| Author | Message | ||
     Sifo |
And someone explain this. If global warming is such a conspiracy, who stands to benefit? The list ranges from individuals such as Al Gore for example, to huge corporations such as GE, NBC, ABC, CBS to entire countries such as India, China, Mexico, as well as a very long list of real sh!t hole countries, then you have the United Nations positioning itself to control a world wide tax on CO2. The scientists directly benefit with grant money that flows much more freely to those who are working on "crisis" studies. I'm sorry if one of you sitting at your computer in your tin-foil hat has already answered this, but I can't stand to read seven pages of right wing regurgitation. Have you taken the time to read the science? The fraud has been known for a long time, it's just that the proof has finally been leaked. Rocketman, You've jumped the shark. Big time! | ||
| Oddsc |
So your argument is that that research scientists hold more sway than Exxon Mobile, Chevron and the like. Ohhh, OK, I'll be a little more cautious next time I see someone in a tweed jacket with elbow patches. Gettin fat on research grants... must be nice. (Message edited by oddsc on December 07, 2009) | ||
| Sifo |
Not saying that people are "getting fat" on research grants, but that is how they make their living. I've seen it documented where government funding for climate research is about 1,000 fold that of climate research funded by industry. There really is big money floating around, it's just there are a lot of fish feeding in that pond. Imaging how little they would make if there wasn't a crisis to drive the funding. | ||
| Sifo |
Leak or Hack? Evidence points to an internal leak. This is what traditionally is called a whistle blower and should be protected by the law, not prosecuted as Pelosi wants to do. http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/07/comprhensive -network-analysis-shows-climategate-likely-to-be-a -leak/ | ||
| Sifo |
Eric, one more point. It really doesn't matter who's doing the funding. What matters is the quality of the science. The quality of science from AGW supporters has been suspect (I'm being kind calling it that) for many years. This is simply proof positive that they knowingly were committing scientific fraud. | ||
| Oddsc |
Of course industry doesn't fund climate research, they favor PR campaigns over actual evidence. Seems to be working. | ||
| Sifo |
Do you really want to compare PR budgets? I forgot to add the countless organizations that do virtually nothing but environmental PR to the list of folks that will benefit from the AGW conspiracy. Thanks for the reminder! That's an industry unto itself! | ||
| Bluzm2 |
Nothing unusual about the "leak" coming from Russia. If you know anything about hackers, they use safe haven hosting sites, not their own ISP! If I wanted to make something available that was "hacked" the former eastern bloc countried would be the first place I'd host the information. Why, because they don't have to follow any rules! Almost no one can force them to divulge IP addresses, login id's etc. I did internet security and intrusion prevention for a fortune 500 company for years. It was a daily battle to keep the Russians out of our network. RIPE net was where 75% of our intrusion attempts came from. | ||
| Sifo |
Nothing unusual about the "leak" coming from Russia. Well, coming from Russia would make it a hack. If you read the link I posted at 7:55 PM it explains that a hack would have involved multiple hacks. It would have been very unlikely. Then it seems odd that a hacker would filter dumped information down to a few specific topics. I agree with everything you are saying about hackers in eastern block countries. They are a huge problem. This is where most viruses originate too. In this case the evidence points to an internal leaker though. | ||
| Rocketman |
I'm lmfao at those getting bent out of shape over those fantastic pic's I posted. What a bunch of uppity fools. You live on this planet as a human being and all you see is lies, fraud and hucksters. Go ask the photographer what he saw. The pictures he took I'd wager were not because the photographer expressed an opinion. He saw the beauty of mankind. The compassion. The love. The camaraderie of mankind. Call it art if it makes it easier for you to understand. It isn't about climate change or global warming. It's about people. Do I give a flying feck a number got fudged if that's the case, and someone's shafting my arse because of it. Let me tell you something. This world is full of arse shafters and if it isn't to be climate change I'm being shafted for, you they whoever will just shaft me a different way. And speaking of differences, this is the first arse shafting