way Blake does. If we have the facilites, why didn't the jerkoffs who came up with this plan make a percentage of matreials american supplied? don't tell me cost, after the BILLIONS that they are spending on other dipshit stimulus plans
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:10 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Andy (Drkside79),

Are you really so ignorant and willing to say whatever happens to spill forth from your undisciplined mind, or are you just prone to ridiculous exaggeration?

"Nothing is made in America."

Complete and utter nonsense.

Even stuff that says it is (made in America) is from overseas."

Again, not reality, just nonsense.

"Where did the rubber and steel come from?"

Rubber comes from latex harvested from rubber trees. They are topical and won't grow in America.

America produces about 200,000,000,000 (that's 200 BILLION) lbs of steel every year.

Some interesting reality for your consideration...

German Auto Workers Protest losing jobs to America


quote:

America's weaker dollar has begun hollowing out Germany's manufacturing industry.

German-made machine tools, jet parts, steel, and even autos are no longer cost competitive vs. American manufacturing these days. ...

...the next generation of the (Daimler's C-Class model series will no longer be produced in Sindelfingen, ... assembly of the C-Class is being shifted to the company's US plant in Tuscaloosa, Alabama.




Employment by Sector: USA vs. China



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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:22 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Interesting thing about rubber. It won't grow here. Ford tried. They bought land, imported trees, couldn't make it work.

The Japanese expansion prior to WWII was done in part to capture rubber manufacturing capabilities. The US imported ALL its rubber, as did Europe.

The US chemical industry went into overdrive and successfully synthesized rubber from oil. In fact, the synthetic stuff made much better tires than did natural rubber. We still use synthetic rubber in tires.

I find it ironic that that the action of trying to seize the world market of rubber resulted in greatly diminished demand for it by virtue of a superior replacement.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is anyone bemoaning the loss of agricultural jobs in America where massive scale automation has displaced tens of millions of agricultural jobs?

They probably did at the time.

What do "services" include, besides the oft stated restaurant and hotel jobs I mean?

Answer:

Transportation including shipping transport.

Education (we have lots of universities and colleges)

Communication (this is HUGE)

Health (HUGE)

Professional & Business Services (high tech included)

and more...

Service Sector Is Job-Growth Engine
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Ohio_xb12
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:48 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake, excellent point about the value of the service sector. The angle that most people are trying represent when they condemn the shift to a service based economy is the lack of a tangible asset, and this vulnerability cannot be ignored. It is already too late when you find yourself unable to produce necessary amounts of a product (oil for example) and because of international politics or your choice of allies in international conflicts no one is interested in producing it and selling it to you. You can only have as many people to ship or teach how to make a product as there is product to ship or a place to make it.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:50 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

As for rubber, most of what we produce and use here in America, most of it here in Texas , is synthetic rubber.

America produces a LOT of synthetic rubber, on the order of 2BILLION pounds of it per year.
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 01:59 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

"You can only have as many people to ship or teach how to make a product as there is product to ship or a place to make it."

True.

I'd add that you can only pay people as much to manufacture a product as the market will bear, else said product's price will be uncompetitive.

Therein lies the argument.

When labor unions demand lavish benefits and excessive pay, they drive the jobs away and bankrupt the corporation. See GM for a perfect example.

That said, the unscrupulously deflated labor rates in places like China only make the issue worse. Lord help us if N. Korea ever opens to the international labor pool.
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Hootowl
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 02:05 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

N. Korea opening up might be a good thing. Maybe they'll stop counterfeiting our currency. It's their #1 export.
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Ohio_xb12
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 02:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

When labor unions demand lavish benefits and excessive pay, they drive the jobs away and bankrupt the corporation. See GM for a perfect example.

Steel industry is a another example. We were the only ones making steel to serve the US market. The only ones we were competing against were other domestic producers. The USW wanted another dollar an hour and COLA just give it to them and raise prices to the customer. Then "GASP" steel from Japan and the likes became affordable because of our costs to make. We took our lumps, shed the weak companies, consolidated and now US steel production is one of our strongest industries.

The auto industry is in the process of undergoing the same thing but the market is continually tampered with by Government forcing it to take longer and spread the pain out over a longer period of time. The new home of United States auto manufacturing is the South where it's non union REALISTICALLY SUSTAINABLE prevailing wage makes good jobs there sustainable. I am not a union basher across the board. However I personally did landscaping work at a guys hose who was in the UAW and rotated work weeks with the machine operator next to him. It made the work fast paced but they were able to run each others machine at the same time as their own and work rotating weeks while clocking each other in and out. There is no place for that in an industry which is attempting to be globally competitive.

In both instances new competition was introduced into the market and the time and effort required to make your product actually competitive with the alternatives can be a brutal process. These messes were caused both by over reaching workers and by arrogant short sighted leadership who know they probably wouldn't be around when the hammer fell so why put forth the effort to change things.
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Drkside79
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 02:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Blake (Blake)

Actually on this one i was joking. I work as a purchasing agent for a living and know where a great many things come from and can be bought.

As for my undisciplined mind %$#&@%@&*. J/K

On a serious note I'm rubber you're glue ....

or

I'm Texas synthetic rubber you're glue now both of us can be American products.

(Message edited by drkside79 on March 05, 2010)
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Blake
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 04:00 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

LOL. Then I am rightly made of dead animals. Tasty dead animals.
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Sifo
Posted on Friday, March 05, 2010 - 07:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

My brother works for a company that makes gear reduction units for wind turbines for an overseas manufacturer. It's nice to see something get outsourced to and American manufacturer. They do make extremely high quality double enveloping gear reductions that nobody in the world can touch though.
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 02:57 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

we have a wind farm out in Vantage, I will take a pic for y'all, its been there for over a decade, I have seen no discernable drop in my electrical prices at all ; )
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Court
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 05:21 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>As for rubber, most of what we produce and use here in America, most of it here in Texas

Used to be, when I was growing up, that the largest tire plant was the Goodyear plant in my hometown of Topeka, KS.

That's where Goodyear made the giant earthmover tires.

Dad's boyhood pal, Tom Barrett, was the youngest Chairman in Goodyear's history. I used to tease him that you knew you were important when you had your own jet . . you knew you were REAL important when they had another private jet just to fly your mail and paperwork to you every day. Goodyear did some amazing things during his tenure.

The unions later took them down and the plant is a shadow of what it was.
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Tom_b
Posted on Saturday, March 06, 2010 - 12:26 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Court,in the above post regarding the wind turbine project your working on. You said no US company even bothered to respond to the RFP. Is it because no can produce the volume or size needed for your project? I'm not sure in this economy why a company wouldn't respond to make money or give people work. Maybe they couldn't compete cost wise?. What's your take?
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