| Author | Message | ||
     Hex |
Rules? How about this: Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. This thread is open. | ||
| Methed |
Ponder this, if environmental beliefs are considered "protected" due to their religious nature as was recently deemed in a court of law, why then does the standard of "separation of church and state" not apply to these concepts in the public arena as other religions or belief systems? How can it be deemed unconstitutional for certain religious views to be addressed nor expressed in public schools, and "green speech" and environmental dogma is not only allowed, but heavily promoted and that by order of law in some states? Simply begging the question, don't shoot me for asking--unless we've so completely surpassed even Orwellian levels of centralized government control that it is mandated to do so, in which case fire away. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The intent of the law was one way, Government to people. The law was never intended to be applied the other direction, people to Government. The background documentation supports this position. The minute that a governmental agency prohibits the free expression of religion of people in the government's employ, the law has been erroneously applied. There is no provision in the law establishing the revocation of an individual's rights to free expression of religion as a condition of employment in government service. Additionally, the establishment of secular humanism (no religion) is a religion and therefore is prohibited under the First Amendment. | ||
| Crusty |
I think we should have a humorous religion thread. Maybe we could offend everybody! | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
What does this have to do with Buell motorcycles?  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Nothing. It's why it's in the Quickboard. Quickboard could be completely absent of any motorcycle content and still be BW approved. As long as this thread stays civil, it's good. Let's not get all crazy here folks. This could be a very interesting thread. | ||
| Metalrabbit |
Seems to me that the temp didn't keep rising like gore head said. That would make him a false prophet. We either forgive and pray for him or do'em up like they did Ezekiel,, put him in a hollow log and saw him in half. Thats perdy religious, yeah? | ||
| Teeps |
Methed Posted on Saturday, January 09, 2010\ Ponder this, if environmental beliefs are considered "protected" due to their religious nature as was recently deemed in a court of law, why then does the standard of "separation of church and state" not apply to these concepts in the public arena as other religions or belief systems? How can it be deemed unconstitutional for certain religious views to be addressed nor expressed in public schools, and "green speech" and environmental dogma is not only allowed, but heavily promoted and that by order of law in some states? Methed, that is a valid point to be sure. I posed the question of separation of church and state just recently to an article about Obama and government spending on green jobs. http://www.dailybreeze.com/ci_14148880 | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Ft, I was being sarcastic. I hear it from a number of individuals, including Hex, whenever I post something non-Buell | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Sorry. You need to add the sarcasm smilie:  | ||
| Ourdee |
Metalrabbit, Where did you get the hollow logged Ezekiel story? I cannot find it in the King James Version Bible. While it is true that false prophets were to be put to death. In the KJV, What prophecy of Ezekiel's are you referring to? | ||
| Ourdee |
Which one is the sarcasm smiley? Does he lick his face off or wear a hat like a 70s pimp? | ||
| Sifo |
Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances. OH NOOOOO! Not another thread with politics!  | ||
| Swampy |
That is a valid question, if the standard of government today is "separation of religion" in their interpretation, how can the government embrace and fund the "green religion" as the green religion is not based on observable facts but simply a blind belief system? The belief in God does not necessarily have to be observable, other than by practice, but by feelings and thoughts of the individual. Feelings and thoughts can't be measured. There is now more physical evidence to substantiate the claims of Jesus then there is for global warming. Yet even though the founding fathers made many obvious allowances for religous belief systems in government(we the people), the devolution of our government system has disavowed any knowledge of such. All things devolve in nature, it is the natural order of things, and is true in human nature, we go from a thing of beauty to chaos. Even our beloved motorcycle will go from individual pieces of beauty(on the assembly line) and begin a slow process of decay and destruction, it is only a matter of time. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
The green movement is subset of secular humanism. | ||
| Metalrabbit |
Ourdee,, to be honest, I don't know,, I was told that many years ago by a Pastor. Hebrews 11:37 in the NIV makes the "sawed in two" statement, Apparently, there were a couple methods of "sawing". From the way I see it one wouldn't have to give a false prophecy to be killed,, look at Christ himself. Much like today, all you have to say is a truthful statement to bring the buzz saw on you. (Message edited by metalrabbit on January 09, 2010) | ||
| 86129squids |
I attend the Church of the Sub-Genius. Cut me some slack, youn's... | ||
| Cityxslicker |
To be fair; the Jehovahs Witness fail to recognize the authority of any state, government, dictatorship to rule in control over those of faith. One of the reasons we never said the pledge of allegiance in school. who is the government to tell me how to live my life at all, in any aspect ? | ||
| Gregtonn |
"Congress shall make no law respecting an establishment of religion, or prohibiting the free exercise thereof; or abridging the freedom of speech, or of the press; or the right of the people peaceably to assemble, and to petition the Government for a redress of grievances." The part highlighted in red is conveniently ignored. The right to pray in public or public display of religion is protected (by the constitution) every bit as much as the right to object to it. The courts are constantly trying to promote gray areas into the constitution which are not there. The constitution was written in plain english, not legalese, for a very good reason. G | ||
| Ourdee |
