| Author | Message | ||
     Reindog |
The tepid applause by the military cadets was telling. They know a political speech over a military speech when they hear it. Obama is weak but he might go on a kill crazy rampage if he gets a hold of Charlotte's ibogaine.  | ||
| Whatever |
Yeah you could tell all the smiling cadets that were swarming to shake his hand and take his photo at the end were pretty neutral... We only see what we want to see I guess... I did see one of them sleeping tho, poor kid probably puts in a 14 hour day... (Message edited by Whatever on December 02, 2009) | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Where are all you whiners that hate Obama now??? How weak does he appear to you now that he has committed to 30,000 more troops in Afghanistan... I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals... speak up speak up you fear mongers... Well I cannot stand Obama, I won't ever be supportive of him or his decisions. Period. Let's talk as to why all of this is smoke and mirrors. 1. Opium production that was almost at a standstill since the end of the Russian occupation is in full bloom, pardon the pun, and the leader of this country has a brother that is the biggest drug kinpin/warlord in Afghanistan. I doubt Opium production will suffer a bit, amazing how those fields don't seem to be attacked...by anyone. 2. The surge is not to protect other troops or to satisfy his General, it is to protect Unical's oil pipeline. 3. If the situation were handled better back in 2001 by then President George Bush I don't think we would be fighting a ground war anywhere. He squandered all of our political capital world wide with his tactics, he was reckless and wanted to prove how tough he was, plus there was that Unical pipeline the Taliban would not approve, that needed to be put in. 4. While I could not stand GW, I knew the minute I read Obama's book if he were elected we were screwed. I still think I am right about that. He is not truly qualified to be president. I miss the good ol' days of Slick Willie, I served in the Army under him and George H.W. Bush, and I can tell you I have more confidence in his decisions, even to get a hummer in the oval office from a fat chick (why could she have not been really hot?? He was the President for christsakes...) than our current elected official. 5. A ground war in Asia is exactly what you don't want, in any part of Asia, middle, east or west. The countryside makes tactical maneuvers almost impossible, and once a defensible position is gained it is difficult to root them out. The current "army" of thugs we fight are dig in like a tick on a hound. It will be tough to root them out, really tough, ask the Russians. 6. While I could never prove it, I wonder how much aid Russia is giving those that fight us? A little payback to Charlie Wilson maybe? It seems they have good intel, are well armed, trained and have in effect split the larger regions into held or disputed territory. It just crosses my mind. 7. As far as Whatever's unwavering support for Obama, while I find it a bit naive it is a free country, and you can choose to help flush it down the toilet if you want to. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
GO Rumsfeld!!!  | ||
| P_squared |
We only see what we want to see I guess... Does that include Chris "Tingly legs" Matthews thinking West Point is an “Enemy Camp?” I’m curious if that was a Freudian slip, or an actual glimpse into the psyche of someone who truly & honestly distrusts our military? And if it wasn’t a “slip,” why would you equate a US Military Academy as an “enemy” but not those who actually killed ~3k folks on 9/11? As for "I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals" can someone explain to me the military principle of a "surge & exit" tactic and the goal(s) it is meant to achieve? I’m really curious on this, as I’ve never really seen this tactic used successfully to achieve a worthwhile long range goal. Please enlighten me. I have no beef with him giving the speech at West Point. I give him props for finally sending troops that his own handpicked General asked for, even though I wish it were more in line with the #'s requested when they were requested. I have problems when we capture a Tango on our base in Kandahar wearing a suicide vest & then subsequently release him because he wasn't mirandized. Don’t bother looking for this being reported by the MSM. It happened months ago & was hushed up. I wonder why? I have problems when 3 Navy SEALs have to request Court Martial because the scumbag they captured got a fat lip and the only folks talking about it are on FOX. I have problems when we publicly announce when we plan to depart. “Here’s the