| Author | Message | ||
     Teddagreek |
2010 MV Agusta F4: less power, more weight, same looks http://hellforleathermagazine.com/2009/11/2010-mv- agusta-f4-same-but-sli.html | ||
| Rocketman |
Enough. This topic is sounding like the ones I wanted to avoid. I can't be arsed with the HD thing. They'll live on. Hopefully MV will too. I wouldn't want a world where neither exist. I dig MV's. They're incredible. I force myself not to say I love my Buell. Instead I refer to it affectionately as a Beast or something similar. It's my love hate thing with it. And it's depressing if I think about it that Buell is no more. So I don't think about it. Or I try not to. I don't know if Buell will rise again. It would be a tragedy if they didn't. But it's true to say better to have lived and died than not lived at all. Anyway, I didn't come back to BadWeB to argue. I came back to do what Blake asked me to do if he allowed my return, and that is to create and enjoy the fun. However, I feel the need to remind myself I'm misleading myself into how I was before I left. With this in mind, please, let's have fun and talk bikes. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
Right. Embarrassing confession time. I'm guilty of not keeping up my Buell knowledge these past couple of years. I'm embarrassed to admit I don't know exactly what an 1125RR is, and I'm more than curious to see how far the 1125 got. I don't even know if they're road legal. Please, tell me about them. Rocket | ||
| Technomad |
Buell will live as long as anyone remembers. | ||
| M2nc |
Way to go Rocket, take the high road. There is nothing wrong with liking more than one bike manufacturer. What I hate most about the troubles with Buell and MV Agusta is that we are loosing our level of choice. I know the most efficient market form is an Oligopoly, but it does nothing for personal choice. I read the press release about why Harley bought MV Agusta, but if you believe their lies then and now for buying and selling MV Agusta, it does not make any sense to sell MV Agusta. Harley plans to focus on their core product. Point to sell MV Agusta. They plan to expand the business by expanding into foreign markets. The purchase of MV Agusta was to expand their dealership base in Europe. If this statement is true the last thing you would want to do now is sell off the dealership base. Point to keep MV Agusta. So far I can not justify their decision tree. It is a contradicting thought process. Not that I put it past the idiots running Harley, but if you give them any credit at all, you would expect them to at least hold onto MV Agusta long enough to establish their dealership base especially since no one is interested in buying MV Agusta in this market. Now if you follow the thought process that Harley was trying to expand their business by expanding their product line in Europe then it makes more sense to purchase it a year ago and now sell it. By making and selling non-cruisers under the the MV Agusta and Calviga name brands along side the Harley cruisers, they had a chance of at least the bait and switch. They tried to buy their way into acceptance in Europe through MV Agusta. When they realized MV Agusta bikes needed to be developed more than they wanted to spend in this economy, they bailed. Point, Harley did not realize that the MV Agusta was behind the curve in technology and needed to be seriously revamped to compete and sell. MV was more like Harley than even they realized at the time. Big name, flashy bikes, but plain out performed by less expensive more competent bikes. | ||
| Radioelasais |
Enjoy your buell, just ride it. That's it. I hope MV will survive, they made gorgeous bikes in the past and are still making masterpieces: I really do not understand all those unhappy comments from fans about the latest brutales and F4s. I really love the last brutale. Look at them. The XB, was it introduced in 2003?  and the brutale 750 in 2001 ... but the design by Massimo Tamburini was ages ahead of any other bike and unsurpassed even today.  And this is the Morini Corsaro (2005 I believe), nothing new or extraordinary, looks like the triumph ... maybe the MV or even the XB, but ... you should have a closer look if you can.  Aren't they lovely? Buell is no more. MV is struggling to survive and Morini is in worst conditions. Same goes for Moto Guzzi. If one day I'll need more power and grunt than the XB12 gives, and it gives more than enough for street riding, I am sure I will get myself a Corsaro or a Brutale. No need for asking. I really hope they will survive. Ok, this is the last brutale 1090RR ...  Gianluca | ||
