| Author | Message | ||
     Daves |
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| Rocketman |
Harv, I too have ridden Busa's, here and in the US. Consequently I don't share you views. You know it's really funny that you find it nigh on impossible to give credit to any other motorcycle other than Buell. But allow me the opportunity to let you change your ways. Even just this once. You take the Busa and I'll take the XB. Your choice of twisty road. Think you can beat me? Rocket | ||
| Nobody |
I've been lurking in the background and have a few observations. Might as well keep the pot at a nice, rolling boil. It's hard to tell what the malcontents are after here. Buell should join the rest of the world, yet they should try to be even more different. (Huh?) Buell should should try to be more competitive at racing, yet the motorcycles should be geared primarily for top speed. One area of agreement, though: Buell uses antiquated technology. I'm an engineer. I admit that my specialty is not internal combustion engines. However, I think my exposure to engine technology in general is broad enough to risk a few statements on internal combustion engines. As best I am aware, there have not been any significant new developments in engine design in about 40 years. The theory and principles of engine design are pretty well established. Most of the advances that we've seen in recent decades are, I believe, due to advances in materials, computer-aided design, computer control, and computer-aided manufacturing. These advances allow such things as better-optimized designs and tighter manufacturing tolerances, which are largely invisible to someone looking at the outside of an engine. I seriously doubt than many of these new ludicrous-speed motorcycles are using "new" engines, in the strict sense of the word. No engineer that I know of starts a new design from scratch. You always use as much as possible from the last design, because it is already proven. Whether to refer to an engine as "new" or "modified" is a purely marketing decision. I would argue that Buell could have marketed the Thunderstorm as a "new" engine and none of us would've been the wiser. "Gee, it looks like it was based on the last engine?" Tell me something new. Pushrods have their disadvantages, but they are by no means obsolete. Even today, plenty of cars win races using high-tech race engines with pushrods, even against engines with overhead cams. The XBRR doesn't appear to be doing too bad either. Some have said that if you're looking for top speed then Buell may not be right for you. I'd suggest that motorcycles may not be right for you. Hey, there will always be many cars that're faster than your motorcycle, and do it far more safely. And airplanes are even faster!! But motorcycles are fun, right? They're fun because they lean in the corners and you have a lot of direct control over your vehicle. I've never riden a motorcycle at 4 billion mph, but I'm guessing that it's "fun" for an entirely different reason: because it's so incredibly dangerous. Kind of like bear wrestling, perhaps? Hey, if you enjoy that sort of thing, then more power to you. But I don't think you should expect anyone else to support you in that. It just wouldn't be responsible. Ok, I recognize that there are people out there who'll finally respect you if you ride today's latest go-fast bike. If you want to buy your respect, then you might need to go to a different manufacturer. The market for those bikes is fairly crowded and who knows when Buell will decide that it's worth the expense to create additional models/engines for those segments. So there's my opinion(s). | ||
| Elvis |
The Busa's a canyon carver like an XB12R is a drag-bike. The XB will feel fast down the strip because your front wheel will be in the air the whole trip. The Busa will feel fast in the twisties because you'll be scraping pegs at 20 mph to get the 550 lb. 58.5 inch long beast around a hairpin. Rocket may well have the bowling ball sized testicles he professes, but the rumor of a water cooled Buell is much more interesting to me than his rambling manifestos. | ||
| 2kx1 |
Hey uuummmmmmmnnnnnn 'can we uhh get back to the tasty rumor thing that was goin on the other day,remember the water-cooled one.How about the one about the italian company that was bidding to manufacture a frame for Buell(I think it was verlitchi). Oh yeah ,a zx-14 is faster than a heavy bus so it must be a better bike. | ||
| Midwayav8r |
