| Author | Message | ||
     Rocketsprink |
In all seriousness, WHAT is the Republicans ideas to control the ever rising costs of health care? I hear all the b!tching, but no answers. Do you think health care is fine as is? Do you believe that the ever increasing premiums and diminishing coverage is OK? Do you believe it's OK for an insurance company to pay their C.E.O millions of dollars a year and hand out 5 Billion dollars to share holders? You realize that in order to do that, they need to raise your costs and deny payments to providers, thus raising costs again? Pretty good scam. Please don't tell me you think it good as is and should be left alone! You don't want the Government in health care? What about medicare? What about all the Veterans that get care through the Government? If the right wing is supposed to be the "Christian" party, where the hell is the compassion? Your party tells people "grow up and go buy insurance!"? That's your answer? WWJD? Not act like the party that claims to be adherent to Him! BTW, no way in hell am I for FREE health care, but I AM for affordable alternatives, which YOU WILL NEVER GET WITH PRIVATE INSURANCE THAT HAS TO ANSWER TO SHARE HOLDERS! (Message edited by rocketsprink on September 04, 2009) | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Eliminate health insurance all together and make people pay cash. People are good at shopping and finding the best price. Put a cap on medical malpractice lawsuits. People are not machines and make mistakes. Those are a few ideas Ive heard. I dont have any myself and I dont pretend to know alot about healthcare. I do know the government sucks at alot of its big programs hence my opposition to the bill. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
BTW, there is no such thing as free health care. My healthcare is covered by my employer but the employer takes this into account in regards to my wage. | ||
| Badlionsfan |
HSA is the best way to make it affordable. Lower premium, higher deductable and save money tax free to pay for medical stuff up to the deductable. | ||
| Reindog |
Please tell me that you're kidding. You're kidding, right? I believe this has been gone over before. To name a few: * Tort reform. * Portability of insurance. * Insurance competition across state lines. * Empower RNs for first line health care. * Digitization and standardization of health care records. * Drop in health centers in your local shopping mall. * Denial of ALL health care to illegal immigrants. * Government assistance to the approximately 5-10 million people who need health care.(NOT the incorrect 47 million politicized number) * Expansion of Health care spending accounts. Thats just for starters. The Government Seizure of Health Care Bills is NOT the way to go. It empowers demagogues and will lead to rationing of health care. Health Care needs reform. The majority of people support that. The Left and the Lobbyists have squandered an opportunity to make realistic, sustainable change but instead opted to go the Socialist route. That is why Independents and Conservatives are up in arms. | ||
| Ferris_von_bueller |
You know, it's funny. People will bitch about the cost of insurance yet they will spend money on big screen TV's and big money on a car payment, etc. Yet, when it comes to their health and they are asked to pay anywhere from $200-1000 a month for insurance, they whine. Who do you think is going to pay for universal health care? Is the government, with it's glowing record of efficiency, going to be a better and cheaper provider of health care? Rich people come from all over the world to the U.S. to receive medical care for treatment. Why is that? Could it be their socialized medical care aint worth a damn outside of treating colds and skinned knees. For your reading pleasure I offer the following: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/health/healthnews/6127514/Sentenced-to-death-on-the-NHS.html (Message edited by Ferris_von_bueller on September 04, 2009) | ||
| Liquorwhere |
If the right wing is supposed to be the "Christian" party, where the hell is the compassion? Your party tells people "grow up and go buy insurance!"? That's your answer? WWJD? Not act like the party that claims to be adherent to Him! First to make that statement to conservatives is ignorant, I am very conservative and an atheist, if you mean Republicans, then maybe you will find more of a God fearing crowd there, good for them, free country and all. So WWJD means NOTHING to me. Compassion comes from and is given to your loved ones that are close to you, not strangers, if you want me to be compassionate for others you are barking up the wrong tree. Life is pain and suffering, anyone telling you different is selling something to you, occasional bliss is just that occasional. Health care is NOT a right. If you want better health care for yourself, find better insurance. Work for what you want, be relentless in your pursuit of your happiness, or as much as can be achieved, and be content with your contribution to life. To ask others to wipe your behind because you are either too lazy or too weak to take care of your yourself, I refer you to Charles Darwin. That is my answer to your statements above, now for your other question. To revamp the system, first you have to start with Tort reform. You must eliminate Medicare and Medicaid completely, if you take any price supports out of the system that government health care provide, then COMPETITION will take hold. Period, we are capitalists, not socialists, if you want that kind of government there are many countries out there for you to GO to, no one will miss a few million bolting to Canada or Europe to be deadbeats there. So long and good luck. It's a cold world blood, you are either the predator or prey...that is just the way it is. | ||
