| Author | Message | ||
     Cityxslicker |
you wanna know why I left health care? The redundant beauracracy, paperwork red tape, required patient data, the regulations, the tests, the licensing, the compliance, the fees, the threat of fines and the time out weighed the money and headache that I was getting back out. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
OK Right wingers......Give me a plan to fix healthcare Dude, are you illiterate first off, don't call me illiterate. I believe you are speaking of yourself. I asked the question one time. And who the hell is "we"? I don't see 10 points of anything...least of all from you. If you don't consider yourself a "right winger" do me a favor and don't respond. And if you do, try to add some valid points, not just name calling. As I thought, a select few here actually have a response that is valid. I don't agree, but they are valid. Thank you. Halffast. That's the problem. Is it not easier and cheaper to do "preventive maintenance" than to wait for a major problem, then fix it? Then there are, of course, the ones here that sound like a broken record repeating what they hear on the news or radio. Pay for my car insurance? Hmmm. Don't remember saying that. I don't remember saying pay for my health insurance. I do remember saying I'm for a public choice. That people would pay for. You all b1tch about "my tax dollars" Guess what. I didn't want my tax dollars going to pay for a bullshit war in Iraq. But I would rather have them help out my fellow Americans get affordable health care, which would, in turn, force private insurance to lower their costs to be competitive. Well enjoy your Labor Day weekend. Brought to you by us Union Workers. Oh shit!!!!!! There is another taboo word. Seriously, enjoy. We ALL deserve a break. And thanks to the people that responded with honest answers.  (Message edited by rocketsprink on September 05, 2009) | ||
| S1wmike |
Gather cost data nationally of health insurance premiums. I'm sure that is in a report somewhere. Figure the average cost by region. Now give the citizens the option to find their own private health care. Once their program has been selected and enrolled they can either submit all relevant information to the national health care office for the maximum allowable payment for premiums based on marital status and family size and have that payment made directly to the selected insurance company or choose to have the same value received as a tax credit for paying the full responsibility of the premiums without Govt. assistance. What this does is make health care available to all U.S. Citizens at a reasonable cost, give the people the choice they want for programs, doctors, etc. and if you choose not to enroll fine that is your choice. Those that have or need health care will have it and those who do not wish to have will not. Funding for this can be done by streamlining current programs in the Govt. and eliminating a lot of the garbage wasteful programs in existence and using that money to help fund this program. Not adding taxes but earmarking say 5% percent of all current federal taxes to go into the national health care budget. Now for the people who are paying their own premiums with the Tax break for cost of premiums it will go a good ways towards making the middle of April less painful and for some it may actually be a little extra bonus. | ||
| Odie |
Well enjoy your Labor Day weekend. Brought to you by us Union Workers. Oh shit!!!!!! In 2008, union members accounted for 12.4 percent of employed wage and salary workers, up from 12.1 percent a year earlier, the U.S. Department of Labor's Bureau of Labor Statistics reported today. The number of workers belonging to a union rose by 428,000 to 16.1 million. In 1983, the first year for which comparable union data are available, the union membership rate was 20.1 percent, and there were 17.7 million union workers. I don't see how 12.4 percent of the workforce can bring me my Labor Day weekend. If anything, the union workforce numbers have declined over the longterm. As they should..... | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I don't see how 12.4 percent of the workforce can bring me my Labor Day weekend. If anything, the union workforce numbers have declined over the longterm. As they should..... Ah yes. Another hater. Republican no doubt too. Read your History Odie as to how the Union Workers fight/fought for ALL workers rights. The hate and ignorance of some people never ceases to amaze me. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Go French, the #1 health system. I'm a British citizen & proud of the fact, even though my country has gone to hell in a handcart lately. My wife & son are French citizens. All my family on both sides of the channel are under strict instructions that should I have an accident or fall ill, they get me back here pronto. I have no wish to be hospitalized anywhere else in the world. I can tell you what the problem is with your own health system in one word. GREED. Too many snouts in the trough, & at the end of the day it's the customers (you) that have to pay. I don't expect that the French model will take off in the US, because it's too controlled for you. I can't see any answer that would satisfy you all. Those that want a system that puts the patient first rather than his money will be accused of stifling free enterprise & being anti libertarian. Those that feel a "pay at point of use" style of thing would be best, will be accused of being selfish & uncaring. Best of luck to you all & I hope you stay healthy forever. | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Say. How is your government health care working out. I see you're former Military. I have a Cousin that flies the big Chinook's and is now going to train as a test pilot. | ||
| Court |
FACT CHECK | ||
| Rocketsprink |
I can tell you what the problem is with your own health system in one word. GREED Amazing you can see it all the way form over there, but some here can't see it, even when it slaps them in the face. | ||
| P_squared |
I'll agree with GREED. Shame that it's not specific to just 1 party, isn't it? | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
That's the thing with Greed, he knows no boundaries, political or geographic. | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