keys to your country, hope it works out for you.” I have problems when POTUS’ speech and prior proclamations state Afghanistan is “the good war” but never utters the words “victory” or “win” in his speech announcing a troop increase. I have problems when POTUS says this conflict is VITAL to our national security interests (which I also believe) yet says nothing about WINNING and basing an exit strategy on cost. Doesn’t make sense to me how those two things can be squared up. Finally, against all reason & experience, I honestly HOPE Gen. McChrystal can make this work. If it does, then by all means, let the glory be showered upon President Obama for winning. When/If it doesn’t work though, and we’re attacked again by AQ elements being harbored by Taliban extremists in areas of Afghanistan they reclaimed after July 2011, please feel free to classify me as just a radical right wing fearmonger. | ||
| Chellem |
Zoinks, Shaggy, but the liberals have turned on Obama. http://www.michaelmoore.com/ Check out the updated site. Obama: 30,000 more troops to Afghanistan Obama: "We Did Not Ask for This Fight" | Bush: "We Did Not Seek This Conflict" Obama: "New Attacks are Being Plotted as I Speak" | Bush: "At This Moment ... Terrorists are Planning New Attacks" Obama: "Our Cause is Just, Our Resolve Unwavering" | Bush: "Our Cause is Just, Our Coalition [is] Determined" Obama: "This Is No Idle Danger, No Hypothetical Threat" | Bush: "The Enemies of Freedom Are Not Idle" Obama: "We Have No Interest in Occupying Your Country" | Bush: "I Wouldn't Be Happy if I Were Occupied Either" Not mad for the same reasons as me, but still entertaining for me all the same.. | ||
| Froggy |
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| Whatever |
I think there are similarities between Obamas speech and Bush's stance for sure, but I also do not think that Obama is off the mark, I do not agree with Micheal Moore and all the liberals either on this one... He has listened to what the military advisors are suggesting... no one wants an endless war, especially those brave men and women who have had to sacrificed so much already... What mystifies me, again, is offering a seat for the Taliban to sit down at the table and become a part of a democratic government... that just seems like Disneyland thinking to me... ie "after we tame the monster it won't be a monster anymore"... As far as comparing these wars to World War II, the cost of victory both in Europe and Asia was enlisting the draft and then using the bomb which will be debated until the end of time as far as morality arguments (i still have a mixed opinion on that one) ... a good reason this war is taking so long is we are only using soldiers that have enlisted (active duty or reservists) voluntarily... Anyhow, just my two cents, which isn't worth much... I do apologize for being completely obnoxious about my previous post but I just am tired of all the POTUS bashing... I mean, if the shoe were on the other foot and we were dealing with McCain and his hundred years of war to come, would people be any less bitter? | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
I did see one of them sleeping tho, poor kid probably puts in a 14 hour day... It's been reported, that because of security protocol, the cadets were seated a full 4 hours before the speech. | ||
| Whatever |
All I could think about was the suffering... not just during the speech, but that the jrs and srs will all be sent to the Middle East... and probably before they reach 22 yrs old... it still truly boggles my mind. | ||
| Court |
>>>I do apologize for being completely obnoxious about my previous post but I just am tired of all the POTUS bashing. No need to apologize in my book. It's the fact that you are passionate and believe that makes you such a welcome component in a conversation. The fact that we're polar opposites . . . details. I admire folks who HAVE a belief system more than those who agree but are wishy washy. I get called names a lot but I too know what I believe. Now . . .argue with me damnit! | ||
| M2me |
