| Author | Message | ||
     Thansesxb9rs |
Does Ducati employ and support your fellow Americans? | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
I wouldn't say that is defeatist, I would say that is accepting the truth of a global economy. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
Hey Ducxl: Though I agree with supporting companies that support Americans, what category would you put Toyota into? They are definitely a japanese company, however... In Georgetown, KY they employ over 7000 Americans at the plant A HUGE number of parts for the camry, solara, and avalon are made by Americans. I'd estimate an additional 5-8000 people are employed as vendors/support/contractors/facilities management/transportation. That is just in central Kentucky. Then you throw in Indiana, West Virginia, Texas, California and a few other American plants. Global economies HAVE been known to work both ways. | ||
| Blake |
When a company goes out of business because it loses massive market share because it's product is significantly more expensive than that of the competition, who's jobs are we saving? If Nestles or Mars is making comparable product and doing so for significantly lower cost, thus making more money, we should force Hershey to suck it up and cut salaries in order to keep jobs here? Crusty, I pretty much agree. We do have laws to protect against the overzealous greed, monopolization of markets, and exploitation of workers do we not? China works? We'll see what happens when wages there rise and they allow their currency value to fluctuate relative to the dollar. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
Blake, The accord reached with Condolezza Rice in Dec effectively put a stop to the Chinese devaluating their currency so it will rise and fall with the Euro and the Dollar...it will cost more money to outsource there now, but it is still cheaper than the US. Mexico is the next great outsource area....IMHO | ||
| Uwgriz |
That will help, but they also have a seemingly endless supply of labor that will work for very cheap, happy to have a job(byproduct of communism - again, not working for the average joe). As long as they have that they will have a huge advantage which will keep business headed that direction. Liquid - they're not the next great outsource area, they're the current one. Up next - Vietnam is my guess (another communist country - not a coincidence IMHO). | ||
| Rainman |
Something ain't right. It's all backward. There appears to be little or no "long-term" planning or approach to business, merely short-term profit efforts to keep stocks up and dividends high. Look to my industry to see that. Knight Ridder newspapers averaged 15 to 22 percent profit margin every year but they were sold off by the executive board because the members believed they could maximize their earnings now, rather than hang onto to the properties and reinvest for the future. Liquorwhere may have it right. The surest way to start a small business to work for a large one and wait for the layoffs. | ||
| Uwgriz |
Rainman, I have to disagree about the short term part. The reality is that if outsourcing isn't looked at, many businesses will cease to exist in the short term, not just lose profitability (which is basically the same thing in this day and age). The long term planning is that many companies are recognizing this and working with foreign suppliers to develop them so that they're not buying the proverbial "cheap Chinese crap" but rather "low cost, high quality, Chinese components." | ||
| Adrenaline_junkie |
I've been watching this for a couple of decades now. One of the big problems is that corporate level executives (I'm talking about division or branch managers, not CEOs) change employers every three to five years. They come in, fire everyone that knows anything and suspend all maintenance work. The department coast along for a few years making huge profits until all of the equipment is worn out and the people who know how to fix it have moved on. Then the department falls apart. Does the executive who made the changes get in trouble? No. They took a new job with a new company. It was easy to do because there dept. had made huge profits while they were letting it fall apart and those huge profits look good on a resume. Nobody at that level looks long term at the business because they don't intend to be there long term. The devastated dept/division they were running is written off as a total loss and a new facility is built in _______(fill in the blank, China, Korea, Mexico, Indonesia, etc.). There is a name for this, but I can't remember what it is, I just know that it is destroying this countries manufacturing base. An economy that does not make/build anything is not sustainable. Oh Yeah, In My Humble Opinion. | ||
| Rainman |
You may be right, Uwgriz, but it's still sad. The Boston Globe is outsourcing its classified ad representatives to Banglore (to quote Dave Barry, I'm not making this up.) So if you want to sell your XB in Beantown, you'll have to talk to someone in India to get into the paper. It may be the wave of the future -- a quick look at everything on my desk says made in China or Indonesia, except my 1985 Western Bell desk phone -- but I get a real bad feeling about my kids' futures. | ||
