| Author | Message | ||
     Frankfast |
Good-bye James Brown. | ||
| Slaughter |
Frank - let's not confuse Chuck Berry with James Brown. James Brown? I'm sure there are some wives need some good beatings down in hell. | ||
| Swampy |
Oldbird said: "Under Sharia law, all property can be seized." I say: "Under IRS law, all property can be seized." Choose your poison | ||
| Frankfast |
Slaughter - The reference to James Brown was due to his passing over the weekend. I'm well aware of the originator of "Hail, Hail, Rock n Roll". I'm that old. As far as the spousal abuse. That's too bad. (Message edited by frankfast on December 26, 2006) | ||
| Frankfast |
By the way - Wikipedia describes epidemic as a disease that appears at a rate that substantially exceeds what is expected. A few cases of a rare disease such as rabies can be described as an epidemic. Nowhere does it mention prevalent. In a well developed, civilized society such as ours, I think spousal abuse is epidemic. | ||
| Old_bird |
Swampy says: "Under IRS law, all property can be seized." True the IRS can be draconian. There is a big difference between the IRS and Sharia law. In most cases, the IRS is at least semi-respectful, plus you can challenge them in court without fear of being beaten or killed. And if you really don't like a particular tax law, you can become politically active and try to get it changed. You can't appeal Sharia law. It is applied by those claiming religious authority. You can't appeal their decision and you can't, by their definition, change it. Any attempt to defy them is most likely going to end in grave physical harm or death. | ||
| Bomber |
sounds a bit like many so-called Christian faiths -- lack of appeal, can't change it -- ah well, those that choose to believe something, will do so the folks that say they've read the Koran (said to be impossible if not in the original language), cherry pick hateful things from it, and claim to have read BOTH books of the Bible, and find nothing hateful, are, again, cherry picking -- this has ceased to be a discourse (if it ever was) and has become people repeating the same things over and over again, seemingly with the intent of convincing other people to change their points of view . . . . . strange, innit? ah well, solstice has come and gone, the days are getting longer, and there will be rides to take -- can't come soon enough for me | ||
| Xbrad9r |
on the issue of gun control...i have an idea that could reduce the amount of gun deaths in this country. step 1...all those in favor of gun control must volunteer to have their homes searched for guns and if found forfeit them. step 2...those same persons must place a large sign in their front lawns or on front of home (visible while driving by) that states "this home contains no guns" step 3...all burglars can then focus on only those homes with the signs, therefore needing no gun themselves and those of us with guns have no need to use them because our homes would get passed by. | ||
| Frankfast |
I thought we were talking about immigrants. Bomber, your right. Spring can't come soon enough. | ||
| Blake |
"However, I believe the overwhelming majority of the muslim population are as moderate with their religious practices as any other religious group and would assimilate well" Agreed. But we are not talking about the overwhelming majority. We are talking about the minority who support the views of al qaeda and the imposition of sharia law. Moderate muslims estimate that only 10% of islamists worldwide support the views of al qaeda and the imposition of sharia law. That amounts to over 100 MILLION radical extremist muslim cultists. If one has not read the koran in entirety, how may one can comment responsibly about it? Bomber, amigo, that was not cherry picking. Please if you have not, read the book, all of it. Then go find statements or action by Jesus as described in the New Testament that you feel equate to the most troubling of those revealed by muhammed and put down in the koran. My opinion is that equating islam and the koran to Christianity and the Bible as it exists today is a dangerous potentially fatal mistake. We need not analyze texts or doctrine to make a responsible and accurate appraisal of islam versus Christianity or any other religion. We need merely to observe the statements and behavior of leading/popular proponents of the various faiths. I don't characterize lightly any "religion" as a cult. Any organization that mandates execution of apostates is a cult. Period. Islam mandates the execution of apostates and this practice is very much alive and well. I have a friend from Egpyt who resolutely assures me of this hideous truth. He and his family are unable to ever return to their birthplace. There is a price on their heads. They converted from islam to Christianity. If they return to their ancestral home in Egypt, they would be killed. Islam is said to prohibit the killing of "innocents." Fundamentalist islam's definition of "innocents" is much different from the definition that most of us understand. In short, for jihadi-fascists and islamo-fundamentalists, no kufer (non-muslim) is ever "innocent." | ||
| Blake |
No difference between an American soldier and a jihadi-terrorist? Where to start? 1. One hides among civilians; the other is clearly identified and easily recognizable by anyone to be a representative of a state/national military organization. 2. One intentionally targets civilians; the other endures significant personal risk in order to avoid and minimize civilian casualties. 3. One stores weaponry in schools and religious institutions; the other keeps weapons on military bases. 4. One brutally murders in cold blood captured enemy soldiers; the other is honor bound to treat humanely all captured enemy. 5. One serves what he views as the divine words of allah; the other serves justice, the rule of law and the international rules of warfare. | ||
