| Author | Message | ||
     Hex |
http://abcnews.go.com/Politics/patriot-movement-ca lling-joe-stack-hero/story?id=9889443 Joe Stack Hailed as Hero in American 'Patriot' Resurgence Expert: Online Cheers for Joe Stack Reflect Growing Anti-Government Movement By LEE FERRAN Feb. 19, 2010 — Most were shocked by the charred scene of Joe Stack's kamikaze attack on a Texas IRS office, but for an alarmingly growing number of Americans Stack is a hero. The Web was studded with praise for Stack almost immediately after his plane slammed into the Austin office complex Thursday morning. The admiring salutes appearing on sites ranging from Facebook to the pages of extremist groups reflect what experts say is an "explosive growth" in the anti-government patriot movement. "Extremist groups are already aligning behind [Joe Stack], beginning to talk about him as a hero," said Mark Potok, director of the Southern Poverty Law Center which studies American militia and hate groups. "The growth of those groups has been astounding." Stack's suicide note, an angry rant against the IRS and the government which was posted online the morning of his death, got around 20 million hits before it was taken down at the request of the FBI, according to Alex Melen, president and founder of T35, the network service provider for the Web site where the note was posted. Melen, 25, said within minutes of taking the note down, the company was "bombarded" with around 3,000 e-mails demanding Stack's words be reposted. Some of the e-mails contained personal threats against Melen. "What's funny is most people were pretty much praising him," Melen told ABC News. Bob Schulz, founder of the anti-government We the People Foundation, said that while he only advocates non-violent means of protest, he can understand Stack's motives and said it is a reflection of a movement unlike any he's ever seen. "There's a huge patriot movement," Schulz said. "I've been doing this kind of work for 30 years. Never have I seen the likes of what's going on now. It's delightful." The anti-government movement gathered strength during the early 1990s, resulting in several high profile stand-offs with the FBI. Anti-government militias trained in the woods and prepared for a confrontation with the U.S. The militia movement peaked in 1995 when Timothy McVeigh and Terry Nichols bombed the Murrah Federal Building in Oklahoma City, killing 168 people. The anti-government movement became dormant until the mid-2000s. Potok said a militia and extreme anti-government movement, fueled initially by anti-immigration sentiment, is back in a big way, especially since President Obama took office. According to an April 2009 report by the Department of Homeland Security, the current anti-government climate "parallels" what federal officials saw in the 1990s. "Rightwing extremists have capitalized on the election of the first African American president, and are focusing their efforts to recruit new members, mobilize existing supporters, and broaden their scope and appeal through propoganda, but they have not yet turned to attack planning," the report said. For many, Obama's election was a near perfect storm of disappointments, Potok said. "The longer term thing goes back seven or eight years due to immigration," Potok said citing the surge of border patrol militias like the Minutemen. "But Obama's election, which is in a way related to the non-white immigration issue, was representative proof that this country is irreversibly changing demographically. Then the economy has played a role and things have gotten worse and worse." The result is what Potok referred to as a "broad-based, right-wing populist rebellion," generally short of violent extremism. Expert: Violent Acts 'Inspire' Extreme Groups While not necessarily extreme itself, many groups in the overall movement are "shot through with radical ideas, conspiracy theories and racism," Potok said. "Sometimes these attacks do serve as inspiration for other groups and individuals." One reason anti-government groups are embracing Stack, rather than distancing themselves from his extreme actions, is that he does not seem to be crazy, Potok said. It's a characteristic that troubles forensic pyschiatrist and ABC News consultant Dr. Michael Welner. "It's easy to get a sense that someone like snaps," Welner told "Good Morning America" today. "But this is the kind of crime that's planned for a long time... I don't find it to be psychotic. That's the problem here. It's rational." Schulz believes Stack was simply beaten to the point of desperation by the government. "The government is routinely allegedly violating the Constitution... Then when you call them on it, they ignore you too. That's enough to drive a lot of people together and to start, you know, some kind of movement," he said. "There are people that are out there so frustrated that say 'Hey it's time to lock and load.'" Online Posting: 'Prepare for Battle!' Schulz compared Stack's attack to McVeigh's Oklahoma City bombing, saying despite the desperation, any violent act is detrimental to the movement. "Anybody that commits a violent act against the government sets things back," Schulz said. "The government uses that as more reason to further clamp down... Timothy McVeigh set things back. Joe Stamp set things back." Online, it appears that many people disagree. "He sacrificed his life to inspire the quest for TRUTH," one Facebook poster said. "He deserves a memorial. A one man uprising... God Bless him." "This was quite heroic," said a member of Stormfront.org, a white supremacist Web site. "There is a gradual awakening underway." "This is just the beginning, prepare for battle!" another said. Copyright © 2010 ABC News Internet Ventures | ||
| Glitch |
He was no hero. Lunatic maybe, but certainly no hero. | ||
| Sifo |
And we are supposed to believe there isn't a left wing bias in the news. A leftist terrorist crashes an airplane into an IRS office and ABC is tying that to "rightwing extremists". Pretty weak sauce! | ||
| Xb12xmike |
wtf...why even post this nonsense. (I have no desire to debate any part of this post) | ||
| Hex |
No likey? No clicky. | ||
| Glitch |
Me thinks Hex enjoys trolling. | ||
| Hex |
Learned from the best here! | ||
| Xb12xmike |
I just heard certain news agencies are saying that this dude left a note similar to what the tea party types say..and so on. (all poppycock) Then I see ur post doing the same thing. lol. | ||
| Glitch |