| Geforce |
"It's a cold world blood, you are either the predator or prey...that is just the way it is." Agreed... one of my life quotes... "A species that is weak is one that is doomed to extinction." As for the topic question... I don't think anyone right now has a good answer to this issue. We need some very wise people to sit down and take a look at fixing the current problems...not adding new ones. | ||
| Baybueller |
Liquorwhere Just posted my thoughts on this subject. Well done. | ||
| S1eric |
Well Sprink Thats a good question. But first lets look at how well Medicare & Medicaid is being run. You don`t have to look hard to see they are running a nice deficit. And the system is full of fraud. I know this first hand. See my father was forced on to the government run health care when he retired. Even though he retired with full benefits. Complete health care with Prudential. He told the government he didn`t want their health care, But you know what it didn`t matter. HMMMMM wonder why they are running a deficit. But hey thats government logic for ya. 3 years ago at the age of 70 the Docs found cancer. He is doing fine today thanks to great American health care. But during those 3 years we found that some procedures were paid 2 or even 3 times. And you think the Government would want to look into this kind of stuff pretty quick. But NOOOO. They really didn`t want to hear it. Oh sure they are "looking into it" And said they would let us know If they needed our records probably the only correct ones. But we got the total red tape run around trying to let them know about the over billing. To my knowledge they are still "looking into it" This is just one case one person. Just imagine all of the fraud being committed. But why force someone who has their own health care on to the government system. That health care could have went to another American. Lets see I here all of the talk about death panels. Well it's already happening folks. Always has been, private or Government health care. Medicare denied pops a critical test that found a small spot on his liver. Really hard to detect. Well prudential stepped up to the plate and said do it. Do it now. (THANKS PRUDENTIAL) Without that test things would be a lot worse today. The Docs are amazed at the amount of life left in the man. He just will not sit still. Been out mowing his yard with a push mower this summer. One more tid bit. Until all of this happend the mans medical chart was 2 pages. Yep 2 pages. Right before the surgery the Doc comes over to me and ask " is this really his whole medical chart" Yep the man never had any issues. But without supplemental insurance he might not be here today. I will agree something needs to be done. Lets Start with. Getting Medicare & Medicaid under control and in the black. Getting Social Security under control and into the black. If they just started with that I would have a lot more confidence in them. But you know what AINT GONNA HAPPEN. EVER. One more point. WE ARE BROKE !!!!!!!!!!! Yep the government is BROKE ! Hate to break it to you but someone has to. And its no wonder look at how well all of those social programs are run. Forcing people who have private health care onto some government program. Yep those politicians really know what they are doing. Look I don`t have the answers. But if they can`t run what we have now, why should I have any confidence in another government run program. How long Can we run these deficits by the Government. Those printing presses are running at full speed now and they can`t keep up. Eventually this house of cards will fall. Your right something needs to be done. We need to get our house in order first, Then move forward. S1Eric | ||
| Spike |
What exactly is compassionate about forcefully stealing money from the general population? Can you point us to the place where Jesus told us to tax the wealthy to provide for our own needs? | ||
| Cityxslicker |