| Blake |
Rejecting fundamentalist muslims from immigrating to America. I am fine with that. In fact, I support the idea wholeheartedly. I suppose we could let in a few so that the FBI/CIA et all can keep a close eye on them and glean valuable intelligence from them, yes when they see fit to make telephone calls back home to their jihadi-terrorist brethren. | ||
| Frankfast |
So the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't meant to intentionally target innocent women and children. Do you think they saw the uniforms on those airman? What do you think they called our soldiers after that attack. The "terrorists" have a long way to go before they equal that slaughter. | ||
| Slaughter |
The statistics are quite interesting since we are NOT fighting a typical uniformed opposition. We're vulnerable in a propoganda war simply because EVERY insurgent, terrorist, enemy combatant IS a civilian by definition. 100% of the bad guys are civilian in our sense of the word. Guess what, every one of "them" we kill is a civilian - even with a gun in his hands. The only uniforms we see in action don't seem to be on the backs of the enemy. Not saying our being there is a good or bad thing in this statement, it just puts "civilian" casualties in perspective. The 16 men who brought down the WTC were "civilian casualties." The 8-11 who flew into the Pentagon were "civilian casualties" | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
Um..who compared our Soldiers to terrorists Blake? | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
So the bombs on Hiroshima and Nagasaki weren't meant to intentionally target innocent women and children. Do you think they saw the uniforms on those airman? What do you think they called our soldiers after that attack. The "terrorists" have a long way to go before they equal that slaughter. Thank God we had great men women that fought in WW2 and sacrificed everything so that morons could say repulsive things about it later on. Now we have a movement of intellectuals that preach horse $h*t like this on our campuses. God bless our men and women in uniform.  | ||
| Frankfast |
Put your guns down Johnny. I'm interested in the welfare of our soldiers more than you'll ever realize. Bring them home safe instead of keeping them in that God-forsaken place where they are nothing more than sitting ducks. Seven more today alone. | ||
| Rocketman |
The point about Sharia law being preached in Australia..............forgive me if I missed where it was expected the Australian people themselves were supposed to conform. I thought it was just expected those immigrant terrorist fanatics were the ones wanting to live under such laws in Australia. I didn't realise it was a new world order soon to sweep the Australasian continent, then the Americas next. Man am I lucky I'm a European. Well at least for now anyway. Rocket | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Just started reading this thread, WOW!! A quick comment for Rockteman, if the US pulled out of every country stopped it's aid and just worried about our own country where would this world be? Lets say we took this point of view starting in 1900. There would not be any European countries just one. The US would be a very safe closed in country, since we had the advanced technology and fire power to keep an invading enemy at bay. But if the US did not come to the aid of our allies we would be very alone in this world. What ever position the US takes there will always be people that do not agree with it, mainly because it is seen as a super power and very free place to live. Would you agree if we pulled out of every country in the World? If we did this today I know of four countries that would not be around tomorrow or next year: Israel, Iraq, Kuwait and South Korea. The US has been placed in a position in this world which makes it look like it is the world police, it has giving aid and help to many many counties that have not given it a ounce of respect or thanks. I am proud to be an American and I am very thankful and proud of our soldiers. Maybe you should talk directly to the soilders that interact with the locals and not pay any attention to what you have seen on TV. Then you may understand why so many have signed up for another tour when they didn't have to. My family came to the US in the early 1900's and immediately embraced the values and laws of their new country. By following these laws you do not have to give up your culture unless your culture goes against everything the laws stand for but then you would be going against everything your new country stands for so why move there? Why is it so wrong to tell someone that if you want to live here follow our rules and standards? Why is it so wrong to ask someone that if they want to live here to learn our language? Why should we have to make them comfortable, when our families where immigrants it wasn't easy for them and they had to adjust or they failed, they didn't receive any special benefits or aid. Why should we bend over backwards to make the current immigrants feel more at home, if they want to come here they should bend over backwards to become an AMERICAN, AUSTRAILIAN, BRITIAN and so on. Because if we do not stand up for this then we will no longer have our country but it will become a new state with different values then the one it was started as. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
