| Author | Message | ||
     Johnnymceldoo |
Late last month, an 18-year-old man went on a shooting spree at his former junior high school in western Germany, killing himself and injuring 11 others. According to reports on the German news site Tagesschau, the man spent a fair bit of time playing "Counter-Strike," which some say may have led to his inspiration to conduct the killing. As a result of this tragedy, two state governments in Bavaria and Lower Saxony have drafted legislation which, according to the Financial Times, would "subject developers, distributors and players of video games whose goal is to inflict 'cruel violence on humans or human-looking characters' to a fine and a maximum of one year in jail." If the measures pass, German gamers, amateur and pro alike, will have to lay off the FPS games for quite a long while and stick to more traditional non-violent games, like, you know, Whats the world coming to?  http://www.engadget.com/2006/12/09/german-legislat ion-would-jail-fps-gamers/ | ||
| Dragon_slayer |
The more correct people push it, the more wrong it feels to me. That's alright, I getting older and one day they can have the world. But meanwhile,     | ||
| Blake |
Psychological conditioning is real and no joke. We prohibit subliminal advertising tactics. I don't think the gaming at issue is subliminal, it is overt. Evil walks the Earth. Wise folks can recognize it. | ||
| Aesquire |
Guns don't kill people, teens that play video games kill people. ( you can buy this T Shirt online now ) There is a slimeoid, I won't post his name, that was on TV right after the Columbine CO. shootings. Blamed it all on video games. The screwed up kids were supposedly "quake players". (If they had been any good at it they would have had a higher body count, shoot & move son, strafe & run )( if you can't tell when I'm joking, quit reading now. ) Also on 09-12-01, on tv, he not only blamed video games, he pulled out a box of a 757 simulator, and bragged about crashing into the WTC. Real Mr. Sensitive. A few years back he would be blaming comic books. Rock & Roll for Manson. Ban dancing in the village, it annoys the gods ( elders ). Crap. Although I admit that crap games like "Carmaggedon" ( which I liked )and "GTA San Andreas" ( which offended me ) may cause some desensitizing, blaming video games for societies problems is like blaming motorcycles for the Hells Angels. There is a voluntary rating system for Baals sake! If you are shooting people out of rage & insanity, I really doubt that Xbox is the reason. Maybe the home life that substituted toys for attention should get a consideration. The fact that "Suicide by Cop" is so popular shows a that a societal problem is pretty rampant. ( The thought that the meaning of the word "rampant" may be unknown to many scares me about as much. ) | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
it's a two edged sword , one edge is the constraning of our (referring to us semi-sane buell riders ) rights , the other is the reallity that hell yea these games really are having a seriouse effect on the minds of our youth . like we sit here night after nite duelling other badwebbers ;-P there are many people and kids sitting at their puters for hours on end killing people and the fine line between reallity and the game becomes one . | ||
| New12r |
Where are the parents in all this???? I was taught the difference between reality and fiction at a very young age, hell I have killed and tourtured many on video games, but doing it for real...NO WAY! | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
the parents are peacefully sitting watching tv and dont have a clue new12r . computers can be very addictive . it's one thing for us to run home to check on the days skyguys posts or find out if rocket has slayed the mighty brucelee (sorry , totally toungue in cheek ) to these kids this has become their life THEIR reallity and it's truley scary !!!! | ||
| Old_bird |
Out of lurk mode to comment on this one. As a 51 yr old dad of four, my limited experience says the games don't make anybody a killer who isn't already inclined that way. What the games do for those that are psychopathic and/or evil, is give them a practice method and help them get their courage up. Because of that practice effect, I am cautious about anybody who is a hardcore, ready to ignore most other activities gamer. Most are harmless, but that rare wacko one scares me. Parents do need to pay attention to what their kids are doing, whether it is on a game set or otherwise. Some gentle intervention goes a long way to making sure kids have a variety of interests. Amusing and true story alert. When my two oldest were young teens, they were hooked on Mortal Kombat. I was concerned and constantly restricting their time on it. I finally found a cure when I was using turkey leftovers to make soup. I called them into the kitchen and announced "Mortal Kombat, kitchen style!" At that I pulled the turkey skeleton from the pot. They didn't play Mortal Kombat for two months after seeing that skeleton dripping of juices and bits of flesh. I'm out for the evening. Bye. | ||
