| Author | Message | ||
     Ferris_von_bueller |
Dear President Obama, Do you really want to be the new "war president"? If you go to West Point tomorrow night (Tuesday, 8pm) and announce that you are increasing, rather than withdrawing, the troops in Afghanistan, you are the new war president. Pure and simple. And with that you will do the worst possible thing you could do -- destroy the hopes and dreams so many millions have placed in you. With just one speech tomorrow night you will turn a multitude of young people who were the backbone of your campaign into disillusioned cynics. You will teach them what they've always heard is true -- that all politicians are alike. I simply can't believe you're about to do what they say you are going to do. Please say it isn't so. It is not your job to do what the generals tell you to do. We are a civilian-run government. WE tell the Joint Chiefs what to do, not the other way around. That's the way General Washington insisted it must be. That's what President Truman told General MacArthur when MacArthur wanted to invade China. "You're fired!," said Truman, and that was that. And you should have fired Gen. McChrystal when he went to the press to preempt you, telling the press what YOU had to do. Let me be blunt: We love our kids in the armed services, but we f*#&in' hate these generals, from Westmoreland in Vietnam to, yes, even Colin Powell for lying to the UN with his made-up drawings of WMD (he has since sought redemption). So now you feel backed into a corner. 30 years ago this past Thursday (Thanksgiving) the Soviet generals had a cool idea -- "Let's invade Afghanistan!" Well, that turned out to be the final nail in the USSR coffin. There's a reason they don't call Afghanistan the "Garden State" (though they probably should, seeing how the corrupt President Karzai, whom we back, has his brother in the heroin trade raising poppies). Afghanistan's nickname is the "Graveyard of Empires." If you don't believe it, give the British a call. I'd have you call Genghis Khan but I lost his number. I do have Gorbachev's number though. It's + 41 22 789 1662. I'm sure he could give you an earful about the historic blunder you're about to commit. With our economic collapse still in full swing and our precious young men and women being sacrificed on the altar of arrogance and greed, the breakdown of this great civilization we call America will head, full throttle, into oblivion if you become the "war president." Empires never think the end is near, until the end is here. Empires think that more evil will force the heathens to toe the line -- and yet it never works. The heathens usually tear them to shreds. Choose carefully, President Obama. You of all people know that it doesn't have to be this way. You still have a few hours to listen to your heart, and your own clear thinking. You know that nothing good can come from sending more troops halfway around the world to a place neither you nor they understand, to achieve an objective that neither you nor they understand, in a country that does not want us there. You can feel it in your bones. I know you know that there are LESS than a hundred al-Qaeda left in Afghanistan! A hundred thousand troops trying to crush a hundred guys living in caves? Are you serious? Have you drunk Bush's Kool-Aid? I refuse to believe it. Your potential decision to expand the war (while saying that you're doing it so you can "end the war") will do more to set your legacy in stone than any of the great things you've said and done in your first year. One more throwing a bone from you to the Republicans and the coalition of the hopeful and the hopeless may be gone -- and this nation will be back in the hands of the haters quicker than you can shout "tea bag!" Choose carefully, Mr. President. Your corporate backers are going to abandon you as soon as it is clear you are a one-term president and that the nation will be safely back in the hands of the usual idiots who do their bidding. That could be Wednesday morning. We the people still love you. We the people still have a sliver of hope. But we the people can't take it anymore. We can't take your caving in, over and over, when we elected you by a big, wide margin of millions to get in there and get the job done. What part of "landslide victory" don't you understand? Don't be deceived into thinking that sending a few more troops into Afghanistan will make a difference, or earn you the respect of the haters. They will not stop until this country is torn asunder and every last dollar is extracted from the poor and soon-to-be poor. You could send a million troops over there and the crazy Right still wouldn't be happy. You would still be the victim of their incessant venom on hate radio and television because