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Liquorwhere
Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 09:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Seems asking for proof here or directly by mail is akin to wrestling a greased boar.

Did I ask for sarcasm? No. Am I genuinely interested in more power for my 1125? Yes. Do I believe everything I'm told without question? No. Do I see a lot of confusion surrounding the power claims of an 1190? Yes. More surprisingly, it seems the confusion is coming from within EBR and from people like you and Court who'd have us believe that to be a real fan should be enough for us to swallow what we are told. How do you know EBR has two dynos Blake? Seems anonymous answered as if they have one only which runs a Dynojet comparison. Were you lying Blake? Who's being a flaming jackass?

Further I want to be clear about something, I am not trying to haze on anonymous posters, I know that inside information from those posters is one of the things that makes this board unique. I appreciate it when there is corroboration for one story or another or clarification of something that is falsely claimed, but why the personal attacks when asking for a simple bit of proof as to the numbers claimed.

Even HD posts dyno charts, in there parts book they have charts for the kits they sell so buyers can choose what kit they would like to buy. What I find interesting is the defensive way this anonymous poster seems to like to identify my name incorrectly yet will not identify theirs....makes me think that anyone getting that personal over a question hasn't got the proof to back it up. Either way it doesn't really matter, the chart will never be posted with the days, the numbers, the temp all the stuff the other posters on the 1125 board have on their charts, like the one I will have on my chart as my Power Commander V came in today so it will be going on my 1125R Friday.

Blake, since when is a few questions imply being a flaming jackass? If that is the case then all those question you ask other people would make you that same thing. I have no beef with you, but why the personal attack? Why so defensive of a simple question.

Here is a simple end to this question...two ways, either ignore the request, which is probably going to be the case, or post some legitimate sheets that have all the info that would remove all doubt. That easy no?

Either way I do like that body work on that bike, has sort of a Drysdale look to it, and I loved those old Aussie V8's. Hopefully there will be a street version of that fairing system, looks very good.

Cheers.


(Message edited by liquorwhere on February 27, 2010)
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Davegess
Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 11:20 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dude, what is absolute proof? You are calling the poster of the dyno chart a liar and that is uncalled for.

That dyno chart is every bit as believable as the Ducati one. In both cases we only have the word of the poster that a engine is what the chart says it is.

You need to give it a rest dude.
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Court
Posted on Saturday, February 27, 2010 - 11:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Let me get this right ..... You believe the Screamin' Eagle dyno charts, you believe Ducati dyno charts and you think the EBR are bogus.

I think you'd be smart to buy a Harley or Ducati.

Amazing ...... Absolutely amazing
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Ezblast
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 02:36 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Totally tool time! - lol
EZ
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Littlebuggles
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 05:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Sounds like Dale believes the chart is not legitimate, or uncorroborated because all the data (temp, humidity, elevation...) is not included:

"the days, the numbers, the temp all the stuff the other posters on the 1125 board have on their charts"

The chart above shows power on the vertical line and engine speed on the horizontal. Nothing else. Perhaps it is a function of the software to include the other data? Is that what you are looking for Dale? I ask for clarification because your question sounds like an accusation.
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Liquorwhere
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 07:55 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

That is correct buggles, that is what I am looking for. Dave I did not call anyone a liar, I asked for a better chart and then was personally attacked. Whatever, and court I didn't say I believed one chart over the other, I simply pointed out that those charts are posted with the info of the bike on the chart. Just like the charts on the 1125 board where you and blake called justa4banger a liar because the results didn't match what you wanted to see.
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Elvis
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 08:43 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

We all understand that when motorcycle manufacturers report horsepower values they report values under ideal conditions.

Those numbers are typically crank numbers which give great deniability since the rear-wheel numbers are always lower and no moto publications ever test crank numbers. And if a manufacturer runs 100 crank tests that range from 170 to 180 depending on the equipment, test conditions etc. we would expect them to report the highest numbers on their marketing data.

Our expectation is, and should be, that a manufacturer will claim something like 180 HP but, when the chart shows up in Cycle World, we'll see the actual chart shows something like 135 HP. That's not big deal because we all understand how the system works.

So we have a rare situation here in which we have actual charts that confirm very impressive claims about actual rear-wheel numbers. We also have EXTENSIVE information regarding the specific equipment fuel etc. that was used for the test.

That's more than any rational person could ever expect. But if a person has irrational goals . . . such as trying to cover themselves after data shows that things that person has said in the past look pretty foolish now . . . there are always holes that can be punched in any data.

If there was detailed test information stamped directly on the chart, one could counter: "How do we know the system doesn't prevent the operator from hand-fudging results?"

