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Archive through January 15, 2010Nik30 01-15-10  07:01 pm
Archive through January 14, 20102008xb12scg30 01-14-10  06:42 pm
         

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Wavex
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 07:04 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

that's cheating.
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Wavex
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

LOL @ the edit...

this number had no basis in reality from the beginning...

(Message edited by wavex on January 15, 2010)
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Reepicheep
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 07:24 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Cityslicker said:


quote:

I simply dont agree with the measures.
Put em down where you find them, however you find them, when ever you find them.
By guillotine, yard arm, or firing squad.

They are after all by the worlds account Terrorist, Subversives, Sabateurs and Collusionists
Go read the Law of Land Warfare Geneva treaty accords. Yes read the original text not somebodys commentary on it. Go read all of it.

Hearts and minds of the enemy. One to the Head two to the chest.

The Russians did it right at the Bolshoi, we should follow in that example.

I am sure that the family of Nick Berg will tell you about glory and wonderment of Allah. Go ask them.




I disagree!





(I thought it was two the the chest, one to the head, not the other way around... ; ) )

(But you are the expert... if I was ever in a life threatening situation, would probably be working hard just to not pee myself ; ) )
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Nevrenuf
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 08:28 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

spent 1yr on the uss lasalle back in dec 77/dec78 city. flew into bahrain to connect with the ship and went back a few other times between going to other places. used to go over to the british courters to drink and raise hell. go to the suke to pick up gold which was pretty cheap at that time. they never liked us then, they don't like us now. that's all i know. came back home from karachi pakistan with a stop over in tehran iran.
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 08:58 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Tehran in 78-79. Cohones es grandes.

The Iran Hostage crisis is what got me interested in the region. I am sure it was like Munich for the generation before me. At that point, you just knew the shiate was gonna be different moving forward.

Damnit, Reepi is right, to keep the symmetry in construction It should be the other way around. Sorry, I will pay more attention next time.
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Aesquire
Posted on Friday, January 15, 2010 - 11:55 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I missed the Iran Hostage thing by 2 weeks. I was due to go over for BP to teach machine shop.

Wavex, the # of Muslims who are "sympathetic" to your murder are about 200-300 million. The other 700 million don't think so. ( per a poll of the islamic world) Of the ones that believe the propaganda they are fed by the Mullahs to hate the West, only a small fraction will ever actually do a violent act against innocent people. Unfortunately, the starting pool is large enough that there are plenty of wolves to eat you sheep. Lets say only a tenth of a percent of 200 million are future or current violet jihadi. So, only 2 million!
(If you have a better number from someone else's guess, feel free to use that one.)

Now of those most are potential terrorists, so call it 250,000 active jihadi. We've killed about half of that pool, but it is self replenishing until the culture rejects such an ideology as unacceptable.

That's why the societies that produce violent jihadi have to reject it from within.

To the moral dimension.

It is impossible to destroy a religion. The Soviets tried. One reason for violent Jihad is the Soviet oppression of other religions. ( Other than the "marxist/leninist" religion ) So you had these old guys in the hills with half a Koran preaching to the unemployed kids from memory, and preaching hatred for the invaders and the Western world. As usual in the real world, the Soviets left a legacy of pain & misery in their wake, and the world reaps the bitter harvest.

So if you think to nuke someone else's holy cities is anything but a suicide for civilization, I suggest you think again. Let's say, hypertheticallly, that we, or a madman from China, nuke, say, Qom. Now you've really torqued off at least a Billion people. Also, you've scared the crap out of everyone else, since if you're nuke Qom, you'd nuke Salt Lake City if the Mormons torqued you off. Or Wall Street, or Stonehenge... Think whoever nukes Qom would have any friends? Really? I'm really not able to come up with a happy ending for mass murder in the name of hate.

But I TOTALLY grok the anger over attacks on innocent people, Cityxslicker. Thanks for being a sheepdog. Have you read this one?

http://www.gleamingedge.com/mirrors/onsheepwolvesa ndsheepdogs.html

As to "Muslim = terrorist" no. Duh.
But as to islam=jihad try again. It's a minority of mullahs preaching the "radical" version of jihad, but the concept of struggle against sin is central to the faith. "moderate" Mullahs preach that one must Jihad (struggle) within to overcome your own sins and evil nature. By submission ( Islam means Submission ) to the Will of God, one finds peace. Nice, huh? However.

It's not like those pesky methodists down the road, that you can ignore their heathen ways, and practice your own faith, say, Wicca, in peace or at least avoid violence at the bake sales. It's a complete package, a theocracy, civil law and all.

As a code of behavior, it's 8th century medieval. I think I prefer not to have honor killings of teenage girls in my society, so it is an incompatible moral code for western liberal societies. You do the math.
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Wavex
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 12:38 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Well said.
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Aptbldr
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 06:04 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Is al-Qaeda winning?