Hey guys, you missed my point. I don't give a rats patoot about the Hayabusa, I was only using it for a comparison to what is available. I bought my Buell for transportation when I sold my Heritage. I just giggle at all the BS Buell propaganda. I got off on all this stuff in BadWeb, and went to Daytona. Wish I had stayed home. The only pleasure I got out of that trip was painting the pool at VegasBuellers. What a waste! All I'm saying is there is a crap load of competition for our dollars and Buell doesn't seem to coming up to bat. I have also been riding for a long time; 34 years or so. And have always been a Harley owner, but come on, have you been in a dealership lately and seen what the prices are???? Then go look at a Suzuki 109R at $11,700. Hey Cowboy, is the VRod a Harley? Just kidding. Look, as I said I will keep my Buell, but unless customer service increases 10000000 %, I will not buy another. And btw, I bleed Buell. My wife hates my fetish. I always have a Buell shirt on, or jacket, or boots, etc, etc. Eric, Court, Dave read this forum and get on the ball. I'm glad Eric is so humble, but take out the checkbook and put a couple million on the RR, with a top notch team and rider. Just one, please. | ||
| Eboos |
"The bike most responsible for contracting screamer-parker syndrome. You almost can't help being a screamer-parker on a Hayabusa. You're not going to make up time in the corners with that Suzuki" Jack Beaudry. Motorcycle Track Day Handbook pg 23. (Message edited by eboos on September 29, 2006) | ||
| Spiderman |
As best I am aware, there have not been any significant new developments in engine design in about 40 years. well you need to do some reading. the tranny has been updated, heads, cams etc. For example... on my old tube frame motor, which is even closer to the old sporty motors, I put the new XB heads and pistons on her. I also put in cams that were pretty close to the XB's She ran 95RWHP. I say that is a pretty significant to me, i mean what were OG K models puttin down 40RWHP? | ||
| Imonabuss |
How 'bout you take the 'busa and I take the XB. It would be FUN! | ||
| M1combat |
He said significant spidey  . I think he meant like an entirely new valve technology, or something that directly injects compressed air along with fuel or whatever... something revolutionary like the six stroke, or like a rotary or something like that... something "different". Anyway... A Hayabusa is a brilliant touring bike. It's not a sport bike. The power is completely and utterly useless on the best roads on the planet. Totally useless. On my favorite stretch the power of a Hayabusa might be worth five or ten seconds. MAYBE. And that's only if I could pack all that power into my XB without adding weight. That's about 11 miles of road (Not the Dragon). Corner speed and even more importantly exit speed are the kings of going fast over a distance that has a good deal of turns. Everyone runs the same tires (relatively speaking...) so that means everyone can put about the same amount of energy into the pavement... You either do that with speed or mass... We're going for speed here... The Hayabusa is a pig. Can I be beaten by one? Sure, but only by a better rider, ergo... I got beat by the rider, not the bike . No offense to the big guy on the Busa up there but someone with equal skills would ride around the outside of him and slap him on the ass on the way by on an XB... It's physics. IF there's a decent straight afterwords... The busa could get back by. If there's not much of a straight (as is generally the case on a good canyon road...), not gunna happen. The Busa uses too much traction just to keep it's mass where the rider tells it to be. It doesn't have as much left for speed. Exit speed? No one can use any more power than the tires can take when on the edge (and I don't mean on the edge of the tire). The only reason a Buell feels like it doesn't have enough power to slide the rear tire with power application is because you aren't going fast enough. Once you are... power is mostly useless . You need to get the bike stood up and somewhat straight (read... not using "all" the available grip for changing direction) before you can even begin to think that you "Don't have enough throttle". Sure you can slide the tires around a corner on a hayabusa... But you won't be going along as quickly as an XB. You don't have the exit speed nor the corner speed. On my favorite roads... The only thing after the turn is another one. Not much in the way of straightness. For the record... Yes, I've run the Spars with Hayabusas. I've run the spars with people that know the road on Hayabusas. They can't keep the pace. They're too heavy, They're too long, They're too BIG, they have a TON of power that they can't use. Just after the spars... when it straightens out for a few miles.... I never see them again unless they stop at a gas station... That's totally fine by me . | ||
