| Author | Message | ||
     Drkside79 |
Speaking of God and whack job conservatives check this crap out http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34270487/ns/us_news-fa ith/?GT1=43001 | ||
| P_squared |
Speaking of God and whack job conservatives check this crap out Meh. If it makes them happy, who am I to complain? It's not like I'm going to rush out to get a copy of their translation of the New or Old Testaments. Charlotte, I agree with your stance on the Taliban & their brand of Islam. Unfortunately, I don't see any way around trying to recruit elements of the Taliban in A-stan if we really want to succeed. It's a soup sandwhich. Now getting back to the post that started this thread, out of curiousity, has anyone seen MM's latest film? I'm curious if there's more to it than just, "Capitalism = BAD. Government = GOOD." | ||
| Blake |
Sorry Char, the DOI doesn't say anything about "women" being created equal, so you are out of luck.  Seriously though, if you read the DOI, it is spectacular in its wording in that the framers formally recognized that "all men are created equal" despite the fact that the convention of the time did not. As to the rest, P2 covered it very well in his 1:32 pm post above. Jason, You are embarrassing yourself. Please cease the juvenile insults. If we cannot stick to discussion the issues, we should avoid the discussion. | ||
| Blake |
To summarize... Per our nation's founding and defining legal document, the Declaration of Independence, certain human rights are unalienable and are: 1. endowed to us by our creator, and 2. secured by us through our government, we the people. Yet some will continue to incessantly assert that "black" is really "white". They are the enemy of America as it was founded and as it exists today. They are my enemy. I wish they weren't. | ||
| Jasonnennig |
Sorry Char...I should have said brave men and WOMEN in my previous post, my bad...I most whole-heartly agree, that's NOT my God either. I think it may be time the Bible had a book of Holy Inspired Amendments like the Constitution, but really, I'm just a Liberal Wingnut, LOL... | ||
| Mndwgz |
...and then there is my favorite sig line: "For every good idea, there is an equal and opposite government requirement." | ||
| Jasonnennig |
Life, Liberty, and The pusuit of happiness- Strikes me as a very vague statement Blake...Thank God we have enlightened people like you to keep us all straight and in line (forget the Supreme Court). Repeating what Char. said, "That's NOT My God". I really don't know what to say to someone who sees people who don't agree with his views of history as enemies. That's a problem I personally have with a lot of right wing ideology- it seems to be all about hate... | ||
| Court |
That phrase has it's OWN interesting history. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Naturally the common people don't want war: Neither in Russia, nor in England, nor for that matter in Germany. That is understood. But, after all, IT IS THE LEADERS of the country who determine the policy and it is always a simple matter to drag the people along, whether it is a democracy, or a fascist dictatorship, or a parliament, or a communist dictatorship. Voice or no voice, the people can always be brought to the bidding of the leaders. That is easy. All you have to do is TELL THEM THEY ARE BEING ATTACKED, and denounce the peacemakers for lack of patriotism and exposing the country to danger. IT WORKS THE SAME IN ANY COUNTRY." ~Goering | ||
| Liquorwhere |
BOOM BOOM BOOM- Hey, keep trying man. What your spitting out just keeps getting more ridiculous. And yes, your rights where given to you by a piece of paper...and the brave men who put them there, with the help of those who died for our country...Not GOD- The constitution is not holy inspired text... I get where you are trying to go here Jason. I understand, I think, by reading your messages that you are trying to point out that those on the right side of things are just as culpable to the way this country has fallen as those on the left and that you don't believe that this nation is or should be a Christian nation. That is fine, I dislike all politicians almost equally, some get more ire than others, your president is one of them, GWB is the only president I really started to hate until Obama, so I think I get it. One thing though. I am an atheist. I don't believe in any of that, but I do believe this is a Christian nation. I believe one of the chief forces driving colonization and eventually rebellion for independence was religious freedom(meaning to have it or not and do it the way you want to) and the cost of paying for a monarchy that could levy taxes as it wished with no real dissenting voice for the people it controlled...and why could it do this? The divine right of Kings, it came from God to the King, to the people and if you disobeyed the King, you disobeyed God. Do some research into FreeMasonry and you will find that group was instrumental in designing, building and in fact birthing a new nation. Was it a bit diametrically opposed to have a declaration of independence and a bill of rights claiming all