no matter what you do, you can't change the one thing about yourself that sends them over the edge. The haters were not the ones who elected you, and they can't be won over by abandoning the rest of us. President Obama, it's time to come home. Ask your neighbors in Chicago and the parents of the young men and women doing the fighting and dying if they want more billions and more troops sent to Afghanistan. Do you think they will say, "No, we don't need health care, we don't need jobs, we don't need homes. You go on ahead, Mr. President, and send our wealth and our sons and daughters overseas, 'cause we don't need them, either." What would Martin Luther King, Jr. do? What would your grandmother do? Not send more poor people to kill other poor people who pose no threat to them, that's what they'd do. Not spend billions and trillions to wage war while American children are sleeping on the streets and standing in bread lines. All of us that voted and prayed for you and cried the night of your victory have endured an Orwellian hell of eight years of crimes committed in our name: torture, rendition, suspension of the bill of rights, invading nations who had not attacked us, blowing up neighborhoods that Saddam "might" be in (but never was), slaughtering wedding parties in Afghanistan. We watched as hundreds of thousands of Iraqi civilians were slaughtered and tens of thousands of our brave young men and women were killed, maimed, or endured mental anguish -- the full terror of which we scarcely know. When we elected you we didn't expect miracles. We didn't even expect much change. But we expected some. We thought you would stop the madness. Stop the killing. Stop the insane idea that men with guns can reorganize a nation that doesn't even function as a nation and never, ever has. Stop, stop, stop! For the sake of the lives of young Americans and Afghan civilians, stop. For the sake of your presidency, hope, and the future of our nation, stop. For God's sake, stop. Tonight we still have hope. Tomorrow, we shall see. The ball is in your court. You DON'T have to do this. You can be a profile in courage. You can be your mother's son. We're counting on you. Yours, Michael Moore MMFlint@aol.com MichaelMoore.com | ||
| Vanvideo |
(snif) Moved me to tears. | ||
| Drkside79 |
Michael more annoys me but he does make a few good points. I really don't think we can win this war we are fighting but at the same time I don't want the troops currently there abandoned by lack of support. This is a crappy decision that must be made and I am glad I don't have to make it. God bless all of the troops that will be effected by this decision one way or another. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
True. However, Obama did say, when he was campaigning, that Afghanistan was the war we should be fighting | ||
| Cataract2 |
Wow, so with what he's done already he hasn't caused this? Nope, it's just this upcoming discussion will do it. Shut up you fat ****. | ||
| P47b |
You hit a nerve. One of my best friends is there now. He will come back. Michael Moron, He never had a clue on this. You just can't up and leave after you invade. Look at what Sumalya did for the Taliban & al-Qaeda influence when we pulled out. Were there now. If we leave we will be in trouble on our own turf again. This is something you don’t need to play around with. They make people believe by changing the words of there holy book around. Just think, if we would have stayed in Germany after WWI would we have been back? | ||
| Odie |
....what are these great things he has done?????? Please list them. | ||
| Odie |
Did anyone go see the latest MM film about the economy? It's funny how he is concerned about the Bill of Rights but could care less about the Constitutional Amendments. | ||
| Malott442 |
1. He was the first black president, duh! 2. He said he was going to do many many things...... 3. And then................. | ||
| Strokizator |
Obama mobilized the far-left to help get him elected and then just kicked them to the curb (with the exception of SEIU). Talk about your useful idiots. | ||
| Rick_a |
Exactly. The Vietnam analogy is not a good one. Vietnam is what happens when politicians are conducting a war. Desert Storm is an example of how the military wages war. I don't care what the politicians or public has to say about the situation in Afghanistan...I'd listen to the guys on the ground. If they truly need more troops, let 'em have it. The hard part is knowing exactly who's agenda is pulling the strings. | ||
| Chellem |