Lets start with fiscal responsibility. Get rid of Medicare, Medicaid, Social Security, Dept of Social Health Services agencies, and the VA claims units (not the services, the claims units. Next get rid of the IRS go to a flat tax of say 22% (cuz its less than theyre raping me now) Go to digital money and eleminate the largest function of the Treasury. (just look at all the money we are saving the government so far, and keeping them out of my wallet to boot) So you want national health care. Suck it up and shut up. National id card for citizens only (or imbed chip cuz yeah its cheaper) No chip/card; no coverage. Not a citizen, no coverage. Theres a monthly boat waiting. (Look at the dent you just put in immigration, I think their staff could be reduced too) Kill the 1% for arts program, if your art cant get sold on its own merits, tough tookus. Go fix the rest of the government...... Now for health care. The government doesnt belong in it. There is already portability between plans, has been for the last 15 years. There is already the mandated exclusion for pre existing conditions, law has been on the books in Wash state for 10 years. Doctors/Nurses/Hospitals/Pharmaceuticals are business entities, they are time vs money vs service vs pay out. It should be no different than getting your car fixed. Cant afford to get your car fixed? why should your neighbor bail you out through his pay roll deductions; its your responsibility. ITS YOUR CAR! Any government involvement, should be for a catestrophic loss. Like flood insurance for people that buy property on the water. Issues like cancer, end stage renal, Iv therapy, the stuff that is big and makes people go bankrupt becuase the risk is too huge; theres your answer. Rates should be based accordingly on your current health and risk assessment (cuz lets face it, Sally Sue 455 lbs is a total different risk than Joe Smeckle at 155) Everybody else, you see the doctor, you pay your money. I dont need another social program pilfering away the check that I get. OH and there needs to be a clear OPT-OUT, as in, I dont want your program, I dont want you taking money from me, I wont use government care, I am reponsible enough to plan and pay for myself. They are going to ram rod big goverment program down Americas throat, and I am going to make a mint; bring it on. Glad my licenses in Health/Disability/Longterm/Short Term/ Life and Annuities are all current. Into the lions den for ten years and then the golden parachute. | ||
| Mizzou_buell |
____________quote___________________________ Rich people come from all over the world to the U.S. to receive medical care for treatment. Why is that? Could it be their socialized medical care aint worth a damn outside of treating colds and skinned knees. __________________________________________ Are you sure about that? The World Health Organization ranks our healthcare system as number 37 in the world. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthranks.html Ranked 14th in preventable deaths. http://www.allcountries.org/ranks/preventable_deat hs_country_ranks_1997-1998_2002-2003_2008.html 24th in life expectancy. http://www.photius.com/rankings/healthy_life_table 2.html 72nd in health performance rank. http://www.photius.com/rankings/world_health_perfo rmance_ranks.html 29 in infant mortality rates in 2004. http://www.cdc.gov/media/pressrel/2008/r081015.htm}} | ||
| Aesquire |
Don't have a clue what the "republicans" have for an alternative to the socialized medicine bill up now. It's not something that a mostly Dem media bothers to report. But I do have a few ideas that might help. In no particular order... Portability. You like Prudential? keep it. Since your employer is only going to pay you what the market will offer, and what the employer pays in health insurance comes right out of your salary, ( as do the taxes the "company" pays, etc. ) you will get paid what they pay you. It's part of your compensation. Most people don't pay attention to the fine print. You get a new job, you just tell the H.R. dept. and they check the box for who gets the premiums. I'm assuming you are going to pay in installments out of your paycheck, so you don't spend the money on toys & beer instead, just like you pay your taxes. ( if you paid your taxes by check each year, you would really bitch. Government would go broke, and there would be dead politicians. Withholding is like novacaine for the wallet. ) Next. State lines shouldn't matter. If ABC insurance is what you like, what difference does it make what state you live in? The difference now is some states REQUIRE all insurance to cover a lobbyist's wish list of services. Acupuncture, aromatherapy, breast implants.... then make it illegal to buy insurance out of state so they can get more in taxes.... out of you actually, but they hide it by taxing the insurance company, that passes it on to you... more novacaine. next. Preexisting conditions don't matter. Can't be considered. You can't be canceled or rejected for having cancer, or being fat, or enjoying tobacco or other drugs or sex practices. This will cut into profits. It WILL make health insurance more expensive. next. Tort reform. A huge part of medical costs go to lawyers. A bad doctor should get sued. Lose his job. the current setup just makes lawyers rich, and they bribe the politicians to keep it so. ( Dems hate tort reform, with reason. It cuts down on bribes. ) Perhaps a change to Napoleonic law in suits would be the way to go. I still want the wronged to get justice, but the current setup is disproportional. next. Change the emphasis of the bureaucracy from denying claims to servicing the client & seeking cheats. This