| Author | Message | ||
     Xbrad9r |
Wolf, sent you a pm. | ||
| Elvis |
I think everybody can come up with their own themes and it's best that there is a broad and varied message to broad and varied sources, but if there was one point that I would like to see stressed, it's that: The rights to make Buell motorcycles CAN and should be sold to Erik Buell. Harley may not have a legal responsibility to to so, but they have a moral responsibility to do so. I don't have to be nice to the people I meet. I don't have to give money to cancer research or other charities. I don't have to do a lot of things that I do during a typical day, but I do those things because they are right. Harley Davidson could, tomorrow, without giving up anything of value to the company, sell the rights to make Buell motorcycles to Erik Buell for a dollar and that's the right thing to do. The motorcycle industry needs an American sport-bike manufacturer. Wisconsin needs jobs. America needs to show that they can produce innovative, high quality, high performance products. For Harley Davidson to deny all those groups the resource that is Buell and hide the Buell light under a bushel for petty and selfish reasons is flat WRONG. It's a greedy and indefensible act if viewed with any impartial scrutiny and I think the people you are writing to will recognize that if you can educate them and get them to think about the situation. I strongly believe that the facts and the moral high-ground are on our side, so if that can be communicated and enough people can focus on what is happening, I believe good things can happen. | ||
| Greg_e |
Could someone come up with the bullet points we need to make? Also I'm still a little concerned about lack of evidence (depending on who receives the letter) about the financials of Buell. Were they running in the black (break even = running in the black) or in the red? An important thing if approaching the major stock holders that are listed with the FTC. Are there certain stock holders that we know are personally against the Buell line? Are there holders that we know are for the Buell line and could use our letters for ammunition next time the board meets. Should we write to the voting board members? The bullet point facts would be a most important part, that way everyone can communicate the same thoughts rewritten in their own words so that everyone that receives a letter or three can see that we are all on the same page. That would matter most to the stock holders and legislators because nothing says important like unity of thought. And I'm not a great word smith, so I need the general idea to help shape my thoughts. One important thing to convey would be that if HD licensed the technology to a company, it would mean incoming money with basically zero expense! That is a hard one for the stockholders to pass up, it's basically free money and who wouldn't like that. The IP (intellectual property) is the real value, and even if HD was planning on using some or all of it, they could still license it out for a reasonable fee to collect that free money. | ||
| Brumbear |
Should we ask about the questionable ethics possibly applied by a public company. Is there a better way to get people looking into this quickly and agressively? I will write the letter I will get as many people as I can to write letters. The problem with me is I have no polish I don't know how to word it I am a good worker bee but thats about it. HELP | ||
| Tpoppa |
Elvis, I think the tone of your message is spot on. That message needs to be echoed. The motorcycle industry needs an American sport-bike manufacturer. Wisconsin needs jobs. America needs to show that they can produce innovative, high quality, high performance products. That line should be in front of government officials at the State level & higher. If HD wants to be seen an AMERICAN Icon, put your money where your chrome A$$ is and do something good for America. | ||
| Court |
I'd stay clear of the questionable ethics . . . there's strong evidence but the last thing we want is the be drug into a "she said, he said". I suspect they will hear about that from other sources as the media is already reaching the "hey, wait a minute . . these reasons don't add up". Smarter folks than us are on that case. I'd suggest RE-READING Elvis' post above. I think he's really captured the essence. In addition, if we stick to the "fairness and equity" theme . . I suspect we'll get excellent support from local politicians and civic groups. If Harley-Davidson doesn't want to produce Buell . . that's a business decision. However to say NO ONE can and deny those folks who can and want to produce Buells their jobs is patently unfair and unconscionable. We'll get someone working on some simple bullet points so we are sending a coherent message. I'm hoping folks will be able to use nearly the same letter and send it to:
We can leverage the facts and moral high ground. Think positive. By the way . . . if any of you are on other Buell boards, the GSXR or Hayabusa board . . . it wouldn't hurt to enlist those folks. I'm finding that even folks who have traditionally had no interest in owning a Buell are somewhat animated and up in arms about seeing this happen to Buell. Even folks that don't care for the bike admire the company. | ||
| Indy_bueller |
Hit up all your Facebook and MySpace friends as well. | ||
| Brumbear |
Thank you I will start the letter presently | ||
| Hughlysses |
Court- you mentioned Scott Gunderson as being the representative we should write. I used the U.S. Congress "look up my representative" page and it says Paul Ryan is the representative for East Troy (???). | ||
| Elvis |
Greg, I don't have profit break-downs, but here are some revenue numbers (Multiply by 1000 - the Harley numbers are based on motorcycle revenue, not T-shirts etc.): Buell Harley 1999 * 63,474 * 1,890,932 2000 * 58,053 * 2,246,403 2001 * 61,672 * 2,671,314 2002 * 66,949 * 3,161,046 2003 * 76,064 * 3,621,488 2004 * 79,029 * 3,928,232 2005 * 93,069 * 4,183,515 2006 * 102,227 * 4,553,561 2007 * 100,534 * 4,446,637 2008 * 123,086 * 4,278,241 I would say, based on those numbers, if Harley couldn't get a profit from Buell, they were doing something seriously wrong. Did they need Buell to grow 50% instead of a measly 23% from 2007 to 2008 make a profit? Harley certainly didn't do very well themselves over that period (and the entire Motorcycle industry has been shrinking since - if I remember correctly - 2005). Remember that just a few months before the shut-down was announced, Harley was talking about a new, larger facility for Buell. What the heck?!?! Either Buell wasn't doing so bad or there are some very foolish people in Harley management. It has to be one of those two. I don't see any other possibility. As for bullet points, I'd really like to stay away from that. Each audience will have different things that should be discussed and I think the people around here are smart and creative enough to create their own points for the particular audience. The one important thing I'd keep in mind is what I stated above: Buell CAN and should be sold | ||
| Court |
Paul Ryan is in the UNITED STATES Congress . . in Washington, D.C. . . . . not the WISCONSON LEGISLATURE in Madison. >>>>The one important thing I'd keep in mind is what I stated above: Buell CAN and should be sold Say that over and over . . . . no one wants HD to "reverse" (they said it was non-reversible . . . GREAT) . . . their decision. | ||
| Court |
Let me get this right . . . the company has HUNDREDS of accountants . . . more data than you can imagine . . . they meet . . . review the facts and announce this . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . . . . . . Same group . . . a couple months later . . . .with ONE set of quarterly financial reports in hand since the proud announcement of the new Buell facility . . . and what do we get . . . . . . . . . . .  . . . . . Anyone familiar with the saying . . . . . "Just doesn't look right". I'm supposed to believe that in one accounting period . . . one in which BUELL SALES ROSE . . . while HARLEY-DAVIDSON and VICTORY SALES FELL . . . that someone made an informed decision to not "cut back", "retrench", :slow down" but to close Buell . . . put Erik and most the PR staff under gag orders (the magazines I have spoken to are reporting that HD personnel are uncharacteristically not returning calls) . . . and simply snuffed Buell out. Tough to stomach. | ||
| Greg_e |
Sure does look like somebody pissed in someone else's pool. | ||
| Elvis |
An interesting thing with the numbers I posted above: Over the past 5 years, Buell grew *edit* 56%, Harley grew 9% over the same period. . . . when Harley decided they should focus on one brand, I wonder if they picked the right brand. . . (Message edited by elvis on November 17, 2009) | ||
| Odd |
While I agree that we may have the moral high ground. Harley is about dollars and facts. Harley is all about profit and we are not talking a few bucks!You need to make it worth the risk to either run Buell or sell it to someone else.You need money, a top team of mangers and someone else to accept the risk | ||
| Elvis |