where it might, might that is, just be unsafe to gamble on for my kids and my grandkids futures on. I don't need anyone to tell me. I don't need a scientist or a government, nor a bunch of over educated clever clogs to tell me the opposite of what they're telling me to realise something is going on. Shove science. Shove data. Shove whatever you like. Open the fecking window, stick your head out and open your fecking eyes. SHIT IS HAPPENING and chances are because of the way man has changed the planet the past 150 years it's very likely possible we've done something wrong. Common sense is never wrong. Beats science hands down. So people are making money out of it. So what. What's new. Footballers are overpaid wankers. Popstars too. Film stars are offered up as ambassadors for all mankind. Because we allow. Isn't that a fraud too? Wonderful world beautiful people - Jimmy Cliff. Rocket | ||
| Sifo |
Common sense is never wrong. Beats science hands down. Common sense told us the earth was flat.  | ||
| Rocketman |
The Mail on Sunday understands that the hundreds of hacked emails were released to the world via a tiny internet server in a red brick building in a snow-clad street in Tomsk. The original internet link was quickly removed after the information spread from it like wildfire on to international websites. Tomcity – the server – and Tomline, its parent company, were unavailable for comment yesterday. The firm offers an internet security business to prevent hacking and bugs and the ‘compromising of confidential information’. Other divisions of the firm are involved in laying the cable which provides high-speed internet access to companies in the Siberian city. The server is believed to be used mainly by Tomsk State University, one of the leading academic institutions in Russia, and other scientific institutes. Computer hackers in Tomsk have been used in the past by the Russian secret service (FSB) to shut websites which promote views disliked by Moscow. Such arrangements provide the Russian government with plausible deniability while using so-called ‘hacker patriots’ to shut down websites. In 2002, Tomsk students were said to have launched a ‘denial of service’ attack at the Kavkaz-Tsentr portal, a site whose reports about Chechnya angered Russian officials. The FSB office in Tomsk put out a special Press release saying that what the students had done was a legitimate ‘expression of their position as citizens, one worthy of respect’. A Russian hacking specialist said last night: ‘There is no hard evidence that the hacking was done from Tomsk, though it might have been. 'There has been speculation the hackers were Russian. It appears to have been a sophisticated and well-run operation, that had a political motive given the timing in relation to Copenhagen.’ And gazeta.ru news website, having received information about the Tomsk server connection, said: ‘Presumably it was Russian hackers who broke into the servers of the university.’ The university said that there was strict security on its server, heightening the theory that an extremely sophisticated hacking operation was carried out to obtain it. East Anglia University has gone out of its way to promote itself to students from the former Soviet Union. Its website says that 33 Russian students currently study there. It is not known if they have fallen under suspicion as part of the police investigation. Tomsk – 2,190 miles east of Moscow – was closed to foreigners during the Soviet era. Its population of 630,000 includes the secret satellite city of Seversk, formerly known as Tomsk-7 and seven miles to the north, which houses strategic uranium and plutonium plants and remains shut to Westerners. It was built in the Fifties by 20,000 prisoners from nearby Siberian labour camps. Today, the city, and especially Seversk, remains closely monitored by the FSB, the successor security service to the Soviet-era KGB. | ||
| Sifo |
Rocketman, Is there anything in your C&P's that you think contribute to the conversation? | ||
| Rocketman |
Common sense told us the earth was flat. Only those who could not know better. Aristotle didn't believe so. The Egyptians didn't believe so. Nor the Romans or the Viking Norsemen. Nor Columbus or De Gama. Come to think of it, I'm pretty sure Jason and the Argonauts didn't believe so either. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Rocketman, Is there anything in your C&P's that you think contribute to the conversation? What conversation? Seems more like a lecture on HOW TO DENY CLIMATE CHANGE SO I CAN CONTINUE ON WITH MY OVERLY GROSS MATERIALISTIC LIFESTYLE. Rocket | ||
| Sifo |
Your list seems to be a who's who list of supporters of early science. | ||
| Sifo |