| Aesquire |
I have long railed against the "Cult of the Harvard MBA" ( if you have one, speak up, tell me where I'm wrong ) A good example of this cult is a western logging company, been around over a century, owned the mountain valley & planted more trees than it harvested. Family business, dedicated to sustained profit & employment for the local community. When the kids didn't want the hassle, they sold out to a megacorp. All trees gone now, mill closed, environmental & economic wasteland. The concept that profit is ALL, and must be larger in the next quarter, month, week, day, second, is madness. No profit means no business. The extremes are wrong. Communism only works if you are the ones exploiting the proletariat. The ruled don't think it's so great. Moving your means of production out of the country is a form of theft, too bad the ones doing it have lovingly bribed it into respectability. Teach them to hunt, teach them to make things, teach them manners, and they will be ok. | ||
| Ducxl |
Does Ducati employ and support your fellow Americans? i got that in protest between my X1+XB12r.I'm still waiting for Buell to make a similar model.  Thane, i may stand corrected,and hope Toyota laborers in Kentucky live comfortable lives.But wonder what profit Japan walks away with.I think it's too much money going to China the balance doesn't seem equitable. How many Buell's sell in China? They don't. This is an informative debate and a good read. | ||
| Teddagreek |
How is Japanese companies, German Companies set up plants here in the USA and are profitable.. Last I heard these are great companies to work for... Greed plain and simple come from the top.. The CEO's, Board of directors etc... Getting rich at the expense of a company future is disgusting.. The Rich get Richer and the poor get poorer and Middle class shrinks even more.. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Better boycott the construction of steel buildings, Butler Buildings and Vistawall window treatments for large scale buildings both very old American business are owned by an Australian company called Bluescope Steel which is the largest steel manufacturing company in the world, Oh ya they also own the largest steel manufacturing plant in the US for Cold Rold steel. By the way check out Butler Manufacturings website they have built some really cool buildings. Their business started out over 100 years ago building grain bins for farmers. I mean really there are so many companies in the US that once where American companies but have been bought out or the majority stock is held by a larger company outside of the US. No one better go on Vacation to Hawaii since ninety percent of the island is owned by Japanesse companies. Since all the big profits leave our country, if we took that attitude we would only have Walmart left because Target is a French owned company. Just something to think about. Might want to start checking who actually owns most of these companies that we all think are American owned. More and more we only have American run companies. (Message edited by thansesxb9rs on February 17, 2007) | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
http://www.butlermfg.com/ Here you go and trust me the Aussie's pay well and take care of their employee's. Bet none of you would have know from this website that this wasn't an American owned business. Unless you looked at this website http://www.bluescopesteel.com/ (Message edited by thansesxb9rs on February 17, 2007) | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Official press release if you couldn't find it. http://www.bluescopesteel.com/navajo/display.cfm?o bjectID=C322ED16-5F29-42C8-A55797ED412B5F72&navID= 7A736E62-EEEB-8E7B-899AA3EF8768F547 | ||
| Rainman |
Last I knew Target was owned by Dayton-Hudson Corp. based in Minneapolis. I think they recently change their name to Target. It's an American corporation. | ||
| Sanchez |
I'm glad to work for a family-owned American company that doesn't outsource a bit of labor and still makes billions of dollars. | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Thought people had quit shopping there after 9-11 because it was French owned, just thought I had heard that. | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
It wouldnt bother me one bit to buy a honda, nissan or other foreign car if it were in the same price range and better quality than its US competition. I just dont care what the "you owe me" crowd thinks. | ||
| Liquorwhere |
My Brother owns a Butler Building distributorship in Denver, he built Grand Junction HD, HD has a contract with Butler, it is a good company, my brother's place Rocky Mountain Building Connection is doing well from what I hear...small business is key, all businesses started as small ones and grew, you get three or four Badwebbers with a great idea and some willingness to risk and boom, you could impact not only your own life but many others, even generations...just food for thought.... | ||
| Rainman |