What mystifies me, again, is offering a seat for the Taliban to sit down at the table and become a part of a democratic government... that just seems like Disneyland thinking to me... ie "after we tame the monster it won't be a monster anymore"... That horse is already out of the barn. Some Taliban members have won seats in Afghanistan's parliament. The Taliban question is not as simple as bad guys vs good guys. The Taliban does have support in Afghanistan and they have done some good in the past. They fought corruption, brought stability to some areas, etc. They shouldn't be allowed to have as much power as they did pre-2001 but attempting to wipe them out might end up doing more harm than good. That's would be like what we did with the Baathists and the military in Iraq. We threw the baby out with the bath water and made things worse than they should have been. Not smart. I think Obama's plan is a good one. It's the best of the bad options anyway. We are going to end up having close to 100,000 troops in Afghanistan. We are going to try to do as much good as we can over the next year and a half. After that, it's time to come home and turn Afghanistan over to the Afghans. Is it going to be a perfect, US friendly democracy at that time? No, it won't. But it's not likely that it will be in another ten years. Obama is just being honest and reality based. We aren't going to be there for another ten years. We can't "spread freedom and democracy" throughout the world militarily. That's reality. | ||
| Aesquire |
My objection to Obama's "plan" is that the domestic political aspects dominate. It is foolish to set time tables and announce limitations that the enemy can exploit. it is done to pacify the leftist antiwar types. This seldom ends well. The surge concept might work, and I hope it does, and that we can offer enough security to get the locals to come together in peace. ( hard one that ) I will refrain from a long rant on how this tactic was rejected by Obama before he adopted it as his own with a new paintjob. I don't care who gets credit, as long as we win. We can argue glory later. I worry about the deliberate language used. Victory is not allowed? Did we check to see if the Talib learned leftist bulls&it and can translate to Pashtu? We don't want them to think we are idiots do we? As far as Cheney's 100 year war goes.... How long now have the U.S. been fighting islamic pirates, thugs and slavers? Why does Jefferson come to mind? One reason we have a radical religious terrorist thugocracy, the Taliban, is the power vacuum left when the Soviets pulled out & we cut off help. Let's not screw it up again, please. | ||
| M2me |
I will refrain from a long rant on how this tactic was rejected by Obama before he adopted it as his own with a new paintjob. He rejected it in Iraq. Iraq and Afghanistan are not the same thing. Obama campaigned on the idea that Iraq is the "bad war" and Afghanistan is the "good war". One reason we have a radical religious terrorist thugocracy, the Taliban, is the power vacuum left when the Soviets pulled out & we cut off help. Another reason is because we supported the Afghanistan mujahideen in their fight against the Soviets. Some of those mujahideen later became what we know today as Taliban and al queada. At one time the enemy was the Soviets and we saw the mujahideens as our friends. We and the mujahideen were never true friends. We just operated for awhile on the idea that the enemy of my enemy is my friend. Once our common goal of defeating the Soviets was achieved, the friendship ended. | ||
| Xb12xmike |
We need the troops build up so that we can increase the chances of success at doing as much good as possible, as soon as possible but it does'nt mean that is going to happen in that timeframe. (obamatime) Ten years will go by fast. | ||
| Blake |
All I could think about was the suffering... not just during the speech, but that the jrs and srs will all be sent to the Middle East... and probably before they reach 22 yrs old... it still truly boggles my mind. Char, I understand, those men and women are without a doubt among the very best of all of us. I think we may not appreciate enough their maturity, understanding, and dedication. Why do you imagine they would sign on for military service knowing full well that they are likely to go to war? Wow. I'm truly and justly humbled by such amazing young men and women. Volunteers sure beats conscription, no? During WW-II some sixteen million Americans saw war duty. Some 300,000 died. Compared to that the ~2 million served and 4,000 total deaths, just 1.3% compared to WW-II, is encouraging. The death rate equates to 0.2% of all serving military. Every year in America, some 40,000 people die as a result of motor vehicle crashes. Over the eight years of the war, that amounts to roughly 320,000 Americans dead due to motor vehicle crashes, a full 0.1% of the population. Not trying to diminish the cost of war, or the horrors of war. Just looking at the big picture. Freedom isn't free. Driving isn't without risk. | ||
| Road_thing |
In 1969, I raised my right hand and was sworn in as a midshipman at the US Naval Academy in Annapolis, just the same as those West Pointers did. I knew full well then that when I graduated, I was probably headed for Viet Nam. The cadets at the Point knew when they joined that there was a war on (two, actually) and that fighting in one or the other of those wars was their professional destiny. They (and I) made informed decisions. No need to feel bad for them. rt | ||