| Radioelasais |
I would not subscribe your point of view. The last F4 and Brutale are quite up-to-date when compared to BMW, DUCATI etc... even if the MV fans seem to prefer older models (as usual). They are equipped with top notch technology in components and electronics and the style is gorgeous. I guess part of the money they spent in MV Agusta for the new models were taken out of the HD pockets ... that makes the reasons to sell the brand now even less clear (at least to me). Pricewise, the MVs are not the cheapest ... Gianluca (Message edited by radioelasais on November 09, 2009) | ||
| Spatten1 |
Comparing Harley technology to MV seems a bit silly. It's like comparing a riding lawnmower to a Ferrari. | ||
| Radioelasais |
money can "buy" people with know how and technology (ie a company like MV), most probably HD realized they were not able to manage HD+MV+Buell and make money out of them (and shirts and accessories and ...). porsche was about to file for "chapter 11" years ago. and ducati was just surviving. HD was supposed to own the financial strength to develop the Buell and MV not to own the technology. As a matter of facts HD was not strong enough. Simply put they need money which is not a great situation for anyone. | ||
| Rocketman |
Seems to me that lack of money is the simplest truth of all. A year ago Harley could not have foreseen needing money to continue further with MV. And now it seems a fact that Harley don't have the disposable money to be able to do just that. I too believe Gianluca has a point about Harleys recent influx of money rejuvenating the bikes for 2010. Harley must have burnt a bit of a hole in their pockets me thinks. I would not say either the F4 or Brutale is a dated design either. In motorcycle fashion they perhaps are a bit of an exception in that their styles have not dated them at all. If you look at any Japanese superbike from 1999, the F4 was with us as a 750 and the Brutale was first shown as a prototype, you'll see how dated those Japanese styles look today. It makes me think MV's are at a level of production that provide the right amount of flow to satisfy the markets demand. I don't know if this is true, but they would not continue making those bikes all that time if no one was going to buy them. Those Brutales do look tasty. As does the little 12S up there. Rocket | ||
| Gregtonn |
It's obvious why HD bought MV. Willie G. liked the headlight on the Brutale. He designed one just like it for the VRod.  G | ||
| Imonabuss |
I agree that H-D technology compared to MV is quite different, and in the eyes of a sportbike rider equivalent to Bronze Age. But there was an earlier point, which was savaged brutal(e?)y, that Buell technology was superior to MV, at least in the eyes and hands of a pro racer. I guess that's a useless point to make since Buell is gone. New Jersey AMA race was the only taste we'll ever get of what Buell had almost achieved. And that frustrates me far more about H-D than their technology. | ||
| Radioelasais |
Comments anyone? No offense for the (happy) owners but those Jap naked bikes are not my cup of tea and look out of date the very day they are presented to the public. Bung for the bucks, the kawa is the best sold motorcycle in italy I believe, but they really have a style I do not like. But the winner is always right (well, quite often I'd say). I fear HD will sooner or later fade into memory if the bikes they will keep on offering are electras and other megabucks-lean-only-on-sidestand bikes (which I will never ever consider to buy being on the opposite side of my present riding tastes and habits). I can't understand, they had the chance to widen their productline and now? Falling again in their niche ... and that is a niche, you see many HDs in USA but so few in EU. If I had money to spend on a pricey cruiser I would buy a BMW (that is what we guys in EU actually do). Gianluca   | ||
| Court |
>>>Harley must have burnt a bit of a hole in their pockets me thinks. I'd agree. I think two models burnt holes about 10 times bigger than budgeted. (Message edited by court on November 10, 2009) | ||
| Rocketman |