Cityxslicker, And they won't knock your door if you are flying a US flag. Metalrabbit, The scripture in the NIV Hebrews 11:13 uses the word saw as in having seen. I respectfully suggest that you miss heard or misunderstood the pastor's message. In Fox's book of martyrs there may have been people sawed in half while still not denying their faith. In the bible Soloman offered to have a baby cut in two to divy it up between two women both claiming it as their own child. The bible is compared to a two edged sword that can cut asunder. But there are no sawed in half prophets in there that I have found in any version or translation. The purpose of the bible is to get us back to the relationship that Adam had with God in the garden, not to rebuild that garden here on Earth. The book of Acts is the only book without an ending as it is the history of the church and is still happening today. Most prophesy in the bible has been fulfilled, well there is that small bit about 50% of the people on Earth being killed off (a 1/3 and a 1/4), but I'm hoping not to stick around for that. | ||
| Crusty |
A friend once told me that Harley - Davidson isn't a motorcycle, it's a religion. It's funny that, as much as they try, those heathen Japs can't come up with a machine that has 1/10th it's amount of class. Kinda like a Mitsubishi Eclipse may outperform a Rolls Royce Silver Shadow, but it'll never even come close to being ion the same league. | ||
| Hex |
16 years ago, having much interest in this subject, I took a two semester course in History of the World's Religions from Huston Smith at UCBerkeley. Yes, they teach religion's studies at our public university. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Huston_Smith http://www.hustonsmith.net/ He describes all Religion as Humanities attempt to bring peace of mind to our questions about "the One, the More, and the Mystery" of existence. My grandfather was the chief engineer of the Hubble Space Telescope. I've been interested in Astronomy, and marveled at vastness of the Universe ever since I can remember, and it's images like this one below, that he helped bring us, that truly boggle my mind. If you don't already know, each one of those dots is a galaxy of stars, and we find this view in every direction that we look. All around us, day and night, in every direction we are surrounded by this vast Universe. How can we ever comprehend it, or find truth and meaning. I feel so small.  I'd like to take an opportunity to discuss with everyone the positives and negatives of knowing the "Truth". Along time ago, in an argument here on BadWeB, I remember FB suggesting that Paganism was a "man made Religion". I never responded to him then, but I'd like to now. Fatty, the way I see it, all Religions are man made. Hex | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
You are absolutely correct Hex. ORGANIZED RELIGION is man made. If God exists and man exists, is the relationship between the two "man-made"? The question is whether or not your belief system allows for the existence of a creator. I really look forward to how this thread progresses. I'm interested in your opinions and those of others. I do ask, on both "sides", for this not to become an opportunity for one to shout down the belief system of another. | ||
| Milt |
I would like meet your grandfather, Hex. I never want to know the truth for two reasons: 1) There would be nothing left to discover 2) Like everybody else who knows the indisputable truth, I'd certainly be wrong. | ||
| Eaton_corners |
Since the original post was pertaining more to the Constitution, I would like to start with some thoughts on the people who were instrumental in writing it. To some modern thinkers, this amendment was intended to keep religion out of government. But, from my studies of American history, I believe they were more interested in keeping government out of religion. To keep this as concise as possible I will try to use only the actual words of our founders and as little of mine as I can and still make my point. I think first we should look at what our forefathers thought about religion. One of my favorites is this quote from George Washington; Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. Reason and experience both forbid us to expect that a national morality can prevail in the exclusion of religious principle. If this thread can continue on the same civil ground it is now running, I look forward to discussing this as it is one of my favorite subjects. Also, I am very interested in what other people have to say on this subject. As far as the opinions about what role religion plays in the human story, I'm sure this thread will end up in deeper water than most are prepared to go. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
quote from George Washington; Let us with caution indulge the supposition that morality can be maintained without religion. You can see examples of a lack of a moral compass all around us. | ||
| Bjbauer |
What is this "Green Religion" nonsense? Environmental issues are, or are supposed to be, a matter of science. I know that some refer to it "as a religion" in order to put it into (or denigrate it to) the area of faith as in unsupported by facts or a matter of faith alone. I have my doubts about the conventional wisdom of the moment but lets keep that debate out of the arena of religion. What court decided this was of a religious nature? Sounds like b.s. to me. Religion is a deeply personal issue and "thank God" we live in a country that allows us to have our own beliefs and that the government does not have an official religion it shoves down our throats. I try to read at least an hour a day on matters of spiritual concern. I am a Christian but am currently reading "Autobiography of a Yogi" by Paramhansa Yogananda and have read widely on Zen, Buddhism, Taoism etc. In maters of religion as in everything else I find it worth while to keep my mind open, my mouth shut and despite this post my fingers off of the keyboard. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
If you had a belief system created by scholars and handed down to the masses who digest this system without the benefit of direct personal investigation and discovery, some would call that "religion". I can see the parallel drawn between "green science" and "organized religion". | ||
| Sifo |
To some modern thinkers, this amendment was intended to keep religion out of government. But, from my studies of American history, I believe they were more interested in keeping government out of religion. You are right on target. They did not want a situation such as the Church of England where the government controls the belief system. What is this "Green Religion" nonsense? Environmental issues are, or are supposed to be, a matter of science. I know that some refer to it "as a religion" in order to put it into (or denigrate it to) the area of faith as in unsupported by facts or a matter of faith alone. I have my doubts about the conventional wisdom of the moment but lets keep that debate out of the arena of religion. What court decided this was of a religious nature? Sounds like b.s. to me. I believe it was a court case in England. Not BS at all. It would be nice if the green movement was about science, but there is little evidence of that. In fact there is a plethora of evidence that promoters of AGW (including well known "scientists") have been subverting the scientific methods that science is based upon. | ||
| Brumbear |
all I know is when I hit pucker factor in anything I do all thats going through my head is please GOD get me out of this one if you see fit. Thats all I need to know |