| Spiderman |
1. the picture was posted to show that the busa can corner. 2. it is significant when a motor can produce 100 plus crank hp an stil comply with 08 emmision standards in 2003 WITHOUT a cat or secondary air injection. on a air/oil cooled pushrod twin | ||
| M1combat |
Of course they can go around corners . My post wasn't entirely pointed at you . Just the part about "significant" and my perceptions of it's "in context" meaning . Any bike is exceedingly fast in the right hands, but a few posts were made that indicated that the author is under the impression that a Hayabusa is a good tool for canyon riding when compared to a sportbike. They aren't sportbikes. That's all I was saying . | ||
| Teddagreek |
MCN article? Which MCN? Some Italian company bidding on a buell frame? Where is this info on the web... | ||
| M1combat |
Hasn't Verlichi always made Buell frames? | ||
| Jon |
Can too... Somebody 5 star me. | ||
| Nevrenuf |
the year after i got my m2, i went for a 3100 mile ride of which coming back through deals gap was one of the stops. while going through the twisties i come across a couple of guys on rice burners motioning me to slow down so i stopped to see what was going on, of which was just a few minutes earlier a cop had gone by. but we started talking and the one guy happened to say how quick i was coming around the corners and i started to turn around to see if someone pulled up behind me. these guys were in there one piece leathers and go up there every weekend to do the run as many times as they can. i didn't think i was doing that great, but i wasn't looking at what i was doing either. imagine if i had the same HP as the busa with cornering ability of the buell. | ||
| Rocketman |
How 'bout you take the 'busa and I take the XB. It would be FUN! That's not fair. You want the best bike and you're a pro racer.  But what the hell. Have it your way. You provide the bikes I'll fly over.  I recall MCN taking an R1 and Fireblade and a couple of top line superbikes I forget which, to the Island. They also took a Hayabusa and three top TT riders, one was Phil McAllen, and set about the TT course. The Hayabusa astonished ALL of the testers with its handling. Wish I had that copy somewhere. I'm curious. Does anyone know if Pops Yoshimura altered the frame, swingarm, geometry on his superb race kitted Hayabusa? I know TTS built a UK version, I've seen it. But I don't believe the frame etc was changed at all. It beats me why Pops would want to convert such an ill handling pig into a very powerful race bike if its geometry inhibited its handling to pig status. Oh and don't tell me Pops Busa is different because Yoshi shaved a ton of weight off it. Nope, I think Pops, just like everyone else, was surprised by how well the pig handled.  Those who haven't need to ride a Busa fast down a canyon road. Then again, perhaps you don't because it would shatter some of your illusions. Anyway, there are some here who've ridden Busa's and plenty who haven't, and such matters are purely subjective at the end of a phone line, not a canyon road. Best we get back to the rumour mill eh before Blake has me over the coals for turning BadWeB into BueLLabusas.org. Now there's a thought???? Rocket | ||
| Midwayav8r |
OK, so yus guys didn't see that I wrote that I only put the 'busa in as an example. So, M1, if the Buell is so fast coming out of the corners and can stick like flypaper in all the twisties, and can beat the snot out a 'busa, or anything else, why doesn't it win EVERY race it enters? Hmmmmmmmm? And then look at the races it is in, most of the bikes are 600cc, hmmmmmm again? Was there actually something in this thread that talked about a water cooled engine. I didn't mention that I live in Savannah GA, twisties are non existent, but I do have to ride 40 miles on the freeway everyday to the airport. Catch my point? | ||
| Blake |
There are no illusions being expounded here except by the folks who imagine that a Hyabusa handles well in the twisty turnies. Good grief. | ||
| Daves |