will be hard, since the sheer # of useless Bureaucrats involved makes revolt likely. You may have to slaughter a few million to get this one through. next. consolidate medicare & medicaid, and all other federal & state health TAX paid care systems into 1 system. Same objection as above, may have to slaughter millions of govt. workers. Call it Medifed, and it's what takes care of the unemployed, the SSI folk, and the kids who don't want medical insurance, but need it anyway. basic insurance, for medical needs, not fancy stuff. If you MUST make a separate system for "seniors" and their increased needs, you duplicate the paperwork and defeat the purpose of consolidation which is to make it affordable. If it's not affordable it won't work, no matter what the govt. tells you. next. ( for now. ) Fix the fraking V.A. system. It's supposed to be the best, and it should be. Services best done by regular doctors should be handled by that mythical Medifed, and at no charge to a vet. Ever. it's part of the compensation. last. co-pay for everything. You can't afford it? we'll take it out of your taxes. How much? a separate argument. Several of the above ideas won't appeal to Rep's or Dems. They are probably the best ones. Think we could get the above on, say, 10 pages? It's really obvious to me that a 1000+ page bill that the politicians won;t read is BAD. Like the idiots voted for the patriot act without reading it. | ||
| Cityxslicker |
As with any chart, ranking or statistic, look who funded the study and what axe they are attempting to grind. The WHO's own definition of that ranking is unit of health care based of government expenditure for said unit of healthcare. Really? I see no financial currency equivelant or date for finances for say dollar vs Franc (cuz apparently the French system is the leader) Next it only focuses on payment versus treatment completion and a patient 'satisfaction' index (with no link to what survey tool they used to gauge that) It doesnt take into account wait times to see doctors, denial of coverage to see doctors, patients that are well and dont see doctors but are still paying a monthly health care premium.... Its a scewed report with an axe to grind. Does anybody teach stats anymore ? A country with 30,000 people, with a size of 60 square kilometers and 19% tax rate is their number 3? somebody please read this shiate critically. | ||
| Madduck |
The "official" Republican health plan is called the Coburn Health bill. To the best of my knowledge no Democratic committee will even allow its mention let alone debate its merits. Google searching will get you to the full boat, basically it involves redoing the whole health payment system to a patient centered concept. Essentialy the high co-pay out of every persons pocket so that they become aware of what everything they want costs as they are paying for the first few thousand out of an account that is their money. The insurance is a catastrophic plan for when you reach co-pay. There is tort reform and a whole bunch of other good ideas, none of which really require a lot more government oversight/control. Which is the reason Democrats in Washington hate it so. Their plan is not about caring for anyone but their friends and getting the rest of us even more dependent on federal government. When you have to transfer money from the old/medicare patients to cover the illegal aliens and winos, your "plan" is a catastrophe. | ||
| Blake |
Rocco, God bless you. You are passionate and looking for answers. I wish more folks were as well. All of what Tom (Reindog) posted. Plus:
To clarify on the tort reform that Tom mentioned: We MUST have good laws in every state requiring that if a medical malpractice plaintiff loses his/her case, he/she IMMEDIATELY must pay ALL legal fees of the defendant! If they cannot pay, then off to the poor house with them. That will do away with a LOT of lawsuit abuse right off the top. One page legislation, not 1,000. Simple stuff. I'd also ask that you please reconsider your take on the insurance companies being responsible for driving up the cost of health care. If there is a monopoly, that might be the case. But how, when there are a number of insurers who are competing for my money, do you find that they are driving up the costs of health care? Save oil (don't get me started on that), the prices of all other services, goods, and commodities on the free market are kept in check by fierce competition. Today's sport bike market is the perfect example. The car market is another. Imitate nature, survival of the fittest. Interfere with that and you'll eventually have big problems. Just look at all the big gov social programs. They are all failures. They have no competition pushing them to excel. So why would they? They don't. They do the opposite. They become fat, bloated government bureaucracies rife with fraud and inevitably yet another partisan point of debate. Yes? Competition works. Monopolies suck. Government run monopolies in the social arena are unmitigated disasters. We need more competition. We do need reform in the way of law that limits how much an insurer may raise a premium, and