| Author | Message | ||
     Bdabuell |
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| Mr_grumpy |
In life, I have found that intelligence and wisdom irritate people more than almost anything. Matt, do you mean "Nobody likes a smartarse" ?  | ||
| Lowflyer |
Well, I have to say there isn't one swinging appendage in here that can offend me in the least. I choose when and where I feel like taking offense, and I have never found any reason to give a rat's ass about what somebody posts on the Internet. Flame away... Oh, and the cute little term 'lily-white' is racist if used to describe a caucasian person, BTW. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Thanks for pointing that out, Lee. The lack of rebuttal by the author of that term in this thread speaks volumes! Apparently only whites can be racist! Innis, my grandfather always used to tell me (with a glass of whiskey in one hand and a beer in the other), "It's better to be a smart arse than a dumb sh*t!" Words to live by. | ||
| Lowflyer |
My grandpa used to say, "Go get me a Schlitz, you little peckerneck." I credit my emotional strength to that type of conditioning early in life.  (Message edited by lowflyer on September 04, 2006) | ||
| Gmc310 |
When I find out what Grandoquilance is I'll let you know if I'm offended or not ,Gary | ||
| Tcskeptic |
"Sing me another song. That is a victocrat argument if ever I heard one. Do I need to point out that we abolished slavery long before even the British did? Need I remind you that slavery still exists all over the world? Are you so insensitive that you imagine it impossible that I might be JEWISH? " 1.) You're using a word coined by Larry Elder. It is a combination of the word "victim" and "democrat" How is this word even relevant? I argued that using the n-word was not comparable to using the term "lily-white" due to the history of the term. Do you have a counter argument, or are you just going to use right wing radio catch phrases as your response? 2.) End of slavery <> end of systematic oppression and intimidation. Are you familiar with the poll tax? 3.) The British are generally accepted to have formally abolished slavery in 1833 with the slavery abolition act (Which was sort of the last stroke in an increasing campaign against slavery that started much earlier by outlawing the trade.) The US did it in 1863 with the Emancipation proclamation, followed by the thirteenth amendment within a few years, how are you counting differently? 4.) Of course slavery still exists throughout the world, but how does this possibly relate to your argument? This just seems like arm waving and distraction to me and not of any significance to the central discussion. 5.) At no time in my argument did I assume you any particular race or ethnic group. Are you arguing that someone of Jewish background might be offended by my saying that the "lily white" did not carry the same historical freight as the N-word? I am not aware of "lily white" ever having been used as a slur against Jews, perhaps you have have other information? | ||
| Lowflyer |
1, 2, 3, 4, 5...my ass. 'Lily-white' is racist if it is used to describe a caucasian person. Period. There are not varying degrees of racism. One thing is not 'more racist' than another because of history or not. "Historical freight" has nothing to do with anything in terms of determining whether a remark is racist or not. This is a pretty simple concept. | ||
| Cochise |
I personally think it is funny the things that people get offended at. I call one of my white friends the "N" word and he back. I never call him that in front of an "African"-American, but I find it hysterical the names, Honky, Whitey, Cracker, lily-white. Lily-White, wow, that's TERRIBLE  give me a break. One time when I was in College (OSU/Okmulgee Tech) I was in a Pizza Hut in Okmulgee and my friends were playing country music. An "African"-American group came in and I told my friends after a ffew "Hick" songs, "Turn that crap off, you Honky-Tonkin' Honky" and those other guys erupted in huge laughter. A comedian named Mike Berbiglia, said on stage that he called his friends, "Cracker, this, and Cracker that and after a show a black man came up to me and says, 'Boy, you sure are a funny cracker', and I told him, 'Um, my friends can call me Cracker, but you can't..'" | ||
| Pwnzor |
Tcskeptic, let me begin by saying I appreciate you taking the time to respond again. I'll do my best to answer each of your statements. 1) Yes, the term "victocrat" was coined by Larry Elder, a black talk show host. You know who he is, so apparently you've heard his show. He is a Libertarian in the truest sense of the word. The fact that you don't understand the word, or the context in which I used it explains why you think he is a "right winger". Try listening some time. 2) Yes I am familiar with the Poll Tax. I'm sure you realize that, like slavery, it ended long before my or your lifetimes began. Here's something you may have overlooked, it discriminated uniformly against ALL poor people, not just blacks. 3) Here is where I admit I was wrong. I had my numbers backwards, plain and simple. Instead, I should have used a comparison with the United Nations, which abolished slavery in 1948. Please excuse this error. My point remains valid, however. 4) You need to reexamine the full dynamics of this multilateral discussion. The implication that somehow slavery does not bear any pertinence to the subject is just ignorant. 