If we know that the system is locked so that false data can't be entered, one could counter: "How do we know the system wasn't malfunctioning that day?"


Etc. etc. etc. etc.


Questions can always be raised, but the information that already has been presented is very detailed and should satisfy any rational person who has honest curiosity . . .

. . . as opposed to someone who has an irrational agenda to try to push.

I don't mind the typical internet BS that we see all the time. I can ignore that. What concerns me is that nobody at EBR owes us anything and they can very easily say "screw those assholes at Badweb" and not share information with us in the future.

Personally, I'm a geek and I love seeing the geeky details, so I hope the people at EBR will continue to share information with us in the future. I hope they won't allow the idea that "no good deed goes unpunished" dissuade them.



(Message edited by elvis on February 28, 2010)
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Woody1911a1
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 09:05 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

well said Elvis
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Elvis
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 09:37 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cory West and Taylor Knapp hopping on barely developed 1125RR's at NJMP and being on the heals of the top factory riders is also pretty unbelievable . . .

. . . but we saw that happen.
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:11 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

same shit, different day. same assholes
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Trackdad
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:12 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

sometimes different assholes!!
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Court
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:31 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>>where you and blake called justa4banger a liar because the results didn't match what you wanted to see.

Show me where I called him a liar. I think you are making up facts.

Here's what Dris from Twin Motorcycles said about my posts:


quote:



Easyrider

Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 01:50 pm: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
Justa4banger, Court want to be sure we compare appels with appels, PM him in private your VIN, He only wants to help you do it, it's for your own need, not for his...




Here's what Reducati said:


quote:



Reducati

Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 05:17 pm: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
"Court its my bikes a 08.
the vin.. sorry i'll keep that to myself as i can't see any reason for you to have it.."

wow....haveing been on this board since 2004, and 4 buells later, i have seen Court help numerous people out with no benefit for himself, just plain good will toward other motorcyclist...and...im just speachless. But thanks Court for extending a hand, although someone attempted to bite it...




Here's what Court REALLY said . .


quote:



Court

Posted on Saturday, February 13, 2010 - 06:01 am: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Moheve Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
What mods are you running from stock?

Can you provide the part numbers?

* ECM part number?
* K&N Air Cleaner Part number?
* Exhaust Part Number?




Another from Court . . .


quote:



Court

Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 09:20 pm: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
>>>BLAKE the more i read your silly comment on the other thread the more it pisses me off.

It really shouldn't. I never let comments on the internet . . .the place where midgets claim to be NBA stars . . upset me. Life's too short. Blake's comments, PRECISELY like yours . . . we no more than opinion. Rise above the urge to argue and support what you are saying with empirical facts.

Here . . with all due respect . . are a few of my questions and I'm going to say right up front that I DO NOT KNOW IF YOUR RESULTS ARE ACCURATE AND I AM NOT QUESTIONING THEM.




Another from Court . ..


quote:

Again . . . . the above are just my thoughts. No intention whatsoever to call you or your work into question. I am aware of a number (it's about 15) of folks who have used the same combination you have and have reported different results.




Another by Court . . .


quote:



Court

Posted on Thursday, February 11, 2010 - 10:57 pm: Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)
>>>>and he is criticized?

I am DYING to know . . . . having read all the posts. . . .


* WHO criticized him?
* WHO cast aspersions?
* WHO made a misleading statement?



Please . . . where are you reading this?

I know exactly how all this works . . .trust me . . the last time someone took my statements about a Buell to task . . and you can call me kinda a "out up or shut up" kinda guy . . . I took my Buell, took the challenge and circled the entire damn country.

I suspect J4B can do very well standing up for himself. So fare I have seen nothing to cast any doubt on what he has done. He is ONE data point of a couple hundred ECM's out there . . . being the ONLY ONE to have the results he has reported naturally creates some questions.




See . . here's the deal . . . you're saying that I called him a liar pretty much shot the crap out of your credibility. I said nothing but that it was tough, based on the information provided, to make sense of the results. I offered, as did the folks at Buell who were on the phone with him constantly, to help and was told to go pound salt.

I went and pounded salt.

I'm not sure where you got the "Court called him a liar" but if you can find it . . post it up and see if you can back your words up.

You're not looking so good at this point.
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A_s_r
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 10:48 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

Even HD posts dyno charts




You mean these ones?





I don't see much in the way of days, numbers, temps, etc.


quote:

Ducati are confident to post on their website 200hp crank for their WSB 1198.


http://www.ducati.com/racing/09/sbk/bike/index.jht ml;jsessionid=DPVZGFPMC53PGCRNCB3CFFIKFUIHSIV1?famil y=sbkteam




I didn't find any charts there, only this:





So much for "proof"
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Rubber_ball
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 02:08 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't see much in the way of days, numbers, temps, etc.