they must not be allowed to drop a customer if the customer doesn't wish to be dropped. I'm 46. I pay $120/mo for my health insurance. It is good for up to $5M lifetime. It doesn't pay a dime until I spend the first $5K. Then it pays 100%. I don't need protection against a $5K fee. I need protection against the $500,000 fee. That my not be chump change; it sure isn't for me, but, my policy allows a Health Savings Account (HSA). I can put up to $3K/year, possibly going up to $5K/yr, tax deferred, into a special health savings account at my bank. If I've not met my $5K deductable, I can use my HSA to pay for medical fees, including those that my insurance may not pay, like dental and eye and such. I pay more for my cell service, and my TV/internet than I do for my health insurance. So what did my HSA do besides save me a around $1,000 in fed income tax? That HSA just put me back in direct communication with my doctor(s) concerning fees and their negotiation. So I shop around for the best deal. It works! If every health insurance policy was set up similar to that, I think we'd see a renewed competition for business in the health services sector. Prices would drop. We also need some kind of consumer protection laws that absolutely prohibit pharmaceutical companies from charging Americans any more for medications than they do people in Canada or Europe. It is an outrage that we are subsidizing the health care of other nations. Just a simple one page law prohibiting infated pricing here versus Canada and Europe would compel the pharma companies to negotiate much more toughly with those governments knowing full well that they will be held to the same prices in America. As it is now, the American people are subsidizing Canadian and European health care. It isn't right. It is very WRONG! You've heard that their average health care costs are about half of ours, yes? Well if they pay half for the medication, that is a big part of this. If they have to wait twice as long for surgery, that is another. Our cancer and heart disease survival rates are the best in the world. Do we want to sacrifice that? (Message edited by blake on September 04, 2009) | ||
| P_squared |
In all seriousness, WHAT is the Republicans ideas to control the ever rising costs of health care? To specifically answer Rocket's question: S. 1099 in the Senate & H.R. 3400 in the House. Go read them for yourself. | ||
| Blake |
See if you have had the same experience that I have. It seems like to me that if you have a health issue, the first damn thing the medical profession asks is "what is your insurance"? Am I right? The auto-body shop doesn't ask that. If I need my vehicle repaired, I myself go out and get estimates on the repair, I turn the claim in to my insurance. I pay the shop. With health insurance, I, the customer, am totally divorced from the service provider, kept out of the loop when it comes to payment for services. I feel a little like I've been sent out of the room while the doctor and the insurance people talk over what the fees will be. It's aggravating. So then, what do I care if the doctor is overcharging or if I might find or negotiate a better deal? I don't, except maybe on principle. But most people don't care a wit as long as insurance is paying, yes? I think that is a huge problem. It's like the all you can eat buffet. If you had to pay per serving, you might not get the extra helping of mashed potatoes and corn bread. This would be the case with any gov sponsored plan as well. How to reconnect/remarry the health care consumer to his/her provider when it comes to payment? Do it like the auto insurers do. Unless we can reconnect/marry the consumer to his/her own health care service, we'll not reduce costs as much as we could otherwise. The way to put the consumer back into the loop is to establish HSA's as a matter of course, just like our retirement accounts (401K's and IRA's). We need to transition social security to the same type system. But that's another discussion. | ||
| Halffast |
What we call "health insurance" now is not insurance,it's like a maintenance agreement. We want the insurance to cover every dr. office visit, every pill, every bandaid. This is why it costs so much. Insurance is supposed to cover accidents and serious illness not your regular annual check-up. That check-up is like maintenance on your car, insurance should not cover it. | ||
| Moxnix |
Why doesn't the guv'mint pay my house insurance, my car insurance, my life insurance, my disability insurance. Waaaaah! | ||
| Wheelybueller |
Communism: The most painful path to go from Capitalism, to Capitalism.  | ||
| Cudajohn |
Where in the Constitution does it say that the Gov. provides charity (wellfare), runs business, and provides medical. The Founders wrote the document to LIMIT powers of the Government not give it power. Our POTUS has stated that the Constitution is a flawed document. Anyone who agrees, please slap yourself. (Message edited by Cudajohn on September 04, 2009) | ||
| Just_ziptab |
Quote: Why doesn't the guv'mint pay my house insurance, my car insurance, my life insurance, my disability insurance. Waaaaah!