men are created equal written by many slave owning men? yes. Does that carry less weight in our society because of that? No because eventually we took it to heart...many 3/5 arguments later and of course Southern Democrat Jim Crow laws later...remember the Republican Party was liberal and the Democratic Party was the party of burned crosses for MANY decades. Do some historical research. Anyway...the constitution was not a holy inspired text? I find that statement beneath the intellect of an average American. God, scripture, religion in general IS the single unifying force that for a fact created all civilizations...all. In some way shape or form even an atheist knows that the pursuit of "Godliness" and to be as God commands in the scriptures is a pathway to treating people ON THE WHOLE better and being a better person. To deny the role religion and in fact Christianity on the writing of the constitution is someone in complete denial of where they were born and what this country has stood for from the minute we came here, crushed the natives under our boots, released the dogs of war on those that fed us from the beginning, claimed an imperial manifest destiny and pushed to unite a group of people, states, territories, former slaves, immigrants, natives into a country that changed forever the scale at which a people could shoot for. Go bigger, go better, innovate, RISK, and die if need be to build and protect it. Did the fore fathers of this country commit atrocity as Charlotte speaks of? YES. Can that be undone? NO. If you truly love your country, your people, your lifestyle, your liberty(no matter who you may think granted you that liberty....I look in the mirror for my grantor...but that is just the typical smug American in me  ) then truly look at all of those in power and ask....do they REALLY give a $hit about me? If you are a thinking person..you will come to realize they don't. Only you and those that TRULY love you do. Truly. Isn't that rather amazing? So many of us in the same boat....and so few that actually give a damn about the other passengers?.......anyway...Look even deeper...Christianity gave birth to Islam(find the real reason muslim's pray to Mecca), changed the Roman Empire into the Holy Roman Empire and gave birth to the American Empire. Whether you disagree or not with a Christian God, you must at least acknowledge the facts. | ||
| P_squared |
I really don't know what to say to someone who sees people who don't agree with his views of history as enemies. That's a problem I personally have with a lot of right wing ideology- it seems to be all about hate... Hate: 1 a : intense hostility and aversion usually deriving from fear, anger, or sense of injury b : extreme dislike or antipathy : LOATHING [had a great hate of hard work] 2 : an object of hatred [a generation whose finest hate had been big business — F. L. Paxson ] Enemy: 1 : one that is antagonistic to another; especially : one seeking to injure, overthrow, or confound an opponent 2 : something harmful or deadly [alcohol was his greatest enemy] 3 a : a military adversary b : a hostile unit or force Source: Merriam Webster Being an enemy does not automatically incite hatred. They are my enemy. I wish they weren't. I would offer that the wish expressed actually denotes the absence of hate. As to your view of history, it’s hard to agree with someone espousing a belief that we are granted RIGHTS by a piece of paper. If you were taught that at university as “history”, you might want to ask for your money back. I would. | ||
| Blake |
P_squared again nails the issue. I don't hate my enemy. I just want to defeat him. "Life, Liberty, and The pusuit of happiness- Strikes me as a very vague statement Blake..." Translation: I'm going to pick out a few words while ignoring all else so that I can argue semantics in support of my view that "black" is really "white" rather than admit that "black" is indeed "black". What is vauge? Life? You don't understand what it means to have a right to live? Are you confused about liberty? If you don't understand what it means to be free, then your position is more understandable. Happiness? The ability/freedom to pursue it? Being able to work towards your dreams and goals? That is vague to you? It would be funny if not so seriously dangerous and a threat to my freedom and that of all Americans. You really have to be an idiot to oppose the foundation of freedom in this country or someone who opposes freedom. Either way, you are my enemy. Not sure which is worse, an idiot enemy, or a state-ist/socialist enemy of freedom. (Message edited by blake on December 04, 2009) (Message edited by blake on December 04, 2009) | ||
| Drkside79 |
You know the black and white argument has always amused me a little in its irony. As colors or shades, in the case of black and white are completely up to the interpretation of light reflection or lack there of. As all eyes are different and all brains different as well. Therefore the interpretation of said light reflection is different in everyone. In accordance with that fact, using black and white as a reference to cut and dry is inaccurate in the sense that no two colors or shades are the same, as color in itself is an interpretation. Also if something was true black you would not be able to see it at all. i.e. black holes. | ||