You don't need to. There are laws in place which those published figures need adhere to so the merchandise shown for sale meet legal requirements.

The exact same is true for EBR. You cannot lie about a product's performance in order to sell it. Doing so will land you in prison and render you subject to some hefty fines and civil court damages. It's called "fraud"; it's illegal in America too, idiot.


I didn't find any charts there, only this:

No chart necessary. Ducati are not claiming anything off the Richter scale! 200 crank hp seems quite conservative of them really. I don't think anyone with half a brain would dispute such a number for a Ducati WSBK race bike. What idiot would need to see that chart as proof?

Look again and take note that the 200 HP is "with Air restrictor 50mm". But as usual, don't let facts interfere with your dishonest, indignant campaign to troll BadWeB and smear the good reputation of Erik Buell. You are one miserable flaming jackass.

The 1190 on the other hand. Fledgling company. Unknown engine. Unknown technicians. Unknown development. Unproven in racing terms. Shrouded in secrets and mystery. I think Ducati are fairly safe with a 200 crank claim.

Unknown to you for a good reason. Not to those of us who aren't malicious flaming jackasses out to further a miserable personal smear campaign against Erik Buell and his efforts. Go away. Stay away. Get some self-respect and dignity and for once in your life honor your word and act like a responsible adult.

Blake


(Message edited by blake on March 01, 2010)
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Woody1911a1
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 02:30 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

hey rocket ..... ooops i mean rubber ball
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Ft_bstrd
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

It was a predictable and expected argument track.

"The bike doesn't exist because it wasn't posted on the website by 1/10."

"The bike exists (because they sold two), but there is no way possible for it to be able to produce 185RWHP. There's no dyno charts to corroborate the performance."

"Yeah, we see charts, but the information is bogus."


You see the exact same behavior from 9/11 "truthers". There is simply no way to convince them that the WTC buildings weren't brought down by the government or that WTC7 wasn't an "inside job".

Kinda sad actually.
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 03:27 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't deny anyone the right to question anything. However, unless you're planning on purchasing one of these bikes, I believe your motive for the questions is to do nothing more than be a prick. Are you trying to protect future customers? I doubt it. Are you starting a race team and looking for a bike? Hell no.
I will, however, believe Erik Buell until proven otherwise. I certainly think he's more credible than the asshats here.
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Liquorwhere
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 04:12 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I don't deny anyone the right to question anything. However, unless you're planning on purchasing one of these bikes, I believe your motive for the questions is to do nothing more than be a prick. Are you trying to protect future customers? I doubt it. Are you starting a race team and looking for a bike? Hell no.
I will, however, believe Erik Buell until proven otherwise. I certainly think he's more credible than the asshats here.


Rocketsprink,
I have an 1125R, my original request on another part of the site, the racing section, was to ask if there were dyno sheets with kits for the 1125R that could be seen so you could get an idea of cams, heads, displacement upgrades, and so on for upgrades on my bike. I was ignored. Sean, made a post some time back about the promise of EBR or something to that effect and I asked again then. I point it out here because someone up in the thread posted the HD sheets showing exactly what I was asking for from EBR that HD did. Exactly. In the dyno charts section I believe Dave McGrath posted as anonymous with the chart above, I questioned the method, what dyno used, and so forth as there was no info on the chart as it was posted and it is still not showing any more info than two runs, no info on the bikes, no info of the date, time elevation, temp, humidity, things that are on other sheets, like Justa4banger's. I question it and people turn hostile, whatever, I was out riding all morning, I posted up to answer Buggles from my blackberry because he had seen what my question was and I wanted to make sure he was answered as he seemed to get it, I then got on my 450 and hit the trails at Croom. After the superbike race I will get on my 1125R and go ride until I am tired and then come home and have some beer and steaks.

Court I do have a Harley, I had a Ducati, 748 to be exact, nice bike but the maintenance was a bit much and it had to go, lost too much money in the sale actually. I still have my three HD's, and my two Buells still. I would like to go through and find where you inferred he (justa4banger) was not being honest, but I don't really have the time, and I don't have the cool mod search thing you have. As far as credibility goes, I could care less about my credibility with YOU. Really. My credibility with people I actually know is quite good and that is all that really matters, you are some distant name dropping entity in new york that claims to have done more than he has lived years, you must be like what 150 or more to have gotten all that in? Whatever again on that one. I have spoken to a few people that actually know you, as I don't,and they claim you really love motorcycles. So you might not be all that bad I would guess, anyone that loves the two wheelers is usually ok in my book, but again who cares? You did hit the nail on the head about that whole internet thing, I am just a guy in Florida that loves his motorcycles very much and at times can be a bit too aggressive in asking a question of those that are a bit sensitive.