I put him in the same category as Timothy McVeigh. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
McVeigh and bill ayers, jeff jones etc. | ||
| Swampy |
The problem with what we are debating is that we have no first hand information, and never will. Every time something like this happens there is a very circumstantial shallow investigation, and an even more shallow revalation of basic facts, then the expected wild allegations from the press casting wild caracterizations of those involved, which results in very old people saying things like "We could see the smoke from where we were camping, those were bad people, the news said they were abusing those children" | ||
| Glitch |
I came to my opinion of him being of the lunatic fringe by reading his own words. http://www.thesmokinggun.com/archive/years/2010/02 18102stack1.html | ||
| 86129squids |
Nut. Job. It's scary indeed how such extremism is fueled by our politics- in these late years, humankind is regressing to savagery. Peace, youn's- PLEASE. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Me thinks Hex enjoys trolling Doesn't everybody?  One man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter. One man's nut job is another's client. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Who are the people who write these affronts to intelligence? My friend Glen says 'They should be lined up and shot with pellets of their own excrement'. | ||
| 12x9sl |
I don't agree with or condone Stamp's actions-I do understand the frustrations though. Mr. Grumpy, you speak truth. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Grumpy speaks rubbish - Fool in a plane who tried to murder a bunch of clerks. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
While I understand Joe Stack's anger, I cannot support or condone what he did. The only people applauding this guy are extremist nuts. The people who are trying to paint all "Tea Party" types as supporting this are also extremist nuts trying to smear the movement that is getting ready to paste them in November. The thing that has set us apart from many nations (not all) is our ability to resolve our political differences with ballots and not bullets. Both sides are capable of upsetting that balance. If/When one of them does, it's going to get ugly. I hope I don't live to see that day. But if I do, you will see me fighting against whoever is trying to destroy the US Constitution. Three different times I took an oath to defend the Constitution against "all enemies, foreign and domestic". I still take that oath seriously. This is why I defend the 2nd Amendment. You can blabber on about militias and the like all you want. The reason I support the 2nd Amendment is because it places a fundamental form of power in the hands of the people, with which to overthrow a corrupt government and/or repulse an attack on the Constitution. | ||
| 12x9sl |
Dave, I don't disagree with that. I do think everyone's opinion is based on their perspective though, however skewed that may be...  (Message edited by 12x9sl on February 20, 2010) | ||
| Glitch |
This man is the epitome of a bitch. We ALL suffer from the government's stupidity. And let's be honest, He could afford a Cherokee 140, so he must not be THAT strapped. And even if he was, he could sell the plane. Rather, he bitched out and hurt 2 if not 3 people, and made his wife and kids suffer from the loss of the home he burnt down. I don't care how many boo-hoo excuses are made, he is a coward that ended his life so he didn't have to face the day-to-day bullshit all of us deal with. | ||
| Danger_dave |
Yes 12x - but he was trolling and needed discipline. The beatings will continue till morale improves. (Message edited by danger_dave on February 20, 2010) | ||
| Ustorque |
he is a coward that ended his life so he didn't have to face the day-to-day bullshit all of us deal with. Lets be honest here Glitch, I highly doubt he had to deal with and of the day to day stresses that us non-plane owning folk do!!! | ||
| 12x9sl |
 Got it!  Glitch you are right. When the rest of us have to reach down and find some more heart to stay the course even if we are discouraged; this guy took the cheap and uncaring (wife and kids) way out. | ||
| Sifo |
First any attempts to link this idiot with the Tea Party groups or any other conservative philosophy is complete bull sh!t. Read his own words. He is quoting the Karl Marx and condemning capitalism. Trying to twist this travesty of an individual into some sort of ideal supported by conservatives is a sick and desperate measure. His execution of his plan was a complete failure too. His aggression wasn't even aimed at anyone that would make any difference. He was striking out at pawns. Not a sign of an individual who is thinking rationally. It's just an ill-conceived act of terrorism that needs to be condemned by all. To even suggest that this man was some sort of freedom fighter shows a severe lack of understanding. He fought for nothing. He set his own house on fire for crying out loud. | ||
| Nik |
Lets be honest here Glitch, I highly doubt he had to deal with and of the day to day stresses that us non-plane owning folk do!!! The idea that aircraft owners are some kind of wealthy elite is a misconception. | ||
| Reindog |
Hex, This is your thread. You haven't shared your opinion. Or are you just trolling? The guy was a nutcase and no political affiliation can be inferred. Some people, both left and right, can't seem to grasp this concept. | ||
| Sifo |
The idea that aircraft owners are some kind of wealthy elite is a misconception. It pretty much weeds out the poor and lower middle class. Glitch is right in that a Cherokee 140 isn't exactly the low end of single engine aircraft. It's hard to say just how leveraged he was to own a nice house and a Cherokee 140, but it's a pretty safe bet that he was doing pretty good for himself. Even most owners of 'spam can' Cessna 150's tend to be pretty financially well off. | ||
| Sifo |
Hex, This is your thread. You haven't shared your opinion. Or are you just trolling? Could be because his link was trying to tie this guy to conservative extremist groups and patriot groups, but the guys own words demonstrate that not to be true. Hex's agenda fell flat right out of the gate. | ||
| Diablo1 |
Want proof of his politics? He was a bass guitar player....just like Mike Huckabee. | ||
| Sdecp |
I agree with Sifo. This guy only hurt a bunch of people working to make a living. And with that he only made some peoples lives worse. Sounds pretty selfish to me. |