What conversation? Seems more like a lecture on HOW TO DENY CLIMATE CHANGE SO I CAN CONTINUE ON WITH MY OVERLY GROSS MATERIALISTIC LIFESTYLE. I will deny false science. Sorry if that offends. I think you know very little of my lifestyle. I've actually always lived very much below my means. I don't understand your religious conviction to AGW in the face of proven scientific fraud. This kind of acceptance and even support of corruption can not lead to anything good. | ||
| Sifo |
Just in case someone actually cares about science anymore here is a great summary of what this whole scandal is all about without getting all bogged down in too much technical detail. Very good read... http://wattsupwiththat.com/2009/12/06/american-thi nker-understanding-climategates-hidden-decline/ | ||
| Blake |
"SHIT IS HAPPENING and chances are because of the way man has changed the planet the past 150 years it's very likely possible we've done something wrong." The climate changes, just as it has ALWAYS done; yet you see it as proof that humans are responsible. LOL! "What a bunch of uppity fools. You live on this planet as a human being and all you see is lies, fraud and hucksters." Ad hominem attack? Personal insult? I live on the planet. I am a human being of some sort. I am an engineering analyst by profession. I see truth and lies, fraud and genuine honesty, hucksters and honorable folk. Among the man-made global warming fear-mongers I see lies, fraud, and hucksters. Awfully disappointing to see you become an apologist for them, let alone an attack dog. (Message edited by blake on December 07, 2009) | ||
| Rocketman |
I don't believe anyone but my own eyes on this matter. Something is going on and that concerns me enough to want to play safe rather than wait until real science tells me otherwise. That for me is what seems lacking from many here screaming lies and fraud. As for your lifestyle I apologise. I wasn't referring to you or anyone in particular. I meant all of us, including myself. We could all do with a little less excess I'm sure. Rocket | ||
| Blake |
Officials gather in Copenhagen this week for an international climate summit, but business leaders are focusing even more on Washington, where the Obama administration is expected as early as Monday to formally declare carbon dioxide a dangerous pollutant. from: http://online.wsj.com/article/SB126013960013179181 .html?mod=WSJ_hpp_LEFTTopStories | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Try turning off your computer. The modern electronic world has greatly increased energy demand. | ||
| Rocketman |
The climate changes, just as it has ALWAYS done; yet you see it as proof that humans are responsible. LOL! Exactly - but there's one major difference you seem happy like many others to overlook. The industrial revolution wasn't in the equation any other time before and there is enough evidence to support that such might have a bearing on the climatic changes the planet is experiencing. I'm not happy to risk I'm being robbed for the sake of my kids. Rocket | ||
| Sifo |
Something is going on and that concerns me enough to want to play safe rather than wait until real science tells me otherwise. And how exactly do you know something is going on? Never mind. You disregard science and facts to religiously cling to ideas that need to be supported by fraud. | ||
| Rocketman |
2.40am I need sleep. Not personal insult or attack. Just passion for life. Apologies  Rocket | ||
| Blake |
There you have it, the most ludicrous inane position ever imagined, the very compound vital to life on Earth, is now declared by government employees to be "a dangerous pollutant." The very compound that every animal on the planet exhales in every breath or pulse of gill, the very compound that is vital to all plants, the same compound that existed periodically throughout Earth's history in MUCH higher concentrations, leading to much more prolific plant life and animals of monstrous size, that simple little odorless, colorless gaseous compound known as CO2, has been deemed a dangerous pollutant. It's near time to really think about our 2nd amendment rights and their very serious purpose. | ||
| Sifo |
and there is enough evidence to support that such might have a bearing on the climatic changes the planet is experiencing. And that brings us to the fraud part... | ||
| Rocketman |
And how exactly do you know something is going on? Never mind. You disregard science and facts to religiously cling to ideas that need to be supported by fraud. No I told you. I looked out the window. Please keep up. Night all. Rocket | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
It's near time to really think about our 2nd amendment rights and their very serious purpose.  | ||
| Sifo |
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