| Whatever |
I did mention McCain and his hundred years of war plan... Don't get me wrong, I actually like McCain a great deal (it is Palin I hate, if I have to hear her say "Maverick" one more time I am going to scream)... Oh well, whatever, nevermind... Blake, I am not doubting any soldier's capabilities and commitment wether they volunteered from the slums of LA at 18 or they are a West Point graduate. That is not for me to say... I just have a lot of compassion for those who serve or have served and thier families and what they go through, that is all... | ||
| Reindog |
Charlotte, Are you sure you HATE Palin or are you a victim of the Goebbels like incessant propaganda assassination of her? The media and the Left is so terrified of her that they must destroy her in an unfair and unbalanced way . As a woman and a feminist, you will know that they are gunning after you too if you should get out of line. Their attack is an affront to ALL women, not just Palin. What I am trying to say is subtle. I am not a particular fan of Palin as she really isn't ready for prime time. She has good points along with the bad and criticism of her is absolutely merited but not the Nazi like dog piling on her. It is so incessant that you might be using the media's words rather than your own and you might not even know it. I actually doubt you hate anyone. | ||
| Whatever |
Um, you are correct, I hate no one. But I strongly dislike Palin, listening to her is like nails on a chalk board, maybe it is the nasal whine... I have not read a great deal on her politics, it is just a visceral reaction I suppose, gut level deep annoyment. I used to like Clinton before I started reading her book "Living History" and I found out she is a Nantucket snob who has a lot of attitude to go with her new-old money. I don't like her much either. I am not a big reader of opinions of the press... I have read one and a half of Obamas books (need to re read Constitutional Law section), started Clinton's (H Clintons) book and couldn't stomach it. I am curious enough to read Palin's new book, but only if I get it from the library... I am not giving her any of my money. If you want to buy it for me for Xmas I will probably at least try to read it.  Anyhow I am probably making enemies by talking politics. I wish I was more informed but man, that would cut into my badweb and facebook time... Anyhow when classes start and if I can keep my job I will get pretty busy. (Message edited by Whatever on December 03, 2009) | ||
| Blake |
Nah, no enemies here! You kidding me! I'm a big fan!  Hey, you should see my backyard er......!  | ||
| Blake |
I'd better save that for another separate topic. | ||
| Whatever |
I have seen pictures of it Blake and it looks as hard as steel.... of course those not on FB will have no clue what we are talking about... Another thread sucessfully in the toilet...  | ||
| Drkside79 |
+1 on Palin slander In my opinion she is the worst possible thing the Republican party can put out there as a leader. I hate to hear her speak. Between her march of moral majority holier than thou attitude, and her ridicules comments such as Joe six pack and You betcha. It all makes my ears bleed. Can you imagine if they won and God forbid McCain had died in office..... | ||
| P_squared |
Can you imagine if they won and God forbid McCain had died in office..... Can you imagine the same scenario but replace Palin with Biden? "Three letters...J-O-B-S"...yup, I shudder at night to even contemplate that bafoon being in charge. | ||
| Drkside79 |
I would take Biden over Palin. Actually i would possibly vote for you over Palin. | ||
| Reindog |
I prefer Biden over Obama. Biden is a harmless hack whereas Obama is dangerous. Heck, I prefer Palin over Obama or Biden. You betcha! | ||
| Whatever |
Biden is harmless. Palin is just plain creepy... Yikes...  | ||
| P_squared |
Biden is harmless. Only 'cuz his boss won't let him near the controls. The guy has been plain WRONG on every bit of foreign policy I've heard come out of his mouth. (Advocating splitting Iraq into 3 countries, using UAV's & "ninjas" in Afghanistan, etc., etc.) I just wish we had LEADERS (multiple) to choose from when it comes to elections. Haven't seen any of those in quite some time. I can understand folks being opposed to Palin. I can't understand folks giving Biden a pass when he's repeatedly exhibited the same (or worse) stupidity Palin has been accused of. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Now i would vote for Tina Fey. lol |