"Well enjoy your Labor Day weekend. Brought to you by us Union Workers." I took that as meaning "unions built the motors in our bikes (minus the 1125), and most of us will ride this weekend, which we enjoy". I for one am riding to Iowa for a family reunion.  | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
An we KNOW that governments lack the ability to be "greedy". So far it's worked so well for: Social Security Medicare Medicaid All of those are running in the black. I'll take the "greed" in the billions in the private sector to the greed in the tens of trillions in the government sector. Odd that for such a staunch UNION guy that all unions are excluded from participation in this government medical nirvana you hope to create. Funny that. Why do you think that is? | ||
| Odie |
My TriCare Prime works out great. I have no issues at all with it. I spent 21 years of my life earning it. I don't see how pointing out a statistic makes me a hater?!?!? Or a Republican for that matter?!?! Or ignorant?!?! I got the info from the very same website that Court posted up (Bureau of Labor Statistics). Labor Day: How it Came About; What it Means Labor Day, the first Monday in September, is a creation of the labor movement and is dedicated to the social and economic achievements of American workers. It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and well-being of our country. (from the US Dept of Labor website). It constitutes a yearly national tribute to the contributions workers have made to the strength, prosperity, and well-being of our country. Workers, not unions. Workers...Even though a creation of the labor movement, it was about workers. No place for unions these days IMO. Back in the days of the Industrial Revolution yes, but not now. | ||
| Halffast |
Rocketsprink My point is that it would be much cheaper for me to pay for my regular check-up ($100-$150) every 6-12 months than to pay for health "insurance" ($300 per month employee contribution + $700 employer ballpark numbers) and just buy a major medical policy. If you buy the service plan you are paying lots of extra money to the insurance co. This is not truly insurance, it is like the maintenance agreement at an auto dealership. It is tons of profit to the insurance companies. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
No place for unions these days IMO. Back in the days of the Industrial Revolution yes, but not now. Good thing you're not running the show then, ain't it. I can say, without hesitation, that unions still serve a useful purpose in the construction industry. Hell, it's bad enough with the union construction trades in place. I can only imagine the horror without them. | ||
| Cudajohn |
Can we not talk about unions, it makes me want to throw up in my Cheerio's. I say this not as a person who has no history with unions. Dad was a Teamster and Mom was UAW. I was a little Teamster guy growing up, going to meetings and being told that the country wouldn't run without them. The way I see it now, after education, is that they're irrelivent and have created a culture of psuedo-importance. If you look at the UAW for one, skilled labor they say? Nobody else could do the job? Any retard can use an airtool on a line. This is where it ties into healthcare. My Dad, Teamster, remember? He is being screwed by them right now. He got hurt on the job and went to the company doctor. He says return to work. He went to get a SECOND OPINION (not available under Gov. care) and found out he needs reconstructive surgery. He goes to his steward for help, Union says he should listen to the company doctor. Why would they do this? The answer already came from Grumpy. The Unions have ceased to be for the worker. The Unions are now big profit organizations, more profit you get the more you want. The UAW actually owns alot of GM now, so why do GM employees need to pay their protection money to the UAW if the UAW is now......management??? Let's look at another example of unions being irrelevant and it also envolves healthcare. In a company like Whole Foods, who treat their employees better than unionized grocers. The unions have jumped all over WF for the remarks of the CEO against ObamaCare. I am pretty sure the WF employees would much rather prefer WF medical than ObamaCare. Unionizing would drive down profit margins like they did at the Big3. Product and service would go in te toilet and the quality of the medical would go in the crapper. So why do the unions hate WF and want the employees to unionize if WF treats their employees how unions think companies should treat workers, fairly??? The answer is, the grocers union, like any, only gets power through numbers. Just like a gang of common street thugs, one doesn't want to mess with you but if they get 2,3, or 4 they will jump your ass. Therefore unions are filled with bafoons and bullies. (Message edited by Cudajohn on September 05, 2009) | ||
| Odie |
I can only imagine the horror without them. Yea, me too. People would actually have to work instead of just hitting the clock..... | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Can we not talk about unions, it makes me want to throw up in my Cheerio's. Do you not want to talk about unions before or after you post five paragraphs outlining your thoughts on unions....too funny !!! | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Yea, me too. People would actually have to work instead of just hitting the clock..... I can't speak for other unions in other industries but I can speak for the IBEW in my local area. No one is "hitting the clock", as you say or at least, no more or no less than in any other business. I've seen deadbeats in non-union shops and I've seen losers in white collar office settings. Sloth and laziness are universal. They aren't confined to unions nor is it tolerated in our shop. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
Unionizing would drive down profit margins like they did at the Big3 Funny how unions are blamed for the problems at Chrysler and GM yet Ford, which is also unionized, didn't ask for nor receive a bailout and is doing great !!! Furthermore, Toyota manufactures the Tacoma, in the U.S. , in a unionized plant !! | ||
| Cudajohn |