That would almost make it worth buying a Busa for Rocket to use! To see Rocket and Imonabuss ride. Can I play too? Of course I would only take a bet like that if we did it on a track like Blackhawk Farms. I don't ride that fast on public roads. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
How 'bout you take the 'busa and I take the XB. It would be FUN! if it's not in the budget to fly Rocket over here to 'Merica, i'd be glad to give you a run. what kind of road are we talking about? something along the lines of a BattleTrax course? if so, well, you'd have me for sure. but let's make it a REAL road, a mix of all the stuff one finds on a "good" motorcycle road in the real world, and i think me 'n the 'Busa would do ok. at a minimum, it WOULD be fun. to those who think a 'Busa - or any other so-called "heavy" late-model Japanese motorcycle - can't handle, have you ridden one? Blake, you got any seat time on one? i do, and for those of you who don't, you really would be surprised at what a "big old boat" like this can do. heavy is relative. my FJR was "heavy," heavier, in fact, than a Hayabusa. ask M1Combat Don what that bike was capable of, two-up and fully loaded, on about the gnarliest chunk of real world tarmac you're ever likely to find. some of it was the pilot, some of it was the co-pilot, but a LOT of it was the very superb competence of the machine, "heavy" or not. my point? sorry, don't have one, except to state that ALL motorcycles are cool, every last one of them, regardless of displacement, weight, or country of origin. go Buell, i love Erik like a brother, and may he and his company (and BADWEB) always live long and prosper. in fact, may ALL motorcycle companies live long and prosper. this is such a great time to be an enthusiast. FB | ||
| Court |
>>>A Hayabusa is a brilliant touring bike. It's not a sport bike. That's an accuarate statement. Few people in the USofA likely have more 'Busa seat time than my riding partner. Stephen is a sicko 365/yr rider who goes routinely takes 800 mile detours on his way home aboard his Superbusa. It's an incredible touring platform. He's got lights, heated everything, on board mavigation, and about everything Andy Goldfine will sell him. He's also (some of you remember the story when he was supposed to be in NYC at work and appeared in a prominent cycle pub with Erik and Wilke accepting his trophy)a pretty fair rider. The first time he'd ever been on an airplane he flew to East Troy for Homecoming, jumped on a Buell for the first time and promptly cleaned up in BattleTrax. My point is he's ridden both and I'll be riding with him tomorrow and will ask, but I suspect he'd never pit his Busa against a Buell in the twisties. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
...but I suspect he'd never pit his Busa against a Buell in the twisties. i.e., he wouldn't pit his 'Busa against a Buell on Deal's Gap. think he would, tho, on the Cherohala Skyway??? i would. | ||
| Daves |
One of the funniest moments in motorcycling was when 8 year old Mason turned in faster times, on his Honda 50 at BattleTrax than Bob(a very seasoned and good rider) did on his Busa!  | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
i bet Mason remembers this forever. | ||
| Jlnance |
I bet Bob does too. | ||
| Daves |
I didn't kid Bob about it at all  | ||
| Rocketman |
There's a bunch of people here who've ridden Busa's, and they're saying exactly the opposite of those who have never ridden a Busa. Who's telling the truth? Own the corners, ride a Buell? Own the road, ride a Busa? Own both, ride a Brutale. Rocket | ||
| Daves |
Which one am I? I have ridden a Busa, not much but enough. It is too long,too heavy to keep up with a XB in the twisties. Is it a bad bike? I don't think so. It does handle pretty good for a big,heavy,long bike. It is an awesome bike,I don't care for the looks but I understand why it looks that way(can you say, wind tunnel?). It would be a great bike for a high speed trip across the country. Actually a pretty versatile bike. OK in the corners,OK for touring,GREAT for going really fast in a straight line or big sweepers. Could a good rider on a Busa beat a lesser rider on an XB? Sure. Just like a good rider on a Road King could beat the lesser rider on a Busa or a XB. Equal or the same riders on all 3. No contest. Didn't one of the mags try this in the mountains of CA? I think it was a 9R and an R1 and something else? | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
ps: who's the Superhero trying to hide behind Dave's lunch???  |