I will point out that my real name is on my profile, my real city is in my profile, I need to post my number in the BRAN in case anyone needs it while traveling down here as I have a lift and tools and some manuals in my garage that might be helpful, I am not hiding who I am,I am not Prince Eddie disguising who I am to joust or Steve McQueen having to be Harvey Mushman to enter a motorcycle race, PM me I will give anyone my number, call me if you like, talk to me directly and you might just find I am not as much of an as you might think from only seeing a few typed words.

Again it is completely perception, my words seem to accusatory for some, some think I called someone a liar, I did not, if at any point a full sheet is posted with those numbers and all the other data, date, time elevation, temp and so forth I will applaud it, of course who really cares if I applaud it right? I am just a guy that has purchased four Buells since 2004, quite a few parts, upgrades and so forth for my bikes, I am nothing more special that anyone of you, hell Nevrenuf (Neil) must have six or more Buells in his garage, but this subject probably doesn't mean anything to him as it is beginning to mean nothing to me, I have all the mods I can prove work at this time HMF Pipe, Powercommander V, K&N Filter, until I see someone post up some reliable mods that increase the numbers on sheets posted so far I think I will keep my money in my bank account. So there ya go, the race ended in a photo finish, hopefully race two is just as good, the sun is shining, the temp is great and I have another hour of racing to watch before I go for another ride so I gotta run, but hey feel free to keep pounding away on this one, call me names if you like, flame away, the beauty of it all is unless I come back and look I won't even know it. ; )


Cheers all.


(Message edited by liquorwhere on February 28, 2010)
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Ridenusa4l
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 04:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

so if the 1190 had 1198cc's like the ducati, then the 185rwhp would be believable...

hmmm...i'm sorry if im missing something but why is it that the 1190s' (which was designed by Buell to compete in WSBK) horsepower numbers not believable and the WSBK Ducati 1198's numbers believable???

Jake
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Liquorwhere
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 04:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

so if the 1190 had 1198cc's like the ducati, then the 185rwhp would be believable...

hmmm...i'm sorry if im missing something but why is it that the 1190s' (which was designed by Buell to compete in WSBK) horsepower numbers not believable and the WSBK Ducati 1198's numbers believable??


Maybe I should clear, I didn't say the bike couldn't do it, I don't see why not, I personally saw an 1198 with a pipe system and a tune put 178 at the rear wheel, I think it should be able to do that considering it is built for racing, I just don't think that sheet on this thread proves it.

Cheers.
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Boltrider
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 05:45 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

I personally saw an 1198 with a pipe system and a tune put 178 at the rear wheel




Are we talking the Bayliss bike? It has 12.8:1 CR and rev limit of 9750. The 1190RR Buell has 14.25:1 CR and 11,500 rev limit. Even the CR of the $72K Desmo isn't that high at 13.5:1.

If Ducati took that same 1198 and increased compression and rev limit, do you think they could get 7 more ponies at the wheel?
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Boltrider
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 05:49 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)


quote:

20 years or so development to get it where it is now. EBR got there in months with a tiny fraction of Ducati's budget?




Yeah the truth sucks sometimes, doesn't it?
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Court
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 06:51 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

>>>>I would like to go through and find where you inferred he (justa4banger) was not being honest, but I don't really have the time, and I don't have the cool mod search thing you have.

Please feel free to do so . . . you'll be very disappointed.

I was never anything but kind to the guy. You'll know that too when you find some facts.

I am not, nor have I been in 10 year, a moderator and have no "cool search thing". It's simply that what I am saying exists, and what you are claiming does not.
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Rocketsprink
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 06:57 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

what the hell makes you think this motor hasn't in development for years?
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Lemonchili_x1
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 07:03 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Back to the bike itself... Anyone know if the bikes being delivered to Pegasusraceteam have the bodywork shown on the red 1190RR on the EBR website?
Itching to see more pics : D
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Gregtonn
Posted on Sunday, February 28, 2010 - 09:37 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Dale,
Why do you have such a hard time believing a race bike from a tiny company could put out 185 rear wheel HP?

I personally have worked on a 392 cubic inch engine that was putting out in excess of 3,500 hp.
I don't have a dyno chart just MPH and ET numbers for the quarter mile.

Yes. I know. Those can be faked.
And the owner of a tiny Iowa machine shop, racing part-time, couldn't possibly set a national record.
But he did.
And I was driving the crew van when he did it.

G
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