Sean, regarding your earlier post, I'm glad that we can disagree and still remain civil. It seems I misunderstood you earlier. I still don't agree - but I do so respectfully. Blake, the terrorist/soldier comparison is spot on. Frank, I couldn't disagree more with the representation of Hiroshima/Nagasaki bombings as 'terrorism.' Unfortunately I think I have to put it in the same category as ART. I may not be able to define it, but I know it when I see it. Frank, as a side note, I appreciate your concern for the soldiers. Honestly I do. However I don't agree that brining them home now is the answer. I'll try to explain why below: My unsolicited two cents on the war in Iraq. The only reason we are not 'winning' in the way we are expected to is because of the division at home. There was a time early in the war (late '03) that Iraq was fairly calm. This time was pre-Fallujah and interestingly enough the entire nation was viewed to be committed to victory. Iraqi insurgents, Iranian and Syrian insurgents had absolutely NO HOPE of victory. They knew there was no way they could win. Even then however, people started to refer to Iraq as Vietnam. When I was in Iraq I noticed that every house, chicken coup, garage, and doghouse had a satellite dish. Let me assure you that those tv's were NOT tuned to Iraqi programming. They watch BBC, CNN, Headline News, FOX, etc... Our arguments and disagreements do not go unnoticed. We have told the 'bad guys' exactly how to 'win' this war. We tell them every night; often repeatedly and in great detail. We have told them that all they have to do is to wait. Wait until America gets tired. Wait until America gets distracted. Wait until America has a 'regime change.' Wait until America has an identity crisis. Wait until America gives up and goes home. I firmly believe that there are those in this country that HATE and DESPISE the current administration so much that they are willing to sacrifice Iraq to feel vindicated against Bush. They actually want us to lose, regardless of the suffering it will bring to Iraq, regardless of the damage it will cause America. Any hint that we give to our enemies that we are not COMMITTED to victory only emboldens them and weakens us. The common Iraqi folk have to 'win' in Iraq. We have set the conditions for them, and they refuse to take charge. They refuse to take charge because they are afraid we will pull out, withdraw, or whatever euphamism you choose to use that equals retreat. Until the Iraqis are confident that we are there for the duration, they will not stand up. As long as they don't stand up, we will lose soldiers. Anyone who believes we need to engage Iran and Syria into the process as the Baker Report has suggested has not paid much attention to the region. There is NO benefit to either Iran or Syria for America to be successful in the region. That would be like the FBI approaching Tony Soprano and asking for his help solving their problems with organized crime. Those are only my opinions. Opinions I have formed both while there and since I've been home. I don't pretend to have all the right answers but I'm confident I know what the wrong ones are. Other soldiers may disagree with me but I believe the bulk would not. I'm not fishing for compliments, or praise, or any of that crap when I bring up my service. I only mention it to highlight how passionately I feel about it. I most likely will go for another tour within the year. I would go gladly if I felt it mattered. Unfortunately, I feel our soldiers are not only fighting the 'bad guys' in Iraq, but also some of our own people. I must say this thread is covering way too many topics and has deviated immensely from the previous discussion. So unless I'm addressed directly, I think my posting here has ended. Good Night ALL, Hope you each had a marvelous Christmas. | ||
| Aesquire |
http://www.americanthinker.com/2006/12/dealing_wit h_the_iraq_insurgen.html I don't agree with all of this article, but there is food for thought. As far as Hiroshima & Nagasaki go.... History, ( not what you were taught perhaps, but Japanese military documents & testimony ) shows that without the instant destruction of a Division of troops in Nagasaki, the high command would have fought on. This would have resulted in the deaths of Millions of Japanese & Allied people. That's not speculation. Hiroshima was perplexing to the Japanese Command, but the death toll was so much less than the July firestorms in Tokyo, that it actually had no effect on their decision. The loss of a few score civilians was utterly unimportant to them. Only the second bomb, & proof that we had a weapon that actually had a military effect, brought about an early end to the war. Note the 3rd bomb was meant for Osaka, or Tokyo. Dresden might be described as a terrorist/revenge operation. ( I would not ) The first firestorm. Look up who ran that one. | ||
| Frankfast |
Mortarman - I respect your opinion more than most adversaries on this tread because I think you are at least honest in your thinking. Yes, part of the reason we will not win is because of people like me who find insufficient cause for the war. That's not the only reason. The official reason for the war given by the administration has been proven false. The Joint Chiefs have recommended that we should not sacrifice more troops. The last election has illustrated that most voters wish this thing to end. Yet the arrogance of this President will mean that all these voices will not be heard. To me winning the war means not sacrificing any more lives and I believe the longer we stay the more blood will be lost as will the war itself. This thread has covered alot of ground. Sorry for the deviation. | ||
| Rocketman |