RE: Target and the French connection is probably because people jokingly call it Tar-jay to make it sound classier. With so many American companies owned by others, it's hard to know what's what. Saab = GM Volvo = Ford Daimler/Chrysler Winchester recently bought by European concern VW Beetle made in Mexico Toyota Corolla made in Canada Customer service for everyone found somewhere else. | ||
| Slaughter |
On the radio last week in a discussion on wages here, benefits and outsourcing, the ONE THING that stuck in my mind was: The cost of medical insurance for the average engineer is MORE than the entire salary of an engineer in India. | ||
| Crusty |
Slaughter, using that argument means that Americans should make the same money as Indians. We should also have the same living conditions and rights. After all, what is the difference between living here in the US or living in India? Carry that to it's conclusion and you'll have a very rich Upper Caste, and a series of lower castes ending with untouchables. The Land of the Free and the Home of the Brave is very rapidly becoming the Land of the Fee and the Home of the Slave. | ||
| Ducxl |
The cost of medical insurance for the average engineer is MORE than the entire salary of an engineer in India. Without protection from that we're all just racing to the bottom. Like they said here,it's "Economics 101".For big biz it's ONLY about the bottom line.We're going down people..And it's happened before,just look at Argentina right now trying to recover.A once prosperous nation that in the end bought more than it sold.We're giving away our nation's wealth,and nobody cares,they just want their cheap products,and they want them NOW! | ||
| Slaughter |
Crusty - I wasn't exactly making that argument, just stating a problem that was put into perspective for me by that one point. I am an anti-protectionist at heart BUT as long as we all insist on "cheaper is better" - ALL work here is vulnerable, not just the "hands-on" making of goods. We have been watching this shift in the past couple of decades... gonna be more and more interesting. Nobody should feel too comfortable. | ||
| Blake |
Relatively speaking, was there ever a time in America's history where a greater percentage of the population was more prosperous and enjoyed more prosperity, than right now? How do we objectively analyze the issue? Choose some applicable parameters for gaging our prosperity and compare them throughout our history? How about home ownership and disposable income? Inflation adjusted income tax revenues? The negativity that seems to abound these days strikes me as myopic. The fact that a greater percentage of Americans than ever before now own their own homes is not something that can be dismissed out of hand I don't think. | ||
| Jimidan |
I agree with Blake 100%. jimidan | ||
| Court |
>>>The negativity that seems to abound these days strikes me as myopic. It's incredible. The world is changing. We'll get to witness it in our lifetime. To those capable or understanding the changes it will be a wonderful place. To many . . . well, to quote a famed philosopher
My Grandmother, as a young girl was sure that flight was but a pipe dream. . . fun to think about, impossible to achieve. Prior to her death in 1988 she was living with my Astronaut Uncle and his wife who traditionally throw the wild annual halcyon bash for the JSC crew going back to the "old days". It was interesting to hear her account of sitting at a table of five and being the ONLY person at the table who had not walked on the moon. Change is fabulous . . . ask Bob Lutz. | ||
| Crusty |
Relatively speaking, was there ever a time in America's history where a greater percentage of the population was more prosperous and enjoyed more prosperity, than right now? Post WW II,(the mid 40s to the early 70s) the average American home had one income and families lived comfortably. It has become almost impossible to have even close to that standard without both spouses having a reasonable income. Throw whatever statistics you want, but the reality is I spend a higher percentage of my paycheck on necessities and have much less disposable income than ever before in my working life. When I started working full time, back in the 60s, ALL companies provided health insurance as a free benefit. Now, I have to pay $150.00/week for marginal coverage. My weekly groceries have literally doubled in cost in less than five years, while my wages have held nearly steady. (I did get a 3% raise two years ago). Gasoline, electricity, natural gas, water, sewer, etc have all shown dramatic increases. My property taxes have doubled. At my last job, I worked along side an older gentleman who had been a dedicated, loyal employee for a company for over 25 years. One day, they called him in to H.R. and laid him off because the plant he was working at was being closed, and the operation was moving overseas. His pension went overseas as well.When I worked with him, he was 64 years old, and he was hoping to be able to retire when he hits 70. People can spout all the numbers they want, I just know what I experience and see with my own eyes. |