What does it say about Washington's ''war on terror'' that dozen and a half people with paper cutters forced hundreds of thousands of Western troops into the battlefields of the "greater Middle East" region;

That 100,000 foreign soldiers are bogged down in occupied Afghanistan wondering how many dozens of al-Qaeda operatives have remained, if any;

That the most liberal democracy enacted new controversial illiberal laws and unpatriotic practices under its "Patriot Act";

That one shoe-bomber has forced millions of people to take off their shoes every time they take a flight;

That one underpants-bomber will expose every other traveler in most humiliating of ways;

That after US loss of deterrence and prestige as well as trillions of dollars of military and other expenditures, al-Qaeda's top leadership remains at large; its bases/cells proliferate globally; that volunteers continue to flock into its ranks and young supporters to its websites… !!! And above all that it continues to terrorize America and Americans.

So much that one gets the impression that America is fighting a world superpower despite the incredible disparities in capacity, numbers and support.

Is al-Qaeda winning? Has the United States lost?

Hitting the Jackpot

A dozen years ago, a demoralized group with nowhere to go but the hills of Afghanistan, al-Qaeda began targeting America instead of the region's authoritarian regimes hoping to destabilize the region, bloody America's nose and gain popularity.

Its strategy was simple: Draw the US into direct confrontation against and within the Muslim world. Like sheep to the slaughter house, America walked right into its trap.

Al-Qaeda was lucky. With a 'cowboy' and so-called "chicken-hawks" (militarists who ever served in the military) dominating the White House and the Pentagon… military escalation was only a question of time and intensity.
The Bush administration decided to "take the war to the enemy so as not to fight it at home". This is exactly what al-Qaeda hoped for considering it wasn't applying for Green cards for its members.

It all went as smooth as a scripted movie. After the 9/11 attacks at the pillars of its world status, the Pentagon and Wall Street, the wounded superpower went on a rampage. Like a bull in a china shop, it responded with little or no thinking of the consequences of its military actions.

Warmongers took advantage of the threat to US national security to advance their military agenda in foreign policy and the radical American Right exploited what they termed as the threat to "our way of life" to transform America's way of life towards the Right.

Washington called for a "crusade", then changed it into a "war" on terror and under its guise, went on to occupy Afghanistan and Iraq and support Israel's bloody wars in Lebanon and Palestine. It also intervened in Somalia, Yemen and Pakistan and put direct pressure on its allies to confront their Islamist movements.

In no time, the US was preoccupied by its draining occupation and costly military operations. And as expected, the terrible human cost only added petrol to the flames of hatred.

Paradoxically, anti-Americanism has been more rampant under "friendly regimes" like in Jordan, Saudi Arabia and Turkey etc. than others.

America's unfortunate and disproportionate use of military force to defeat a segmented, mobile and polycentric movement of several hundred core groups of fighters didn't make it any more secure or dissuasive.

As the Obama administration asks for $33 bn extra budget above the already approved $660 bn for 2010, I remember what Richard Meyers, the former head of the US joint chiefs of staff, told me several weeks ago how a decade later, the US still doesn’t have a strategy to deal with "the global insurgency" facing America.

Beyond military

Popular opposition and world denunciations of US military campaign has fallen on deaf ears in Washington. Instead of seriously reversing its military expansion, the Obama administration has accelerated it in the Afghan-Pakistan area and it seems adamant to repeat more of the same in Yemen.

Needless to say, no serious strategic analyst would advise abandoning military power all together. However, Washington's dependency on, even addiction to, firepower has neutralized or nullified all other efforts towards defusing support for al-Qaeda and truly winning hearts.

Good-will gestures provided by President Obama and his attempts to reconnect to the Arab and Islamic world on the basis of "mutual interest and mutual respect" can hardly be heard considering the echoes of drone fired missiles, speeding F-15 jets and rolling tanks.

The more Washington used its military force, the less it won the minds of those it needs most to defeat al-Qaeda: Americans, Arabs and Muslims.

Likewise, US military actions are harming its intelligence and law enforcement work that over the last decade have dealt the greatest blow to al-Qaeda's leadership and organisation.

Zero Sum strategy

As military adventures kill, maim and destroy lives, they create, nurture and build animosities and "alliances" among most unlikely allies, such as a young rich Nigerian that studies in London, a Jordanian doctor that studies in Turkey and an Arab-American soldier trained by the Pentagon, all whom were ready to die to hurt America.

And likewise, counter terror tactics and intelligence work has made it ever more difficult for public diplomacy to "win hearts and minds". Instead of listening to people of the region, it has been spying on them and instead of reading them their rights, it has tortured them in far-away prisons.

And instead of hearing out their concerns and fears, Washington has underlined its own above all others.

In that limited and limiting spirit, for example, mostly impoverished Yemenis that suffer from war in the north, intensive conflict in the south and three decade autocratic regime, must now worry about US fears, and cater to US interests above their own.