But there was an earlier point, which was savaged brutal(e?)y, that Buell technology was superior to MV, at least in the eyes and hands of a pro racer. Even if that were true, the point it makes ignores MV's uniqueness at the expense of Buell beating it in performance. You can't just say it in such simple all conquering terms as both marques are really not in the least comparable. MV build exotic performance motorcycles, incorporating their proud history and pedigree. Buell build practical performance motorcycles, incorporating their proud history of unique design. Neither marque draws conflict in my head as to which one I'd rather own, 1125 or F4. They are as motorcycles leagues apart and about 50% apart in price in the UK. So I fail to see the comparison unless there's some satisfaction to be taken by the cheaper Buell scalping the pricey MV in a dog fight. And maybe that's because the MV stands out as the pedigree racer, even if it's not true, and the Buell is the somewhat unknown upstart racer. But be honest, at this level of performance where it matters not a lot really, you'd be kidding yourself if you denied the MV in favour of the Buell just because the Buell is seemingly the underdog. Rocket | ||
| Rocketman |
I think two models burnt holes about 10 times bigger than budgeted. They only have two, lol Joking aside, isn't that the point about MV's which I made earlier. The style of both models is still selling and the look not outdated? All they have to do for now is keep enhancing the styling and upping the performance. Not sure how long this can go on, but 911, Mini and Beetle come to mind from the automotive world. Maybe MV have the same thing going on on two wheels? Rocket | ||
| Blake |
For Sean:        Photos by Mike (Puzzled), Court, EBear, Buell and others; please speak up and take credit. My memory is poor. Links to most all the pics from the New Jersey event. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"Comparing Harley technology to MV seems a bit silly. It's like comparing a riding lawnmower to a Ferrari." You have never been inside the PDC. It is, and Court can atest, a very very hi-tech facility. | ||
| Imonabuss |
911, Mini and Beetle actually make money, and have sold in really large numbers. That is a key difference, all the difference in the world as far as I can see. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
"He designed one just like it for the VRod." Actually, it was Frank Savage. | ||
| Spatten1 |
porsche was about to file for "chapter 11" years ago. and ducati was just surviving. I think the station wagon saved Porsche. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Blake? is that last pic witht he umbrella the full size or was it cropped?? | ||
| Court |
>>>You have never been inside the PDC. It is, and Court can attest, a very very hi-tech facility. That's an accurate statement. >>>I think the station wagon saved Porsche. The Panamera MADE Porsche's October in America.  | ||
| Court |
>>>is that last pic witht he umbrella the full size or was it cropped?? I think it's cropped. She lives in Trenton, NJ . . . want me to call and get a full size pic? The other gal lives in Absecon. | ||
| Spatten1 |
The Panamera MADE Porsche's October in America Just looked that up, never seen one, darn good looking sedan. By "station wagon" I was actually referring to the Cayenne, which really gave Porsche a big boost when it came out. I read an article in the WSJ that the company bet the farm on it, and it paid off. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Yes, I'd like to make a nice copy of that one and frame it for my office Court. thanks. | ||
| Court |
Shoot me an e-mail and remind me . . . I'll send you some "highlights". | ||
| Xl1200r |
By "station wagon" I was actually referring to the Cayenne, which really gave Porsche a big boost when it came out. I read an article in the WSJ that the company bet the farm on it, and it paid off. I drove one a few years back - not a turbo, mind you - and I came away completely underwhelmed. | ||
| Buellinachinashop |
Anybody have an idea of how long buell.com is going to run yet?? | ||
| Gohot |
It was mentioned in a previous post here that the upgrade in looks had'nt arrived yet. yea its something like Porsche, they look pretty much the same as always, but it seems to work for them. I always thought to improve on an existing design the better way to go, not new cloths being the only upgrade. MV and the earlier 916 Ducati had the 'Looks' and were (ARE) eye candy, so I think MV can safely go on for a fiew more years with the basic look that they presently have, I mean, come on....who really can use all of the claimed 190 horsepower? Drag racing? thats not what they were made for. It's not a bike for the Joe 6 pack, its exclusive,$25,000 plus on up to near 100K, its for rich people, Jay Leno's, Tom Cruse's, and the like. Sure if we won the lottery...... but real life....lol |