I would agree with MM on a few key points, if the rest of the letter weren't DRIPPING with rhetoric. I can't stand rhetoric. And I'm not sure it was a "landslide" victory by "millions" of people, once you filter out all the dead and/or imaginary folks who voted. No one wants to send their babies to war. I would be crippled with fear every day if my children were in Afghanistan. Unfortunately, that by itself is not enough reason to not send more troops. That's been true since the first child went to the first war. The question is whether this is a war we as Americans want to win. Or can win. Once we decide, then we commit to that end. And his belief that we are fighting 100 men in caves is ridiculous. They've already proven themselves to be organized, well-trained, and most importantly, well-funded. So please, I've heard him spew that bit of rhetoric enough. It's just not true. This guy is a polarizing figure, ON PURPOSE, because it helps him sell himself, and by selling himself and his persona, he makes money. He's the poster child for capitalism and why it works. Create a product that sells, and sell it, and make money, and he does that fairly well. It's just ironic that his rhetoric is all about how rich people suck. Rich people like him. What a freakin' jerk this guy is. ->ChelleM | ||
| Aesquire |
thank you michael, I applaud you speaking up for the radical leftists. I would recommend that your films be played at Gitmo, or whatever facility is chosen to hold your comrades, you know, the ones captured on the battlefield you are too rich & fat to fight at. We must be kind, I'd say no more than 3 m. Moore movies a day, every day. | ||
| Reepicheep |
I got a kick out of reading the letter, it sounded like some internet crackpot, and not a particularly insightful one at that... We have much smarter and more coherent liberals posting here, and even smarter and more coherent liberals here that are quiet. I had a nice cigar with one in Franklin, NC. Good times... | ||
| Mike75 |
Wow. This guy needs friends that disagree with him, cause he is so far out of touch it's pathetic. Don Quixote carrying the banner of some neverland JFK early sixties version of America that never existed. In the face of the tide of history, his standard has turned into a hateful paranoid bile. The fact that I somewhat agree with him is irrelevant. His is the stuff that fills up the dustbin of history. Follow his ravings at your own peril. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
http://www.msnbc.msn.com/id/34218604/ns/politics-w hite_house I guess the letter didn't persuade him....who knows..... | ||
| Court |
Nutcase | ||
| 2008xb12scg |
I'm sure the President took time out of his busy schedule to read that one... | ||
| Whatever |
Where are all you whiners that hate Obama now??? How weak does he appear to you now that he has committed to 30,000 more troops in Afghanistan... I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals... speak up speak up you fear mongers... | ||
| P_squared |
Where are all you whiners that hate Obama now??? How weak does he appear to you now that he has committed to 30,000 more troops in Afghanistan... I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals... speak up speak up you fear mongers... You don't REALLY want to go down that road. He almost gave the theatre commander what he asked for (only 10k less). It only took him 3+ months to make the decision (that could have been made back in August). We have a public timetable for withdrawal (nothin like tellin the bad guys how long they have to lay low). Anyone who has spent any amount of time in $h!tty parts of the world getting paid by Uncle Sam while carrying things that go "boom" already has a pretty good idea how this story ends. I'll give you a hint, it ain't pretty. I will give him props though for at least sending the troops and expediting it with the Marines. I hope Stan the Man can put them to good use & figure out a way to make this soup sandwich a little more appealing in the long run. | ||
| Chellem |
Where are all you whiners that hate Obama now??? How weak does he appear to you now that he has committed to 30,000 more troops in Afghanistan... I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals... speak up speak up you fear mongers... THAT was fairly obnoxious. Nothing like STARTING a political debate with name-calling. Don't even give it a chance to degrade to personal insults - just start right out with it. Awesome. | ||
| Court |
He looks as "presidential" as a waiter at Denny's. | ||
| Kilroy |
Make that dish washer..... | ||
| Drkside79 |
You all never quit. He did exactly what half of you have asked for and still you criticize and bitch. Unbelievable | ||
| Chellem |
He didn't do what *I* asked for. He committed to troops, but fewer troops than his general asked for, and months after he asked for them. Then he let our enemy know exactly when we're giving in and leaving, so they could plan THEIR timeline. I don't think that was what *I* wanted. But that's just me. Color me fear-monger I guess. | ||
