| Author | Message | ||
     Reg_kittrelle |
All is smoke and mirrors until someone explains the revenue stream. I'm very happy for Erik, but like myself and dozens of others have said... This ain't over yet. | ||
| Court |
>>>Why aren't Erik or the elves fighting this? Would you place 3 or 4 months of severance pay and your C.O.B.R.A. insurance at risk? It would be unwise, speaking strictly for myself, to bite the hand that feeds in . . . particularly in these times. HD has nothing to do the "allowing Erik to rent part of the old factory". Several locations were considered. Unit "C" will be available, convenient and works nicely. >>>Out of curiosity, I'd like to see who the partners are of EBR, LLC. Easy. There is ONE partner, Erik Buell. >>>Probably thanking them for letting him out of the remaining term on his contract. Perhaps, but I don't know. The idea that Erik was going to be a "technical consultant" for the next 18 months did nothing but entertain most. I'm thrilled to see he last day with Harley-Davidson only days away. Party on Wayne. >>>>if shirts are going to be available, will there also be some of the other great looking gear that buell had to offer. pants, jackets, helmets, gloves etc. Unlikely at present. I DO NOT know but would suggest the K.I.S.S. approach. I'd like to see a 2 shirts (t-shirt and a race jersey), a hat and a jacket within the next month to allow folks to participate in some way. Beyond that I'd suggest other things be held in abatement while more important business issues are attended to. >>> what are the chances of ever being able to buy stock in the company. No one knows the answer to that at this time and there are no plans at this time. Great place to insert the "never say never" line. Personally, I'd like to see Buell a publicly held company with 2,000 employees about 5 years from now . . . but that's strictly personal and I have a love of growing things.  It's all good . . . SEE YOU AT THE RACES. | ||
| Mndwgz |
Party on Garth!  | ||
| Redbuelljunkie |
So, Erik Buell's new race shop, Erik Buell Racing, will be building 1125R-based race bikes and race engines, along with race parts, race prep, and tech support for privateer teams campaigning Buell motorcycles. EB will be allowed, "under license" from H-D, to build his bikes, engines and parts which are based on his 1125R ( a bike no longer in production) made by his company- the Buell Motorcycle Company (a division of H-D that has been discontinued). All of this is presented with a smile and a gracious "thank you" to Harley-Davidson. I have found a new level of respect for Erik Buell- the man has way more professionalism than I will ever have. I am unable, at this time, to make heads or tails of this. On the surface, although seemingly good news for EB, it does not make sense to me. Here are my issues: 1. How can anyone race a Buell motorcycle when the Buell Motorcycle Company does not exist? 2. Who is going to privately campaign an 1125R-based race bike? 3. Will there be enough privateers racing 1125R-based race bikes to support BRC? 4. I would hope the goal would be to race the Barracuda, which is 1125R-based, but this returns us to question 1 above. 5. If H-D's decision to end all Buell production is "... not a reversible decision", how can they license 1125R-based race bike production to an independent shop? 6. If H-D's decision to end Buell production was for financial reasons, what do they get out of licensing 1125R-based race bike production? 7. If the public backlash to Buell's perceived advantage in the 2009 Championship season was bad, how will it be in 2010 when there are Buell race bikes running but the Buell Motorcycle Company doesn't exist? The only intelligent solution I can come up with, and I don't like the idea myself, would be to re-badge the 1125 line as H-D. This would be good in the following ways: a. H-D would instantly have a proven, kick-ass race team. b. H-D would have a badged line of sporting motorcycles, and probably better dealer acceptance. c. The real goal would be the introduction of the Barracuda- a world class sport bike proudly waiving the H-D flag. d. H-D could earn their first road racing success under their own name. e. It would appear as a genius move to allow EB to struggle under his own name to the verge of international success- and then slap an H-D badge on the fruits of his labor and bask in the glory. f. By keeping EB through BRC, H-D gets the genius without the headache (their view)- which results in a win-win for all involved. This hypothesis does not hold water due to the following: H-D is in dire financial straights, H-D claims no Buell product will use the H-D badge, H-D claims to be focused on the "core product", and I don't for one second believe H-D is smart enough to come up with a plan like this. I, like everyone else here, will just have to wait and see how this story unfolds... | ||
| Davegess |
You all need to remember that EBR is not taking over Buell Motorcycles form H-D. This is going to be a small group of people trying to make a living out of race bikes and parts. Where it might be in two years is hard to know. One could make all sorts of guesses but I will leave that to the internet rumor machine. For now most to the folks at Buell are trying to lockdown employment in a tough market. Saying or doing anything that would kill their severance package would be unwise. They have families to take care of. The engineering staff is likely OK, lots of talent, skills etc to market. The non engineering staff are the folks I worry about. The material handlers, the assemblers, the buyers, the human resource folks. If you hear of any jobs in the Milwaukee area that may not be advertised yet drop me i line and I will pass it on. davegess at yahoo | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
http://www.delorean.com/index-5.html Something similar but for racers (with trickle down benefits for the rest of us Buell owners). | ||
| Badlionsfan |
a. H-D would instantly have a proven, kick-ass race team. What team is that? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
RedBuell. No new 1125's are being built. By the sounds of it. EBR is going to be a source of parts and efforts to keep the bikes that are existing, running. | ||
| Sphere79 |
Buellinachinashop - did you not see where Erik said they will be building "Buell 1125R-based" bikes under license from HD? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"based" means what to you? "Based" to me means built on already existing platforms. Harley/Buell aren't building anymore 1125's. (Message edited by buellinachinashop on November 22, 2009) | ||
| Sphere79 |
You're right, Harley/Buell won't be - but Erik Buell Racing will, apparently. The lingering question for me seems to be where will these bikes be run past 2010 or so? Unless there are sanctioning body rules changes, won't they require a certain number of "production" models be made to continue to be allowed to race in the future? | ||