| Jasonnennig |
"Blake...Thank God we have enlightened people like you to keep us all straight and in line"- WOW, that's how the cut and paste function works. It really IS easier than coming up with some original ideas. Thanx guys for all the demonstrations. You can go back to ranting right-wing bullshit now. I know I'm enjoying reading all your slanted opinions on Freedom and stuff... | ||
| Blake |
Jason, I'll state it one more time, please honor the following: If we (including you) cannot stick to discussion of the issues, we should avoid the discussion. | ||
| Blake |
"You know the black and white argument has always amused me a little in its irony. As colors or shades, in the case of black and white are completely up to the interpretation of light reflection or lack there of. As all eyes are different and all brains different as well. Therefore the interpretation of said light reflection is different in everyone. In accordance with that fact, using black and white as a reference to cut and dry is inaccurate in the sense that no two colors or shades are the same, as color in itself is an interpretation. Also if something was true black you would not be able to see it at all. i.e. black holes." Drugs are bad for you.  If my use of the terms "black" and "white" confuses you, then feel free to substitute any clearly opposite phenomenon, flat vs curved, rough vs smooth, open versus closed, wisdom versus idiocy, truth vs lies, etc. The point was not that issues are black or white. The point was that some insist on arguing as false that which is obviously, blatantly, irrefutably true, the definition of delusion. (Message edited by blake on December 04, 2009) | ||
| Drkside79 |
Blake, While i respect your position and as an American you are welcome to have it just like he is welcome to have his. I'm not sure what you expect after publicly declaring him an enemy. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Depends on the drugs.... | ||
| Jasonnennig |
Hey Blake...I'll state it one more time, please honor the following: If we (including you) cannot stick to discussion of the issues, we should avoid the discussion. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Illegitimi non Carborundum | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Blake, I don't know where you get the patience and energy to debate with these half-wits. | ||
| Jasonnennig |
Well said Drkside79...They will have to do much better than that... | ||
| P_squared |
Do better at what? Attempting to give you every reasonable opportunity available to hold a civilized discussion which you can't seem to achieve? I know it's "subtle" and likely will either be ignored or twisted, but have you actually offered anything to the discussion other than name calling Jason? There are a host of questions that have been posed, some repeatedly, which you have either ignored or apparently waited for someone else to attempt to answer by proxy. If your singular contribution to the thread is "You're all dummies & I'm right, nyah, nyah, nyah" I question what value you bring to the discussion? I’ve yet to see you make anything close to a coherent rebuttal to the points anyone here has made, which you so obviously & vehemently appear to disagree with. Why is that? You accuse others of being uneducated fear mongering religious zealots, yet offer no coherent argument as to why you’re “right” and others are “wrong.” You’ve been given multiple opportunities to respond in a thoughtful manner, yet you haven’t. Seems quite odd. Now would someone please give me a review on MM’s latest movie? Along the lines of Charlotte reading Palin’s book, I don’t want to pay for it, but I can’t check it out from the library either. | ||
| Blake |
"I'm not sure what you expect after publicly declaring him an enemy." I don't expect much. My intent is simply to communicate how deadly seriously I view the issue. My hope is that in communicating my resolve maybe some will perhaps take pause and rethink their stance on the issue. I believe that most of the people expounding the nonsense like Jason has here have ever taken the time to truly understand the ramifications of their views should said views ever become the prevalent stance of our nation. That's all. | ||
| Aesquire |
