| Author | Message | ||
     Stingaroo |
Mom just told me Dad is set to strike at Harley in York. I have to wait until Dad calls me back to get the details. Their contract runs out Feb 2nd, employees spent this morning at a meeting, then voted. They voted to strike if needed. Anyone else have any knowledge of this? Here is a link to the only thing I could find on the web. http://www.forbes.com/feeds/ap/2007/01/31/ap3382343.html (Message edited by stingaroo on January 31, 2007) | ||
| Jscott |
Hope everything turns out for your father... http://www.ydr.com/newsfull/ci_5125737 | ||
| Two_buells |
YORK, Pa. -- Harley Davidson workers in York County have voted overwhelmingly to go on strike. The strike will begin at 12:01 a.m. Friday. Union members voted down the contract by a 96 percent margin. The strike vote was by a 98 percent margin. The contract covers more than 2,700 workers at Harley Davidson's Springettsbury Township motorcylce plant. | ||
| Naustin |
Wow. I didn't realize Harley was so hard on its employees that 96% of them would walk off the job. Must be some pretty horrible working conditions. I hope the union doesn't push too far, or Harley might end up like Ford in 10 or 15 years - bankrupt under the weight of the retirement packages and pensions, etc... (Message edited by naustin on January 31, 2007) | ||
| Imonabuss |
Court posted elsewhere that the union met at Toyota Arena. I checked it out and below is the title under the photo on the York newspaper. Is that sad or what? Is this country going to make it or become third world? Toyota's plants are not union. "Harley workers talk to the media outside Toyota Arena at the York Expo... (Paul Kuehnel - YDR)" | ||
| Xl1200r |
HD has had a very good track record with thier Unions, I'm suprised they coudln't work something out and it might come to this. I have a feeling this will get resolved before Friday. As a side note (and this is not to poke at anyone in particular), but this is exactly why I don't agree with unions. Workers in this country to not need the protection of a union anymore. If you're so unhappy with the job, then leave. When enough people leave, conditions will change. Unions in this day and age don't do a lick of good for anyone. I'm there are those who disagree with me, but this is just how I feel. Having known a few union memebers, I see how the process is abused on a regular basis on top of all the extras they get for being in a union. | ||
| Bartimus |
I have to agree. I've worked in two different unions in the past, IBEW and IAM. I have to agree that the process does get abused. They tend to cry about the littlest things. I enjoy being non union, and letting my job performance keep me working. The fact that they are striking doesn't mean that Harley treats them bad or there are "horrible" working conditions. It just means the workers are unhappy with the current contract, be it medical benefits, or paycuts. There are a number of reasons to strike, I've seen some pretty poor reasons to strike, but once the union gets on it's soap box, they get everyone fired up about striking and how good it's gonna be when the company comes crawling back asking them to come back. I've also been on the other side, crossing the picket line. a "scab" as the union boys call us. Someone has to do the work during the strike, and the plant won't shut down, if nothing else, the salary employees will take the floor. Brian, I wish the best for your Dad, and your family. I hope it all works out for everyone. (Message edited by Bartimus on January 31, 2007) | ||
| Rocketsprink |
Why oh why do so many people think that if you're in a Union, it's like automatic job security? I don't want to get sucked into this, but seniority is a thing of the past in most Unions now-a-days. I've seen plenty of crappy Union workers sent to the "bench" and there they sit because of their past track records. No company will touch them. Nice that you wish Brian's Dad luck while you put down Unions and their workers. I'm in a Union, so I know of what I speak. But then again, most of you think I'm probably lazy and I have poor working habits because the Union "protects" me. WRONG | ||
| Bikertrash05 |
"Wow. I didn't realize Harley was so hard on its employees that 96% of them would walk off the job. Must be some pretty horrible working conditions. " They are not asking for anything, just asking for nothing to be taken away. "I hope the union doesn't push too far, or Harley might end up like Ford in 10 or 15 years - bankrupt under the weight of the retirement packages and pensions, etc... " I hope Harley doesn't push too far... | ||
| Teddagreek |
I'm not union anymore because I'm management but still fall under civil service rules.. Unions are good for every one we all have benefited from the atrocities Unions have stopped.. way way Back in the day at FORD pre union if you had to use the bathroom you would have to ask your supervisor... When you were done you had to show your evidence... | ||
| Swampy |