5) I'm not Jewish. I was merely pointing out that the Jewish people have been oppressed and hunted to near extinction throughout history. This is not do diminish the plight of Blacks anywhere in the world, just to call attention to the fact that they are not the only downtrodden people in the Human race. I never said you assumed I was white. It was Bcordb3 who assumed that with his comments about me being Lily White, a racist term by definition. Having said all this, how do you justify blaming me or anyone currently alive for the PAST? Do you know anybody involved in the human trade? No, you don't. It's the cry of the victocrat, to bring up things from the past and blame the current administration for them. Shall I suppose from your arguments that you were among the people who believe George Bush doesn't care about black people? It certainly seems that I should draw that assumption, but unlike you I don't ASSUME that there is some big conspiracy to keep blacks poor. No, in fact, that has been accomplished quite efficiently by the Democratic Party, which established the welfare state and "entitlements" in the 1960's. This of course, was the real beginning of the eventual downfall of the United States of America. We are progressing toward a communist society with full wealth redistribution. Almost 60% of my household income goes to Uncle Sam to disseminate as seen fit by people I've never met. Sickening, and I would hope that we can get our acts together in short order, because the way we are going, nothing short of revolution can change the harsh eventualities which face us. Thanks again for taking the time, have a good day, whatever your ideology. (Message edited by pwnzor on September 04, 2006) | ||
| Blake |
"Having said all this, how do you justify blaming me or anyone currently alive for the PAST?" I must have missed that. Where is anyone blaming anyone for the past? While "lilly white" might be racist it does not carry with it anything remotely resembling the extremely horrible connotation of "n____r". End of story. Period. See, that is the very word that men clad in lilly white sheets would assign with extreme loathing and contempt the people they routinely dragged from their families/homes and murdered. Capice? If you don't "get" this, please just drop it. Let us all acknowledge that if we were there at that time in our dark past, we would most likely have been part of the discrimination, no not the lynchings, but we would have likely stood idly by and gone with the status quo. Thank God for men like Abraham Lincoln and the Reverend Martin Luther King Jr. and all the folks who stood/stand up for opressed people anywhere. "Victocrat" sounds more like an amalgam of "victory" and "Democrat." It should be "Victicrat." | ||
| Rocketman |
William Wilberforce was born and lived not 3 miles from where I live. His house is a museum today, much of it kept the same as the day he died. I often drink in what was WW's local pub "The Black Boy". If you've never heard of him then Google away. Rocket | ||
| Jackbequick |
Is that pub still called "The Black Boy"? Jack | ||
| Lowflyer |
"While "lilly white" might be racist it does not carry with it anything remotely resembling the extremely horrible connotation of "n____r". End of story. Period. See, that is the very word that men clad in lilly white sheets would assign with extreme loathing and contempt the people they routinely dragged from their families/homes and murdered. Capice?" No, I don't "capice." There are not varying degrees of racism. There is no racism scale. Diminishing one instance of racism in favor of another for any reason is racist in and of itself. Because the 'n' word was uttered by Klansmen and/or lynch mobs not does not offer it any more weight or significance than other derisive word(s) used to describe ANY OTHER RACE of people regardless of their historical plight. Hell, if we went by that for assigning weight to racist words, we would all have to stop saying the word 'boy.' The sooner people get this, the better off we will all be. End of story. Period. | ||
| Tcskeptic |
1) So you aren't actually going to respond with a counter argument? I have asked for clarification as to relevance and you have refused to give it, in a formal debate that would mean you had ceded the point. 2) This is your second incorrect historical assertion. The poll tax continued well into the 20th century (See the 24th amendment ratified in 1964, and Harper vs. Virginia Board of Elections.) And no it did not discriminate equally against all poor people. In many cases it "grandfathered" in those whose grandfathers had been eligible to vote in the years prior to emancipation. Poll taxes were therefore *specifically designed* to allow some poor whites to vote and to exclude newly "enfranchised" blacks, along with recent poor immigrants. 3) What point remains valid? 4) This is just nonsense. See also Alan Sokal "Transgressing the Boundaries: Toward a Transformative Hermeneutics of Quantum Gravity" 5) I still disagree with your interpretation of what was said. Having said all this, how do you justify blaming me or anyone currently alive for the PAST? Do you know anybody involved in the human trade? No, you don't. It's the cry of the victocrat, to bring up things from the past and blame the current administration for them. Clearly you are having a different argument than I am. I never said anything of the sort. You are responding to points that are not being made, not responding to points that are being made, and plain old making shit up to try and support your position. | ||
| Cochise |
MOST are to an extent racist. Whites can't have an all-white School, Pageant, College, sports conference, college Fund, NAAWP... Why is it that black comedians and hispanic comedians can all say the "N" word, the W.B., "Bean" word, and everything is fine, say Honky (stupidest nickname ever), cracker, whichever, but have a white guy say it and whites are all RACIST, Bull-Butter, I say. | ||
| Lowflyer |