| Woody1911a1 |
"my limited experience says the games don't make anybody a killer who isn't already inclined that way. " hey old bird glad i'm not 51 , another 2 weeks  that's probably what the columbine killers parents thought too . hey i'm not knocking you and you'r kids are probably a-ok but its something all parents should be aware of , it's easy to miss the signs . thank god i have a daughter ;-P | ||
| Roc |
Better or worse than running around the yard playing "guns" with the toy guns? Perhaps the problem is not the conditioning for violence, which is not socially undesirable, but the social isolation of gaming and the more modern world. | ||
| Lost_in_ohio |
I have to chime in on this one. I was in a nascar online racing league. We ran 50% race distances. My wife told me on more than one occasion the day after the race to cool it driving in our car. I drove our car like I was still in nascar 2.....lucky for me I didn't wreck much in the game. I believe that the First person Shooter games do desensitize us to death and the consequenses relating to killing some one. The statement that guns don't kill people, but people do, is true. BUT if your 10 year old plays FPS for say 4 or 5 hours a day for a couple of weeks it becomes old hat to him. He becomes comfortable with death. Why do you think the police get hacked off with all of the Grand theft auto games where you blow away a few guys in blue. More importantly I think these video games are isolating us. Kids today are lacking people skills, hense do not have the ability to work thru problems with there peers or coworkers. Pull out a gun that will fix it. NOT. | ||
| Blake |
Exactly. "Desensitisation" is the key word. Roc, The gore filled murder games are MUCH worse, VERY realistic graphic gore and violence; it is WAY beyond playing cops and robbers or whatnot. Some of the worst are just plain simulated murder. No child should be exposed to that, ever. | ||
| Danny_h__jesternut |
Its not jest the games. Its(violence)is every where in the media today. Turn on the tv, how much murder,hate,violence, maham do you find in prime time programing? Horror movies? The more blood and gore,the higher the body count the merrier? Murder, is to a point being glorified in America today. Weather you're talking vid games, movies,TV shows. Murder & Violence should not, nor ever be considered az entertainment.(period) | ||
| Old_bird |
Hi Woody, Glad you're still a youngster.  I understand that nobody wants to think that their kids are capable of evil. I periodically went through my kids' rooms to see what they had. I had a serious talk with my oldest when I found The Anarchists Cookbook, Volumes 1, 2, and 3. Really opened my eyes that there are things much worse than porn on the internet. I somehow got through to him that while I was sure he wasn't going to do anything other than read them, but that if one of his friends gave a copy to one of his friends who did something stupid that the FBI would work their way back to him and that he had nobody to give them as he was the one who got them off the internet. Yes, I took them away immediately and destroyed them. Also watched while he deleted them from my computer. I watched his computer and paper usage closely after that. I'm pretty sure he never downloaded them again. He turned out pretty good, an electrical engineer with a 4.0. Makes airplane electronics now. My now 21 yr old scared me. A loner into Goth. I found a machete in his room once. I read him the riot act about it and took it away. He seemed so cold and irresponsible that I refused to let him get his driver's license when he turned 16. I figured he would kill somebody because he just didn't care and had real authority problems. When he was 17, I bought him a motorcycle. He was excited for a few minutes and then asked why I would buy him a bike but not let him drive a car. I explained that he was irresponsible, that if he made a mistake on the bike he would pay for it, and that if somebody in a car made a mistake he would "pay" for it. He thought for a while and said he still wanted the bike. He never wrecked, save a low speed dump trying to do a U-turn on a hill. Really funny part is I totalled that bike.  