| Aesquire |
I must have missed the part where half of us asked for a delay in giving the General Obama chose & the strategy Obama chose the troops Obama's strategy called for in the opinion of the General Obama chose. This delay during the deadliest months of the conflict in the Afghan front, seems to be a pure political move to mollify the antiwar leftist that Obama panders to. M Moore, is just one of the more outspoken a$$holes that seem to have created this delay and increased the loss of life in the war, not on Afghanistan, but on the murderous thugs who wish to retake the country we freed. Obama, during his campaign made the political calculation to denigrate the Iraqi front & claim the Afghan front was the righteous war. You remember, to make Obama "not George Bush". A winning strategy in domestic politics, but a life consuming tragedy to the troops of multiple nations killed by Taliban & AQ bombs & attacks as the leaders of the bad guys pour money & bombs into Afghanistan to show up the new president. Remember Bush's "bring it on"? Obama did that for nearly 2 years. Even threatened to invade Pakistan during the campaign to make himself seem different than Bush, the president who ( unwisely IMHO ) didn't threaten to invade allies to go catch bad guys. Now Obama must change political course & claim he's going for an "end game" to make the antiwar left happy. I don't know if the plan for an Iraqi style surge to protect the people & build their confidence in the central govt. and build resistance to the Taliban will work. The Urban nature of Iraq & it's much more modern society make it very different than the uber rural back country mountain folk on the Afghan front. There are many Afghani's who have never left their home valley, and never met the guys on the other side of the mountain they've lived in the shadow of their whole lives. In too many cases their first glimpse of outside culture is when they are brought to Pakistan, fed hatred in a mardras and taught to shoot weapons. It's a scary situation, that, although simmering since 2002 with the downfall of the Taliban, is now in full invasion mode from Pakistan & Iran. ( the 800 lb. gorilla in the picture that no one wants to talk about ) I also bitched about Bush's tactics in Iraq. I'd have done it differently, in many cases. Now I don't criticize Obams's surge itself at this time. Just the delay & political games involved. Afghanistan actually has done very well in the last 6 of 7 years, & it's Possible that Obama's plan will work, if it's in coordination with Pakistan's drive against the taliban. We don't have all the facts, & I pray that Obama does, and will act wisely. Obama DID chose a good General, then famously did not meet with him for months. Doesn't give me confidence in how well integrated Obama is with his own command structure, but that is an opinion, we will see if I'm wrong to be concerned. I have hope that Obama's choice for a General works out & that we succeed on this front. Setting a public timetable though, is stupid and destructive to the process Obama says he wants. Another political calculation that is smart domesticaly, but criminally foolish in war. I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals I might be as well if I knew what they were. I sometimes agree with Obama, he just seldom does what he promises. Still waiting for him to cancel "don't ask don't tell". I think an all volunteer, all lesbian "Xena" division, preferably armored cav, perhaps with Strykers, would be perfect for the middle east. That would definitely mess with the Taliban's misogynist psyche. (Message edited by aesquire on December 02, 2009) | ||
| Whatever |
I know how to fix it... why don't one of you run for POTUS!!! at least Aesquire has thought out his argument... Anyhow, the only thing I disagreed with on that speech was saying that peaceful Taliban will be brought to the table to govern the new Afghanistan... That will not work considering they are an extreme Islamic faction that systematically excludes 50% of thier own population... women... | ||
| Reindog |
Where are all you whiners that hate Obama now??? How weak does he appear to you now that he has committed to 30,000 more troops in Afghanistan... I am 100% behind this tactic and his long range goals... speak up speak up you fear mongers... Charlotte, did you just OD on ibogaine? That was the best post in a while! I have been accused of being a fishmonger, never a fearmonger. (Message edited by reindog on December 02, 2009) | ||
| Whatever |
I can deal with a fishmonger  | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,6 64753,00.html A different opinion. I can't run for POTUS, I have morals. |