The Unions have had their place in history. I have been to many places where the management(owner/s) are self defeating and counter productive. 2 days before Christmas, "Oh Yeah, the business will be closed for the next 2 weeks" Little girl in front office gives 2 week notice that she is leaving for some FED job and the boss fires her(Probably afraid she was going to take customer lists) Sub standard pay for shop mechanics, and when the best ones(20 years experiance) leave the pay goes up. And of course my dealings with Mr. Neverwrong, Uh, Mr. Latimer, you missed your appointment with us today(I never had an appointment with him today!)(But boy, do I have an appointment with him tomorrow!) Then I do get to see the jems also, where the employees are a vital part of the business, where the owner drives the bus into the wash bay for the bus washer at 2 a.m. and the shop puts out an incredible effort to get the job done because they understand the importance of their work and how it all fits into the big picture and they feel that they are contributing a vital part to the entire organization. I just said "Vital Part" twice in a paragraph, get the picture? I have wondered for years how they conveyed that to their employees, and that if I could just bottle it I could get rich selling it. | ||
| Swampy |
Oh Yeah, Best wishes on the out come... | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Unions = Out Sourcing PERIOD!!!!! Was union all through college, will never ever be union again. | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
I would like to think that if people just did the right thing we wouldn't have the problems we Americans now have. One big part of this problem is Health insurance and its out of control pricing. I had some surgery done and the bill was over $16,000.00 I was freaked out because they sent me the bill instead of my insurance company. It took some time and some major stress on my part, but it got straightened out. The insurance co. had to pay $1200.00, How in the hell does the bill go from $160000.00 to $1200.00!!! I guess someone without health insurance is getting bent over big time. Then the other big problem is LAWYERS. When someone can bring a lawsuit against you because you sold them a HOT cup of coffee and win a huge settlement. WTF!!  We just need to do whats right by each other and that goes both ways, employee/employer | ||
| Odie |
I'm in the same union as the HD workers down here at Fort Rucker. I am anti-union. We DO have seniority here and it screws up things royaly in my opinion. Every three years when the contract comes up for re-negotiation someone starts beating the strike drum. I really feel there is no place for unions in this day and age. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
Unions IMHO are NOT necessary. Want an example: Toyota Motor Company. In Georgetown KY they employ 7,000-10,000 employees. Very good pay for the work we do. If you do a good job you get to keep it, if you don't there's 200 people waiting in line outside to replace you. American workers, American management, more then 50% of parts are from American vendors. The Georgetown plant is set to become 100% independant from TMC within 5 years. I hate the work but the money's good and it's the best employer I've ever had. Management and workers are equally treated with respect. Large bonuses. Safety of employees taken to the EXTREME. I've never been a "toyota cheerleader" but when I see the problems that union manufacturers have it boggles the mind. Just an example and my 2cents. Brian, I hope your Dad makes out ok and is back to work soon. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
here go's the union debate again. although i am no longer union because of my brother's who would not back me in the carpenter's union in tampa doesn't mean that i don't believe in them. most company's treat their employee's good to avoid getting involved with the union's and not out of the kindness of their hearts. if there was no union to fall back on you would not have it so good. you'd probably working 60 hr weeks with no overtime and no benefits. down here we were not allowed to strike for monitary reasons only over safety concerns we had a no strike clause in our contract. i'm doing autocadd right now and this business will never see a union so i don't worry about it cause in most cases the pay is good but without any benefits. i could go on and on but i'll shut up now. | ||
| Stingaroo |
Of all the times they decided to replace the telephone poles on the lane back home! My brother said Mom and Dad will not have land line commo till this afternoon. Cell phones dont work since they live in a valley. I know Dad was talking about health benefits and what not for the past month. I am not too sure what the contract problems are, I am hoping to talk to him this evening. He is a grade 12 Maintenance Machinist in building one with alot of experience and no college education. I hope this does not last too long, and ends with people getting back to work. Otherwise Dad will end up like half of the former blue collar workers in America pushing shopping carts at Wal-Mart. Bartimus, Swampy, and Mortarman, thanks for the wishes I hope this is over within a week. Brian | ||