I still worry about him but he seems to be slowly coming around. At least he is holding a job and is talking about going to college. I really tried to limit their game playing to two hours a day. I would take away the blood and guts games after an hour of play and take the controllers away after two hours. They were po'd but I was worried I was being too lenient. I don't mean to scare you but the girls that chased my boys scared me worse than my boys. Way too careless with sex. I had to ban them from the bedrooms. Even with the door open they were pushing for it. I can joke about it now, but it wasn't funny then. I agree parents really need to be involved with their kids, even if the kids don't want them to be. And the kids really need a variety of interests. | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
We have removed any moral concept of right and wrong in our society... There is no good or evil... All views are equivalent... We call terrorist freedom fighters... We call true freedom fighters terrorist... No one owns their failures, it's always the fault of government, walmart, tv, movies, religion, etc... What did we think we were going to end up with? Have we listened to John Lennon's 'imagine' so many damn times that we've begun to believe it? Violent video games, rampant porn, movies, tv, etc are not the problem. They are merely the symptoms of much greater problems. Most can be summed up as a lack of RESPECT. We don't respect each other, We don't respect our parents, We don't respect the law, We don't respect our bodies, We don't respect life so just how the hell are we gonna teach our kids to respect death as something other then entertainment? Off the soapbox now. That wasn't directed at anyone in particular - just something I needed to get off my chest for a while now. Let's talk about motorcycles now  | ||
| Old_bird |
Mike sez: "Most can be summed up as a lack of RESPECT. " +1 "Let's talk about motorcycles now" Mmmm! Motorcycles. Mine has been in pieces so long and I have so little time to get to work on it, that I am actually looking forward to a little unemployment and my severance package. Either I buy another bike or get time to start working on mine. Mmmm! new powdercoat, rear sets, new emulators, adjustable rear shocks, new dual front brakes. How can I shave at least 50 lbs off my sportster (and another 50 off me ). Of course if I find a new job right away, I buy a new bike. Mmmm. XB12X, CityX, Ducati Monster, Suzuki DRZ400,  | ||
| Johnnymceldoo |
That was a great post mortarman. Couldnt agree more. | ||
| Bomber |
a young man appeared at my joint a couple of summers ago (drug by by my daughter) -- within moments, I realized where her new-found gaming interest had come from -- I got nuthin against computer games, I'm just not interested is all when he began to brag about how bad he was due to his prowess at FPS game, I couldn't help it and snorted while leaving the room (remembering how much I hated being lectured by an ol guy when I was his age) oddly enough, he followed me, and asked about my response -- I said that my opion was he was playing at killing people, was not improving any skill that applied to the real world, and asked if he wanted to know about REAL shooting/being shot something in my eyes seemingly tipped him off, and he passed on the opportunity too bad I didn't have OldMan's dead turjey, and the precense of mind to use it ;-} blaming behavior on games is silly, tho desensitization is a real enough factor . . . | ||
| P0p0k0pf |
Precisely Mortar- Unfortunately, through a combination if simplistic associative reasoning and laziness, people hastily choose excuses and causes by superifical appearance and similarity and stop there. Media is a huge culprit regarding "mob intelligence". The article should be targeting the teen's motivation, rather than his inspiration. If the next murder victim in Germany is killed by being kicked to death, will they outlaw soccer? Ironically, Counterstrike is an FPS based on Swat/Law enforcement... | ||
| Glitch |
if games an tv shows brainwashed people into killing psychopaths the world would be a lot less populated. i wish people/government would stop trying to find someone/something to put the blame on rather than taking a long hard look at themselves. i'm with new12r where are the parents? that's the root cause i guess we should ban what some judge as ugly, and censor and burn offensive books, i think free speech should only be pretty, and nice, and cute, and cuddly. and since there is no one up to that task, i will decide what you and yours should and should not be exposed to. | ||