"MOST are to an extent racist. Whites can't have an all-white School, Pageant, College, sports conference, college Fund, NAAWP... Why is it that black comedians and hispanic comedians can all say the "N" word, the W.B., "Bean" word, and everything is fine, say Honky (stupidest nickname ever), cracker, whichever, but have a white guy say it and whites are all RACIST, Bull-Butter, I say." Yep. Racism is racism and, like it or not, most people experience and practice some form of it daily. There is no such thing as a semi-racist remark. It's no worse to be racist towards a black person just because blacks were once openly persecuted than it is to be racist towards a white person. It's all bad. | ||
| Blake |
No one is trying to define any kind of degree of racism. The point is that some racial slurs are more offensive and for good reason, than others. This is due to history and actual atrocities and a long era of oppression, inhumanity against our fellow man. But since you are so enamored with the idea that all racism is indistinguishable with no relative degrees between any of it. I reject that outright. Racism most certainly does exist in varying degrees. For example, murdering someone out of hateful racism to purge your town of them is more racist than making off-color jokes. One form of racism is indeed worse. They are both racist, but one indeed is much worse and more horrible. Frankly, I don't even know what is supposed to be offensive about being called a "honky" or a "cracker." I darn sure know what is so horribly offensive about being called a "n____r." Yes all racism is bad. No one is arguing that it is not bad. That is a debate that you've seemed to invent for yourself here. | ||
| Blake |
I don't dispute that the term "lilly white" as used previously by whoeveritwas was racist. I'm not sure how it is supposed to offend me. It doesn't. Silly me. | ||
| Jon |
Blake, you lilly white so and so... | ||
| Jon |
Alright..."Honky". There, I said it. | ||
| Brineusaf |
Both terms are RACIST and if we are not allowed to say one we should not be able to say another, no exceptions. | ||
| Lowflyer |
I haven't said what is or is not offensive. I don't care. Remember? I reckon I don't understand your definition of racism. Murder is wrong regardless of the motive. I don't think murder is a form of racism. Racism can be a motive for murder, but the two are completely separate things. Killing someone because you hate their race is not more racist than calling someone the n-word. In terms of the severity of the tort, of course murder is more severe than an insult, but the level or severity of the racism is exactly the same - because there is no varying level. Example: No thinking person, in their right mind, looks at the Reginald Denny beating as racism. They look at it as a person being beaten perhaps due to racism. I mean, you wouldn't say, "Damn, now that is really racist. I have seen me some racism before, but WOW! that is REALLY friggin' racist. Holy cow! Did you see how unbelievably racist that beating was? They almost killed that guy. Good thing they didn't. That would have been even more racist" Or would you?  | ||
| Blake |
Now we're talkin', Jon, you cracker! I'm a cracker too!  | ||
| Blake |
Murdering someone because of hatred for their race... yeah, that would be racism. | ||
| Blake |
Okay, time for school. According to my MS Bookshelf 2000 and its American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language, Third Edition, we have the following: hon·ky or hon·kie also hon·key noun So when someone calls you a "honky", they're saying that you are a laborer from Bohemia or Hungary. My my, how offensive. I mean those Bohemian and Hungarian laborers, everyone knows how filthy nasty they are!  crack·er noun I guess the idea is that a cracker is white and thin and a poor miserable morsel of food on its own?  It ain't an insult unless I feel insulted. A Brit VP of Engineering I used to work with once called me "cheeky." I didn't have any idea at that instant that he was meaning that I was impudent. That was probably lucky for him, the arrogant limey. | ||
| Rocketman |
Is that pub still called "The Black Boy"? Ye Olde Black Boy Blake, cheeky is generally an affection term when offered to an adult, unless followed by blasphemy. It does not mean you are impudent, having no connection with such, what so ever. Rocket | ||
| Buellerthanyou |
I'm a Stiff White Honky, but some people have mistakenly referred to me as a Cheeky Monkey! Also, I have been mostly entertained by Pwnzor's posts. He also seems to be a mostly helpful sort who loves his Buell almost as much as I do. HellBuelly J "Racial superiority is a mere pigment of the imagination." --Unknown HellBuelly | ||
| Ulendo |
<quote>American Heritage Dictionary of the English Language<endquote> damn yanks cant even get their language straight. american + english = oxymoron ( Said compeltely tongue in cheek here folks, just to make the point that ANYTHING, or ANY group can be persecuted. rocketmans probably laughing his a$$ off at this though!!) | ||
| Pwnzor |
Well, it becomes increasingly and glaringly obvious that Tcskeptic just can't read and comprehend the english language competently. I answered every single argument, even admitting my own mistake on one point. Instead of just reading my words, he reads INTO them what he wants to hear. By doing so, he has cleverly (or pehaps not so) hijacked the thread. Blake, you're feeding it. The thread was for people offended by me to sound off, not to decide what is racist and what isn't. Since we're completely off track with no likely path back to the original subject, I'll just forget about it and move on. I really don't care what anybody thinks. I'm not going to argue about slavery any more. Want to believe I'm a racist? Fine, I give not a shite. It's the typical victim mentality, completely indoctrinated. Sad. |