| Jlnance |
most company's treat their employee's good to avoid getting involved with the union's and not out of the kindness of their hearts. I think you're dead on. Unions are like atomic weapons. The threat of unionization makes people act right. But if you actually unionize a place, it's going to die a slow and painful death. | ||
| Bomber |
I've a question - does ANYONE posting on this thread (other than Harvey Mushman, who likely has "insider status") know exactly what the strike is over? What HD was offering, and what the union position is? I suspect not -- which might indicate that we've all lined up in our comfortable places and started lobbing rocks at each other -- I wish for a good outcome for both the Union employees and HDI -- it is a symbiotic relationship in the strictest sense of the word -- one cannot succeed without the other back to the barricades, boys! | ||
| Chasespeed |
If we could union the the Military, we might get paid better, AND, imagine the overtime....  Oh wait...it doesnt work like that does it? I have never been invovled in a union, so I really know NOTHING about it.. BUT, 8 years of working for bad pay, in miserable conditions, never seeing my family... I dont feel much sympathy... At least the scenery changes Singaroo, I wish your Dad and Mom luck, hopefully things get sorted out fast.... Please, NO ONE take offense to this, it isnt meant to pick a fight, just stating MY thoughts, as I have no clue.. Chase | ||
| Rainman |
I've been union. I've been nonunion. When union I had better pay, better benefits and was assured that there was a fair review process should a boss take an arbitrary dislike to me (motorcycle, dog, religion, haircut) and can me without reason. My current job is nonunion and I'm very lucky to have good bosses and coworkers, although the pay is low by industry standards. There are reasons for unions and reasons against them. I'm lucky not to need one right now. By the way, when in the Union I worked every bit as hard as I do now. | ||
| Xl1200r |
I've never been a "toyota cheerleader" but when I see the problems that union manufacturers have it boggles the mind. After reading about all of this, I firmly believe that Ford and GM would not be in the trouble they're in if they didn't have the Unions to deal with. And believe me, they know this. GM shut down a bunch of plants last year which sounded bad on the surface, but the effectively got rid of something like 1/3 of their unionized workforce. The good news is the Detroit Unions are starting to realize this and backing off a little in order to help the industry survive. I just pray they aren't too late. Every GM car sold has to figure in an extra $1000 in price to cover the medical coverage costs for the union workers. This is not acceptable. Look, this is not meant to harp on anyone's case about the whole thing. Unions served a LOT of good when they came on scene during the industrial revolution, but they are no longer needed and put a stranglehold on their respective industries. My girlfriend's father is a bus driver for the local school district and belongs to a union. He calls in sick on a regular basis so he can take long weekends for gun tournaments. One of my best friends is an employee for the State of NY and belongs to the union. If he has to travel somewhere, even if it's 2 hours away, he gets paid for the WHOLE DAY monday to get there, and again for the WHOLE DAY Friday to get home. When he first started, he would get to where he was going by noon and start working. He was told to STOP, and the county agencies he was auditing were surprised to see him there on a Monday at all. Why should MY tax money pay for this kind of bullshit? Maybe I'm just high-headed in the thought that I'd rather deal directly with my managers rather than have some slimeball speak for me. And the fact that they don't make you join, but force you to pay the dues anyways? If this isn't backwards, then I don't know what is. Listen, I hope your father doesn't have to strike and this all gets resolved - I really TRULY do. I don't want to see any American worker out of work. | ||
| Anonymous |
This discussion has already been had in Milwaukee. The salaried folks at headquarters already have to accept a hugely different health plan, and bonuses 1/3 of what they've been in the past. Raises have been capped per department, so what each person gets is limited by their co-workers. Salaried folks at H-D don't get a chance to have a voice and threaten to "strike".... The Milwaukee union guys got a promise of a $300M plant expansion if they made some concessions, they voted it down once, H-D threatened to take their factory expansion elsewhere, and then the union voted for it. The state of WI also tossed in a nice tax break -- though I'm not sure why a company that does almost $6B in business with a 40% gross margin needs a tax break. This *may* be different as its for continuing work, rather than an expansion. But the union workers need to wake up and see that H-D has historically treated them really really really well. The example in the Milwaukee paper was $27/hour. 100s of people line up for a job posting at an H-D factory. Yes, the union helped the company out of its dark days in the 70s and 80s -- but isn't 25 years of riding the wave been repayment enough? Some of the H-D union policies are more generous and loose than ANY of the car companies - where will that lead.....? hello, Ford. hello, GM.  | ||