Liquor, nicely said. I'm not an "atheist". I find they come in multiple flavors, from "secular humanist" through agnostic all the way to ( the most common in my experience ) the adolescent rejector of the teachings of the elders. (then they freeze their own growth & act like spoiled children) You obviously don't fit the last category, and those are the only people I bother to argue religion with. ( I'm not Christian either...I went through agnostic, touched on a few of the oriental faiths & am now happy with Asatru. Not very devout though, I admit. ) No, America is not a Christian nation. We were founded on Christian ( and other religious ) principals, and with a PROFOUND awareness that spirituality, some form of belief in a higher power/inteligence/rationality, was required to make the grand experiment of self governance work at all. Manifest destiny, "God wills it", and the rest of the white mans burden, came from multiple sources, and has been inspiration and curse for centuries. http://www.fordham.edu/halsall/mod/Kipling.html http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_White_Man's_Burden I take the satirical view of this poem, and it as a warning of the obligation inherent in colonialism & intervention. I prefer "The Son's of Martha", for more biting commentary, and a heartfelt understanding of the difference between people as sheep, and those few people who are the sheepdogs that protect the flock. (See also story of ant & grasshopper ) http://www.mindspring.com/~blackhart/The_Sons_of_M artha.html http://www.dailyprincetonian.com/2007/05/07/18407/ So, the leftists are very unhappy with their warmonger president. Don't go on about the religious right, ( conservative interpretations & re-writing the bible? LOL! Everyone re-interprets the bible. Some do it for good, most, for ill, IMHO ) really, all you have to point out are the jerks who protest at soldiers funerals that "God hates gays". Methinks they dost protest too much. Certainly there are right wing whacko's. None, at this moment, are Speaker of the House, or the Congress guys that protected their buddies at Fannie Mae who were both ripping off the taxpayer & making large donations to said congresscritters. Feel free to point out any such in power, so we can all mock them. It is, however, the leftist loons that are in power, and the reality is that Obama has alienated a notable part of his base, and they are most strident in their rejection of common sense and social politeness. It is risky for him, though many would vote for him tomorrow anyway, out of idoological relativism. So, maybe not that risky. But that anti- attitude seems to be the source of the insanity of setting a time table for a war. It seems to them that Obama has betrayed them ( duh! he's a Chicago Pol! ) It seems to me that Obama just told the Taliban they win, but not for 20 months. This one is long, but quite germane I think. http://www.pjtv.com/video/Afterburner_with_Bill_Wh ittle/Where_Obama_Went_Right%3A_Afghanistan_Decisi on_Outrages_MSNBC_%26_Moore/2784/ | ||
| Liquorwhere |
So, the leftists are very unhappy with their warmonger president. Aesquire, You had so many quoteables, but I figured we'd keep it short as to not pull away from the discussion here.....I think you are correct, I have observed many unhappy faces on the news lately, including a rather tense press conference over "who was the belle of the ball" and if the first lady felt over shadowed by an underling....lol....and then what happened, the press secretary wanted to talk about the war....I think he will alienate most of his flip flop supporters, those that crossed party lines to vote for him, if he hasn't already, but the base will vote party line...just like the Nobel Prize he won for not being GW..lol...and stick with him...all the way down to the gutter. As far as the rest of your post, send me a PM and we can go all out over Rudyard Kipling and Erich Von Daniken ( I am a big fan of Chariot of the Gods).... Ok back to the mudwrestling...here's Sheila with the weather.... | ||
| Whatever |
As far as Micheal Moore's Movie "Capitalism: A Love Story" It is not as original as his previous films, tackles complex issues with more generalisations than usual and is only slightly funny at different times, such as him backing up an Armored Car to get the money back from AIG... There, that was on topic... Now for the off topic... "Well maybe I'm the faggot America. I'm not a part of a redneck agenda. Now everybody do the propaganda. And sing along to the age of paranoia. Welcome to a new kind of tension. All across the alien nation. Where everything isn't meant to be okay. Television dreams of tomorrow. We're not the ones who're meant to follow. For that's enough to argue. Don't want to be an American idiot. One nation controlled by the media. Information age of hysteria. It's calling out to idiot America." -- Billie Joe Armstrong, Green Day (Message edited by Whatever on December 04, 2009) | ||
| Rocketsprink |
www.buellhomecoming.com Argue IN PERSON TOUGH GUYS!!!  | ||
| Whatever |
That would really spoil all the fun Rocco...  | ||
| Odie |
You know, I jump in this thread once in a while just to read the latest garbage but really, the left sucks and the right sucks. All the politicians suck in my opinion. WHAT ARE WE, THE PEOPLE, DOING ABOUT IT???? Yes, I know, we can vote. VOTE FOR WHAT???? More crooks looking out for themselves. WE, THE PEOPLE, need to take back our country from the US Government and start over. Blathering on at each other here isn't going to do squat but piss each other off. I know what I WANT to do with about 4 million other folks one Monday afternoon but that isn't going to happen anytime too soon. At least not until it is too late..... Damn, I am sooooooo sick of bickering back and forth like 8th graders....... (Message edited by odie on December 04, 2009) |