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| Cyclonedon |
OK Right wingers......Give me a plan to fix healthcare tax breaks for the wealthy, then they can do their trickle down effect! The Republicans wrote the book on that, that seems to be the only thing they know! | ||
| Reepicheep |
Suprise! Having a disproportionate lack of skill, lack of hard work, lack of discipline, or all of the above has been dangerous since the dawn of time. Whoulda thunk!?!? You can try and fix this because its wrong, and you can try and compress a liquid through force of will. If you think you can solve it, start with betting your own personal fortune. Don't double down on mine... I can make my own decisions. | ||
| Reindog |
OK Right wingers......Give me a plan to fix healthcare Dude, are you illiterate? We just gave you tens of points of how to fix the system? BTW, nice try calling us Right wingers. Most of us, including me, is right of center. I don't care if you jab heroin in your eyeballs. That is your business. The government that governs least, governs best. | ||
| Ft_bstrd |
Healthcare isn't "broken". It requires no fix. Now the malpractice industry could use some "fixing". The FDA could use some fixing as well. There are only about 15M citizens who are chronically uninsured and not covered by a governmental program. That's 5% of the population. Not need to "fix" a system where 80% of the utilizers are "satisfied" with there care. We spend 17% of our GDP on healthcare. What else are we going to spend it on? That 17% hires 10% of our workers. It drives the largest creation of medical technology and pharmaceutical advancement in the world. It provides sustenance to the medical malpractice industry. The medical industry pays one of the highest income taxes, proportionally, of any industry. The goal of the current administration is NOT to actually "fix" healthcare but rather to seize the largest single industry in the US in order to continue the march toward cementing control of the population in an effort to insure future power. Consider this, if the Government takes over the healthcare industry, WHO will be in control of that industry in the future. The Republicans will be in power at some point in time in the future. Those of you who are the greatest proponents of Democratic control of our healthcare would scream bloody murder if Republicans were given control without any regulation. Do you really want to establish a system that WILL be in the control of the Republican party at some point in time in the future? | ||
| Blake |
We shouldn't ignore that some of the rising costs of health care are due to amazing new treatments, medications, and technology. None of that comes for free. The same is true for vehicles. In the late '70s a very nice luxury Oldmobile cost about $8K, 350 V8, full electric everything, air conditioning, loaded. Compare that to an equivalent class car now. Besides inflation, all the new added features, more durable parts, and improved safety and anti-pollution measures have added a lot of cost to the price of a new car. Really, $120/mo is incredibly reasonable to me. You going off on CEO pay and all is understandable, but it doesn't amount to a hill of beans when it comes to our costs, virtually no impact. You seem to imagine that the insurance companies are raking in the profits. They aren't. Their profit margin is pretty dismal from a business perspective. I think it runs somewhere around 4% on average. My insurance company, Blue Cross Blue Shield of Texas is a Coop. Not sure what exactly that means yet, but I don't think it earns much profit. | ||
| Blake |
Rocco, "but I AM for affordable alternatives, which YOU WILL NEVER GET WITH PRIVATE INSURANCE THAT HAS TO ANSWER TO SHARE HOLDERS! " My $120/mo isn't affordable? |