| Midknyte |
Pay attention to follow-up stories on these school shootings and you will find/learn that in every single one of these events over the past few years - the kid was taking Ridlin or a similar drug treatment. It is a mood altering drug wrought with complications that amoung other things causes suicidal tendencies in youths. There is a problem and there is a connection to something, but it has nothing to do with video games... (Message edited by midknyte on December 11, 2006) | ||
| Stealthxb |
Does art imitate life or does life imitate art? | ||
| Stealthxb |
Midknyte is on to something. We should also be exploring the diet and exercise routines of these children. | ||
| Bcordb3 |
I've read this thread with great interest. I am not a gamer, my child has no interest in gaming. I have a question. What is the acronym "FPS" stand for? I don't have a clue. | ||
| Stealthxb |
First-Person Shooter | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
First Person Shooter- It's the type of game player in the first person perspective, where the surroundings on the screen change as you move your 'character.' Myst was a first person game but was not the shooter variety. Most first person games these days involve shooting, very little strategy (or tactics) and rely mostly on reflexes/muscle memory. Games like pacman and mortal kombat would be considered 3rd person games. FPS's are actually marvels of technology. Newer games have incredible enviornments and fairly realistic game 'physics.' I play FPS games, mostly historical military stuff. They are fun, but very removed from reality. Thus part of the problem. As someone who has exchanged actual gunfire, FPS are easy to put in the 'unrealistic' category. Maybe a kid who has no real world experience would consider it realistic. I agree with midknyte and stealth, I think the root lies somewhere else. Ridlin maybe, I've heard that rumor before. Diet and exercise, yeah maybe. I think it may be that kids today don't seem to have a 'life' that doesn't revolve around chat rooms, myspace, and videogames. If you substitute virtual socialization for actually socializing you'll have probs. just my 200 cents... | ||
| Bcordb3 |
Thank you for the explanations guys. | ||
| Greenlantern |
FPS's!!!! I'm still worked up at Thomas the Tank engine for setting a bad example for my 3 year old. These trains run amok crashing and wrecking at every turn and the human railroad workers who maintain and operate them NEVER EVER get any blame for ANYTHING!!! Try some DECAF Sir Topham Hat!!!! And now I Got Bling Bling Ops Squad, San Adreas Multiplayer Deathmatch edition to worry about in my future?!? The decline of western civilization indeed. And the sad part is I'm really not kidding. I hope I can instill in my children the respect of people and life that my parents gave to me  Oh yeah, and can we invent a pill that will stop us from taking a goddamn pill for everything(again not joking)?!? | ||
| Mortarmanmike120 |
 Yeah, what he said... | ||
| Old_bird |
"the kid was taking Ridlin or a similar drug treatment. It is a mood altering drug wrought with complications that amoung other things causes suicidal tendencies in youths. There is a problem and there is a connection to something, but it has nothing to do with video games... " Unfortunately I have experience with this. The docs don't really know how the drugs work. The good ones will tell you that and watch anybody, kid or adult, very closely especially at first. When my ex went on Prozac, she became physically violent. We weren't together too long after that. The anti-depressants did squat for my now 21 yr old. Actually counter-productive given his resistance to taking meds. Those docs insisted that at best the drugs were benign. BS, IMO. My 8 yr old is on Concerta. I'm on Adderall. Those (and Ridlin) are amphetamines (speed) used for ADHD. These work great in our case. We are able to relax and enjoy what we are doing. The amphetamines have the opposite and destructive effect on most people. Both docs watch us closely. They have made it clear they will yank it at the first sign of ineffectiveness. But there are docs that will prescribe those meds and actually increase the dose when the behavior gets worse. IMO, Midknyte has it right. There is some other problem. People try to take shortcuts and use meds when a combination of good morals, physical activity, learning something and concern and consideration for others would solve most of their problems. |