| Nevrenuf |
there is no doubt that the unions have to go back to the old days of 8 hr's pay for 8 hr's work in order to survive properly. but another problem i incountered was that management would bitch about the workers and the union but they wouldn't send them back to the hall and get someone else out there. since they have been around alot longer than you think they have they won't dissapear that quick. chance's are that if it has to do with benefits, this thing will be straightened out by midnight if not sooner. hopefully your dad and all his coworkers will be fine sting. let him know i said good luck. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
ps. chase my hats off to you and the countless other's who have stayed in past there first hitch. i couldn't do it probably because i wasn't mature enough to deal with it and the burden that i saw it puts on the military family. i was an mm for 4 years and even tried the pa national guard for a couple years. it wasn't me at the time and years later i have regretted not going back in. the only thing i can say is if you can stick it out, stay in. your almost half way there. my cousin's husband at least stayed in the reserve and is now a captain over in jacksonville. good luck to you also. | ||
| Buellshyter |
I've worked in two different unions in the past, IBEW and IAM If you worked for the IBEW then you would know they have a no-strike clause. Unions IMHO are NOT necessary. Maybe they are not necessary for you but they serve a useful purpose for many. In comparison, I think most believe government, as a whole, is a screwed up mess but does any sane person believe society can function without one. Unions are far from perfect but they do provide benefits to their members or they would have no membership. I belong to a union because it provides higher pay, better benefits and better working conditions then my non-union counterparts. If it didn't, I wouldn't be a member. I don't see anything noble in working cheap or licking the owner's boots. If you don't look out for yourself then no one else will. GM and Ford aren't in the mess they are in because of unions, that much you can be certain of. Have you seen the price of foreign cars? They aren't cheap. People aren't buying American because they are too expensive - they aren't buying because the domestics squandered their loyalty by putting out crap products and crap service for too many years. Once you screw someone over it takes double the effort to get them back - take note HD. | ||
| Jlnance |
If it didn't, I wouldn't be a member. Do you have a choice? | ||
| Wolfridgerider |
Harley-Davidson shuts down York plant where strike looms Last updated: Thursday, February 1, 2007 10:39 AM EST YORK, Pa. - Harley-Davidson Inc. shut down production at its largest manufacturing plant Thursday, a day after its unionized workers rejected the company's contract offer and authorized a strike. "We are obviously disappointed by the union's decision," Fred Gates, general manager of Harley-Davidson's York operations, said in a statement. "The proposed contract was structured to help manage future costs that could be detrimental to our business over the long term." The statement also announced the suspension of production of the company's Touring and Softail motorcycles. Officials at the International Association of Machinists and Aerospace Workers Local 175 did not immediately return a telephone message seeking comment Thursday. A strike is expected to begin as early as 12:01 a.m. Friday if a new deal cannot be reached by then, when the contract expires. The company said its proposal included annual wage increases of 4 percent over three years. But part of the increase depended on the union agreeing to contribute toward health insurance coverage; unionized employees currently pay no premium. It also would have doubled the company's 401(k) retirement plan contributions and created a two-tier wage system under which new hires would be paid less than current ones. | ||
| Xl1200r |
^^ According to the blip above, HD doesn't seem to be anything unreasonable. They have to pay a premium for health insurance? You mean just like every other worker in the U.S.??? I bet they won't have the $200/mo premium I have now. I don't see anything noble in working cheap or licking the owner's boots. If you don't look out for yourself then no one else will. By being a member of a union, you aren't looking after yourself. You've hired someone to do it for you. |