Which brings us back to our initial question: al- Qaeda is winning only as far as Washington is running a self-defeating war.

However, one needs to remember that in the self-defeating war on terror, winner and loser is one and the same.

As long as America puts its security preoccupations and political interests about those under its military and strategic domination, the Pentagon and al-Qaeda will feed into one another and the Americans, Arabs and Muslims will continue to be the ultimate losers.

- Marwan Bishara, January 14th, 2010.

Not an endorsement! In good-will and balance. Marwan's senior political analyst at Al Jazeera.
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Aesquire
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 07:33 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

So, the propaganda arm of the muslim world doesn't like that we freed 50 million people from tyranny? So surprised.
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Xbimmer
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 10:56 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

F Marwan Bishara. F Al Jazeera. I didn't read any solutions, just typical anti-American crap and criticism.
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Nevrenuf
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

they came close to canceling our travel orders because of the tensions that were building up at that point. when we landed in tehran, they just said that we had to stay on the plane until take off and when you looked out the windows, there was military everywhere. didn't really think much of it at the time until a year later.
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Blake
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 07:38 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Math? You want to debate math? I'm game!

100% = 1/1 = 1.00 = 1E+00

10% = 1/10 = 0.10 = 1E-01

1% = 1/100 = 0.01 = 1E-02

0.1% = 1/1000 = 0.001 = 1E-03

0.01% = 1/10,000 = 0.0001 = 1E-04

0.001% = 1/100,000 = 0.00001 = 1E-05

0.0001% = 1/1,000,000 = 0.000001 = 1E-06

One billion = 1,000,000,000 = 1E+09

0.0001% x 1E+09 = 1E-06 x 1E+09 = 1E+03 = 1,000

Reality is good.

"this number had no basis in reality from the beginning... "

Which may be the root of such a glaring inability to understand the real/actual/true issue.

Reality is that about 90% of muslims don't condone the agenda of the islamist terrorists and about 99.99% are not actively involved in promoting or employing violence to further their islamist ideology.
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 10:53 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

There is no safety for honest men except by believing all possible evil of evil men. - Edmund Burke
Good read, thanks for the link.
The reality of it is that there is also a type of wolf. If you know the characteristics of the wolf, where their pack eats, feeds, sleeps, their tracks, their smell, their habits, would you not be on the look out for the ilk of behavior? Wouldnt it be prudent to focus your efforts on their predatary nature?

Am I gonna chase down an Irish setter? not unless he threatens the flock. Its another dog, so my senses are up. A husky at distance, that I am gonna investigate. Is he a wolf? I dont know until I get there, but you can be sure he gets more scrutiny than the setter.
When you remove the political ideals from war fighting and let us do the job you tasked them with, then you have a chance. Tie our hands with political correct bs, and your results will absolutely show it.

And again, dont think we werent watching rural white guys for terrorism. Because we were. DAMHIK

Not in anymore, but if they called, I could be packed and ready to go by dinner tomorrow.

In GOD we trust, in all others we monitor.
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Milt
Posted on Saturday, January 16, 2010 - 10:56 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Exactly 82.7% of all statistics are made up.
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 11:30 am:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

PS we find you on the battle field, there are no Miranda Rights
WTF?!?!?
That beats out 'Don't Ask don't Tell' as the most inane dunderheaded pathetic thing that has ever been used in a military context.
You do not have the right to remain silent under the protection of the Constitution. It absolutely boggling that the lawyers and politicians would think that the 5th Amendment and Miranda should apply to terrorist insurgents.
Fiddle away, the palace is burning
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Pso
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 02:15 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I think anyone that is not a Roman Catholic should be burned as a heretic and all the King James blasphmy bibles should be buned along w/the owners of such herectical literature,and we must enforce the precepts of the New Baltimore Catacishm as a standard of law, and violators must be forced to confess before being burned at the stake. Of course interogations will be conducted useing the standard employed by the Spanish Inquestion to make sure the heretics rights are not violated and that we do not burn innocent people.
As was once said and makes sense "You can never win an argument with an ignorant man"
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Sunday, January 17, 2010 - 04:18 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

on par with "You cant hug a child with nuclear arms"
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Cityxslicker
Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 06:19 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Grab your "Jesus Gun" its time to prostletize


give me a break.
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Hootowl
Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 06:34 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

I wish I didn't have to live with the consequences of the decisions made by people with that kind of thought process.

Pso: you are fractally wrong.


wrong
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Aesquire
Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 07:06 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

Pretty sure Pso's joking. Or on a watch list.
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Pso
Posted on Tuesday, January 19, 2010 - 09:33 pm:   Edit Post Delete Post View Post/Check IP Print Post    Move Post (Custodian/Admin Only)

+1 Aesquire. or using satire to elucidat the absurdity of some postions.
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