BTW Odie, I have Tri-care also. We have a hell of a time trying to see the doctor we want to see. For me, I'm screwed, I have to be seen at my MTF every time, no options. I think I need to see a chiropractor? No, says my PCM. Drink more water and take these Motrin. If they have students or young Corpsemen who need practice sticking veins they practice on you. You can refuse in a free market system.We have finally figured how to work the system for my wife and daughter. The only good thing with the Government (Tri-Care) Healthcare is that I can get tests and procedures right away and records are electronic. Now, lets look at this applied to the whole country. The system would be overloaded. With millions of people needing CT scans or procedures there will be a loooong line developed. Service goes waaay down. Electronic records would do alot for level of care in the civilian sector but why don't they use them? Healthcare is one of the most heavily regulated industries in America and providers are penalized for using electronic records for some idiotic reason. Does anyone else realize that it is the most heavily regulated industries that are filing, failed, or have been taken over by the government? Auto? Heavily regulated and failed. Banking? IMO, the only one that needs oversight but not a guiding had. Healthcare? Failing. Mail? Fail. Government screws up EVERYTHING they touch. When the post office screws up you lose a package. When you are at the DMV and thinking you should have brought a sack lunch you lose time. When a Government run Healthcare screws up it could mean YOU DIE. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
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| P_squared |
In regards to Unions & union labor, meh. I've had good experiences & bad experiences with different unions & people over the years. My dad & best friend are union members (IAM). I was a CWA member. I work with IBEW & CWA members on a daily basis. Sometimes the union(s) get it right, sometimes they don't. Sometimes I like working with them, sometimes I don't. Sometimes they like me, sometimes they don't. I do have problems with a $10B payout to the UAW in the current bill though. $10B to UAW Haven't the rest of us paid them enough already? | ||
| P_squared |
Back to the OP of this thread. Rocket, you asked what alternatives the Republicans have offered. I pointed out the specific examples in the Senate & House. S. 1099 in the Senate & H.R. 3400 in the House. Leaving the name calling & talking points aside for a moment, you have a good point to think that we all need more than just opposition, we need alternatives presented. The Republicans have, contrary to the non-attention given. As for the "greed" issue, every political party is culpable. Thinking it's confined to a particular industry is short sighted, and/or uninformed. Shame we can't have a civilized discussion, out in the open, with all concerned parties, isn't it? I seem to recall that promise being made. It hasn't been delivered. You wonder why folks might become upset? It's usually a smart idea to at least attempt to review both/all sides of an issue before going off on a partisan talking point. Just my opinion & YMMV. | ||
| Odie |
TriCare is not perfect. There are a ton of things that could be improved. We, as a family, have had pretty good luck with it so far. Yes, there are times when they say this or that isn't covered but we just pay for it off post and see who we want to see. For what I pay a year I cannot complain one bit. I know a lot of friends/family that pay more a month than I pay for a whole year of coverage. Overall, it works out great for us. I don't agree that the unions are to blame (entirely) for the issues at The Big 3 or any other industry that I am aware of. The "Company" has just as much blame. The workers have a lot of the blame to accept also. I just find it hard to see how a business, regardless of the industry, is supposed to be viable when the "Company" find the Union the enemy; the Union finds the Company the enemy; and the worker is left in the middle, befriending the Company when convenient and then befriending the union when convenient. The Bermuda Triangle of business plans.... (Message edited by odie on September 05, 2009) | ||
| Reindog |
I don't see 10 points of anything...least of all from you. Maybe you are not illiterate but you certainly can't read. I'll repeat them for you (ok theres only nine) which you seem to conveniently ignore. * Tort reform. * Portability of insurance. * Insurance competition across state lines. * Empower RNs for first line health care. * Digitization and standardization of health care records. * Drop in health centers in your local shopping mall. * Denial of ALL health care to illegal immigrants. * Government assistance to the approximately 5-10 million people who need health care.(NOT the incorrect 47 million politicized number) * Expansion of Health care spending accounts. These ideas go a LONG way to solving health care reform. The Socialist route is a dead end. If you don't consider yourself a "right winger" do me a favor and don't respond. Typical Liberal. You don't like what people say so you tell them to shut up. Why don't you apply the same censorship to most of the other posters on this thread? Most people here are NOT right wingers. This is the mark of someone losing the argument. I will respond anytime I choose. | ||
| Crusty |
Who gives a shit? Democracy is a fiction. We are ruled by a congress who is elected for life, headed by a president whose term is limited to eight years. We need to throw all the bastards out and start fresh. But it will never happen. Welcome to the Land of the Fee and the Home of the Slave. Most of the "Facts and Statistics" about healthcare are being manipulated by some very slick people funded by an Insurance industry who doesn't want to see any change whatsoever.(Kinda like the way the Jap Manufacturers are screwing with DMG in U.S. racing). It's Spin Doctoring at its finest. The USA is the only civilized country without a decent health plan. we should be ashamed. Instead, we revel in the fact that the average American Citizen is getting screwed. But the executives in the health care industry are still getting enormous bonuses. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Guess what. I didn't want my tax dollars going to pay for a bullshit war in Iraq. Sprink are you talking about the same Iraq as this clip talks about? lol | ||
| Cudajohn |
I can vouch for Nancy Pelosi on this. I heard her say she was lied to by the CIA. Lies, all the time. (Message edited by Cudajohn on September 05, 2009) |