Maybe you should talk directly to the soldiers that interact with the locals and not pay any attention to what you have seen on TV. Well I suspect my sources of info come from very similar sources as your own and anyone else's on BadWeB. Just like everyone else our opinions are based on education, life experiences, knowing whoever, the news, the man in the moon. End of the day we can only have opinions. But for me there's a problem with opinions when for example someone like Blake, a man of considerable self proclaimed Christian faith, says he is most knowledgeable of the Bible and he has studied the Koran too. How could or should I trust his judgement if he were a politician having a hand in the matters we discuss here? The simple answer is we create a powerful body of people who represent an unbiased stance, and we agree to follow their rulings. The United Nations rulings for Iraq were not adhered to by the United States government and consequently we are where we are today. Whether that is a good or bad thing will always be a matter of opinion for each of us, no matter where we source our information from, but one thing remains clear for all to see. The United States objective is not working. The president himself has said so. So it comes down to opinion again as to whether or not the US military presence in Iraq is doing any good. Yesterday 6 US military personnel were killed in Iraq. That took the total US military killed in Iraq to 5 more than were killed in the 9 / 11 attacks. Yes I heard it on TV. The question I'd most want answering is 'for what'? The good news is, soon we'll blow each other to bits, which will probably do future generations the world of good given some of the idiots in charge today and some of the idiots that believe in them. Rocket | ||
| Bomber |
Blake -- I've read both works, thanks -- wrt the bible, you keep referring to the new testament -- whereas, I was refering to the old AND new testament, which was, some time ago, reconized as the basis of christian faith you have, in the past, claimed that your faith is based on the new, not the old, or a combination of the two -- fiar enough but then you go on support the ten commandments (old testament), you've stated that you believe homosexuality is wrong (old), but seemingly do not support the prohibition against working on the sabbath (old), executing people that touch pigs (again, old), though I do not remember reading your opinion on the appropriate punishment for female adulterers (from the old). Cherry picking. Do I reject and abhor the behavior of violent, fundamentalist religous wackos that have a plan for world domination under the flag of Islam? you bet. Do I think that a TV evengilist that claims to have received word from god that he'll die if he doesn't receive 5 large from his viewers has the same goal? you bet. but hey, that's just me. I try to take each person as they come -- this is, of course, more difficult that sitting and proclaiming that the faith of millions is a cult, and evil at that. Takes critical thinking, and, I believe, an attitude like the one I was taught, early on, in the chritian church in which I was raised -- I was also told this acceptance and willingness to judge each individual on their own merits was somehow christ-like. of course, my cult recognized both the old and new testament as the basis for christian faith, and said cult wasn't reducing to feeling superior by slagging others. I am not nearly as familiar with the new christianity | ||
| Blake |
Brian (Johnnymceldoo), "Um..who compared our Soldiers to terrorists Blake?" That would be Frank when he posted that "Referring to a religion as a "cult" is the same as regarding soldiers as "terrorists" whom, I believe, you would describe those muslims who fight against Americans worldwide." | ||
| Blake |
"...they are nothing more than sitting ducks." I, most Americans, and especially our military men and women serving in Iraq disagree most strongly with your miserable mischaracterization of their status in Iraq. The primary targets at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military, as was Pearl Harbor. The folks attending services at the mosque or shopping at the local marketplace and who are routinely blown up by terrorists are not. | ||
| Frankfast |
Blake - read it again. I didn't describe our soldiers as "terrorists". I described those muslims who fight against Americans as soldiers not "terrorists". And until you regard them as such you can never have an objective opinion on the matter. Get it right. | ||
| Frankfast |
"the primary targets at Hiroshima and Nagasaki were military" Yeah and the thousands of women and children were collateral damage. Give me a break. | ||
| Blake |
Bomber, You are fully equipped to answer your own questions. For instance, what did Christ teach concerning punishment of adulterers? New Testament supercedes old testament. Christians follow first and foremost the teachings of Christ. It ain't a difficult concept. Not sure where you pulled some of your supposed biblical references. Not sure they are even scriptural. Any "faith" that demands the execution of apostates is a cult. Period. Not sure how anyone could argue against that. | ||
| Blake |
Frank, What do you imagine warfare entails? No risk of civilian casualties? War is hell, for sure the most horendous brutal act of civilised humankind. If freedom, national security, liberty and justice are worth defending, then unfortunately that most brutal act, war, is sometimes necessary. You are obviously a pacifist opposed to war for any reason and eager to blame America first while putting politics ahead of country. I cannot oppose such a stance more strongly. I think it is foolish in the extreme. (Message edited by Blake on December 27, 2006) |