Odd, if it was a simple matter of making an attractive offer to Harley our task would be much easier. Harley wants to kill Buell and they don't want them to survive at any price under any management. We need to press them to change that stance before we can start talking about price. Our best route toward that is to appeal to the court of public opinion to have as many people from as many different areas as possible putting pressure on Harley to do the right thing. The moment Harley says they're willing to consider offers and they're willing to let Erik Buell work with the new company there WILL be investment dollars. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Dear XXX, I would like to briefly share my thoughts and concerns about the recent announcement by Harely-Davidson Motor Company to discontinue production of Buell motorcycles. Not only is Buell a leader in manufacturing efficiency, they are a world class Research and Development facility. In addition the Buell business model can provide an example and inspiration for other manufactures and assembly facilities throughout the country. In view of current economic conditions it would be truly tragic to allow a company with such great potential to die an untimely death. Buell clearly has the potential to survive and thrive without the support of Harley-Davidson. Buell can and should be sold by Harley-Davidson. In addition to providing Harley-Davidson with much needed funds, allowing the continued existence of Buell would provide the economy with a much needed boost. Not only would the employees of Buell retains their jobs, so would those who provide peripheral support. Thank you for your consideration in this matter. Sincerely, Gregory R. Tonn Just a few quick thoughts put to keyboard. Fell free to use any part of it, or none of it and to add your own ideas. Also feel free to make corrections to my grammar, spelling or punctuation. G | ||
| P47b |
Here is a list I am compiling. Do I need to add to it? Feingold, Russell D. - (D - WI) Kohl, Herb - (D - WI) Brownback, Sam - (R - KS) Representative Scott Gunderson Senator Mary Lazich Senators Listing http://www.senate.gov/general/contact_information/ senators_cfm.cfm •Baldwin, Tammy, Wisconsin, 2nd •Kagen, Steve, Wisconsin, 8th •Kind, Ron, Wisconsin, 3rd •Moore, Gwen, Wisconsin, 4th •Obey, David R., Wisconsin, 7th •Petri, Thomas, Wisconsin, 6th •Ryan, Paul, Wisconsin, 1st •Sensenbrenner, F. James, Wisconsin, 5th Representatives Listing http://www.house.gov/house/MemberWWW.shtml Mailing Address: Milwaukee Journal Sentinel C/O Chuck Melvin P.O. Box 371 Milwaukee, WI 53201 According to the MJS website, Chuck is the Assistant Managing Editor for business | ||
| Augustus74 |
Are there any important "cliff notes" we need to include in letters? Buell sales Buell profit/loss Number of employees How the factory shutdown affects other factories/tires/paint/steel/plastic/etc. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Greg, "Not only would the employees of Buell retains their jobs..." delete the "s" Thanks for the sample letters guys. This is a great thread with a lot of useful info. Court, thanks for the "lecture". I'll pick up some nice stationary tomorrow! Letters to my local newspaper may not be very useful but they'll be sent as well. -Mike | ||
| Elvis |
Oooops. I just rechecked my math, and I'm not sure how I came up with 44% above. Buell grew 56% in the 5 year period from 2004 to 2008 and Harley grew 9%. | ||
| Gregtonn |
Thanks LB those are the kinds of things I miss when I rereads my own stuff. G  | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Hey Elvis, How many bike were produced in 2008? | ||
| Elvis |
13,119 | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Is the Buell revenue number $123,086,000 bike sales only also? | ||
| Davegess |
I am concerned that the revenue number for 2008 MAY include MV. When did HDI begin to lump the two together? We want to be correct on this; not provide ammunition to HD to fire back. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
$123,086,000 divided by 13,119 is $9382.50 per bike.... that can't be right. | ||
| Elvis |
Dave, No. That was just Buell. They started adding MV and Buell together in 2009. For the 2008 report, they clearly listed it as a Buell number. Wolf, I believe that is bikes only. I assume t-shirts etc. are "integrated" into the Harley numbers for those classifications. In any case, they're reported the same each year and any non-bike revenue for Buell has to be small, so I believe they are very valid numbers for analysis. I do remember seeing a number in the $135 million range for Buell for 2008 from at least one source, so that number may have included revenue for some side items. | ||
| Hughlysses |
Mark- remember, revenue does not equal profit. Revenue is just how much they collected for selling motorcycles. If you average the price per bike for all the Buell models sold, that looks about right. | ||
| Elvis |
Wolf, I think that's reasonable. Remember, it's going to be the price the dealer pays, not MSRP and there will be Blasts, XB9SX's etc., so that sounds about right to me. |