| Americanmadexb |
Now i know where all the leftover 2010 models are going!! | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
This is going to be a small group of people trying to make a living out of race bikes and parts. Can one actually make a living from racing at the level of competition we are talking about? I realize the riders, mechanics at the top of the field can earn a living. For EB, it certainly doesn't seem comparable to running a motorcycle manufacturing company. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Will EBR be using the new Logo??? | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"but Erik Buell Racing will, apparently." With what motors, what frames? Those are contracts Harley owns. Nothing new is being built for him. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Now i know where all the leftover 2010 models are going!!" Leftovers? There are leftovers? I thought all 2010 models built had a desination to a dealer? Buell/HD demo and factory bikes will be auctioned off to dealers I was told. Maybe he can get his hands on some of those?? | ||
| Sphere79 |
With what motors, what frames? You'd have to ask EBR that question I suppose. I'd imagine the "under license from HD" might cover some of the contract issues. He did say they would be building new 1125R-based race-only bikes, so I would guess he has worked out enough of the potential supply issues with Harley. Who knows, maybe they'll be slightly different designs and suppliers? Anonymous suggested that EB owns the actual design patents, and only has to license the Buell name from HD. If that is the case, we might see Erik building "EBR" or some other branded bikes with Buell innovations sometime down the road. With Harley's 7 year obligation, and the intent to kill the brand completely - I doubt they would license the Buell name for any new (with a new dealer network) Buell production bike venture. This would of course be many years down the road, so who knows? (Message edited by Sphere79 on November 22, 2009) | ||
| Americanmadexb |
I'm guessing EBR will buy some of the 2010 bikes to start working on them.. Sphere, i don't think you understand "BASED" EBR from what i read, will be making race bikes out of bikes that already exist, not build new 1125r bikes.. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"With what motors, what frames? Those are contracts Harley owns." Source? More speculation: Erik may be limited by a "Shall not compete" agreement. Most are limited to a specific number of years, others are not. As a road race specific entity he does not compete with H-D. As a motorcycle manufacturer he would. If the "shall not compete" agreement does indeed exist and is limited to a specific time well then...??? On the other hand who knows what steady and strategically applied pressure could induce H-D to do? G | ||
| Sphere79 |
I think maybe I did read too much into it. I just don't understand why he would have to license anything from HD to retrofit already built production bikes? Though maybe because they will be sold as "new" Buell's by him he would need to? And where exactly will EBR be located? Is it one little office or wing of the Buell HQ and can it expand? I think I remember Court saying HD "bought out" the rest of the building lease. That information right there would kind of be a clue as to what the future could hold. If Erik can keep most of that building, and owns the rights to the patents (just speculation of course) - than that's the best outcome from this situation, imo. The "situation" being Harley's upper management decision to end BMC. After any non-compete is up, he could work out his own engine / frame / parts deals and build a new company with the same concept bikes. Assuming the market / investment / interest was there obviously. But either way him starting EBR (viewed through rosy glasses or not) does at least position him well going forward. Damnit - I probably did let my hope for the future get in the way of reality a bit. | ||
| Gregtonn |
"Anonymous suggested that EB owns the actual design patents, and only has to license the Buell name from HD." I don't know what Erik's latest contract with H-D said but once upon a time his contract said that if he left H-D, the Buell name went with him. G | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
The Buell name is trademarked and property of Harley Davidson. If he leaves, if he's fired, his name is owned by the MOCO. | ||
| Gregtonn |
'The Buell name is trademarked and property of Harley Davidson. If he leaves, if he's fired, his name is owned by the MOCO." Source? G | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Seriously? Harley closed Buell, what more of a source do you need? HD didn't close "X" motorcycle company, they closed Buell. They own the company, they own the trademark. When folks here have tried to copy or use Buell's logo, who's come after them? Harley, not Erik Buell. | ||
| Hex |
I can attest to the above... | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Me too. And not because of logo use. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Why does everyone keep talking about a non-compete clause? I haven't heard anyone, including Court, confirm it's existence. Why would HD license the 1125 but enforce a non-compete clause? Makes no sense. | ||
| Anonymous |
People are reading waaaay to much Machiavellianism into this. You don't have to believe me, but I promise this is the truth. It's simple - it's a race development shop. The space is rented, and will be part of one of the old Buell buildings, which will be vacated. H-D had the buildings leased into next spring so the space is sub-leased by EBR from H-D until then, at which time it will be rented from the building owner. The revenue stream will be from selling race parts (the initial inventory of which was obtained cheaply since it was deemed scrap), race-prepped 1125R based motorcycles (including the 1125RR) built out of these parts, race prepped-engines and race vehicle preparation services. Just like the video says. Is it a bit crazy for Erik to do this? Yes. What else would you expect? The goal is to keep the doors open at the little shop and keep a handful of people employed while other doors into the future are researched. Why did H-D allow it? *No cost to them *opportunity to go out with a little more grace *some free brand building to help keep the value up of the brand of which they have to sell off inventory, and that their dealers may have to take in on trade and re-sell. End of story. Really. That simple. | ||
| Ulynut |
Thank you. In the future, please don't reference Machiavellianism no more. Some of us are stoopit. An don't know no Machiavellianist stuff like that.  | ||
| Danger_dave |
>>When folks here have tried to copy or use Buell's logo, who's come after them? Harley, not Erik Buell.<< Dude only weighs 90 pounds. |
