| Author | Message | ||
     Davegess |
There is only one national park in America that is free to visit, Great Smokey Mountains National Park; two if you count the Blue Ridge Parkway. All the rest charge entrance fees. I did not know they had started doing that. The last time I hgad the chance to vist any they were free. Bummer. Still pretty cheap I bet? | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Another little thing to take into account, your money isn't worth what your government says it's worth. It's what everybody else thinks it's worth, witness the dollar exchange rate slide over the last few years. When the Euro was launched a lot of people said it'll never work the dollar will always be the benchmark currency, WRONG. | ||
| Nytrashman |
are ileagle aliens figured into this national debit? they want to pass a law which allows them to collect social security benifits so in my opinion they should be part of this national debt, or better yet just leave my country. they are nothing but a burden and hindrence on our socitity. | ||
| Bomber |
well, parks may charge, but if you want to use an asset you've paid for, go ride on a piece of pavement -- with the exception of a very small portion of public byways, the roads are free of charge . . . . . balming Carter for the inflation that hit during his adminsitration is like saying Bush is at fault for . . . .oh, never mind -- facts are not nearly as much fun as arguing ;-} | ||
| Old_man |
Is anyone disputing that the government is spending this enormous amount above what it gets in taxes, creating this debt? That this debt must be repaid at some point? That interest must be paid on this debt? That taxes are the only way the government has to pay this debt and interest? (Message edited by old man on August 29, 2006) | ||
| Pwnzor |
Do you really think that the government gets ALL it's money from taxes? That's the flaw in your theory. Alarmist propaganda is counterproductive. I don't blame Carter for inflation. I blame him for giving away the Panama Canal, among other things. (Message edited by pwnzor on August 29, 2006) | ||
| Old_man |
Where does the government get money from? I know it's not a profit making entity. I know it gets money from some fees, but I consider that to be a tax also. Does anyone know what percentage of the money the government takes in comes from other than taxation? | ||
| Pwnzor |
Sounds like you're grabbing at straws. Instead of me wasting my time on convincing you otherwise, why don't you do some research on your own and come up with something other than a left wing conspiracy theorists' website to back your claims? I'll go back to talking about my garden in the other thread. My plants and animals are much better listeners. | ||
| Old_man |
"Just the facts, Maam" | ||
| Pwnzor |
No, really! Convince me I'm wrong, point to something other than a website using 99.5% left wing rag newspapers as their cited references. I've got a fair grasp on what's real. A big problem for those on the left has been a lack of same. The President of the United stated is not to blame for everything, regardless of his party. Perhaps a more inward look would yield greater fruit? You get back to me with your results, I just can't wait to see what you show me that I haven't already seen and debunked. | ||
| Old_man |
You may be too young to know the quote. Jack Webb on Dragnet when given opinions when solving a case. I gave no opinions - blamed no one. Stated an accepted fact. If you choose to disbelieve that the national debt is that much. So be it. I didn't post it to convince anybody, but to get people to pay attention to what's happening. Be it good or bad for this country, only time will tell. I don't know for sure one way or the other. When I was a young man I was sure about everything. The older I got the more I realized that I don't know everthing and still have a lot to learn. You seem like a very nice man. I respect you, admire your love of animals and plants. Please don't take what I say in these posts as attacks against you or anyone else. | ||
| Blake |
Jack (Old_man), Did you not read the linked commentary I posted? Trust me, we don't ever have to pay any of it back, ever, not on the ledge sheet anyway. Someone will get their $$ while we simply borrow another $$ from someone else. As long as the dollar is strong (our economy is strong) that won't change. Grump, "When the Euro was launched a lot of people said it'll never work the dollar will always be the benchmark currency, WRONG." Pretty sure that the dollar remains the benchmark currency throughout the world. I noticed with interest that even Hamas and Hezbolah use genuine United States of America dollars. Not Euros. Some folks assume that a falling/weakening dollar is a bad thing. For consumers who are purchasing a bunch of imported good, yeah it will cause prices to rise. But guess what folks, a weak or less-strong dollar makes American products and services more affordable for the rest of the world and more attractive here at home. In short, a less-strong dollar puts Americans back to work. Anyone notice the unemployment rate in America lately? Care to compare that to the rates in France or Germany? Who's economic policies would seem to be superior? The answer is obvious. Really.  | ||
| Old_man |
Blake, Of course, I hope for my sake and everyone else that the economy stays healthy. But here in the Pittsburgh area things don't look too rosy. Plants closing, jobs being exported - sad people losing life long careers. The only jobs, minimum wage at Wal Mart etc. I can do nothing but hope that things improve here. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Old_man, I'm not too young to know about Dragnet, believe me. Harry Morgan is one of my very favorite actors, reminds me of my own dad, God rest his eternal soul. I must say that when you were born, Jack, the world was not such a rosy place then, either. We were spread out all over the place in the greatest global conflict of all time. 55 million people lost their lives in that war, 418500 of them Americans. That was over 3% of our population at the time. People had to sacrifice copper, lead, sugar, salt, tobacco, all kinds of things. I realize I'm not saying anything new to you, and I'm sure your years afford you the wisdom to see that times have been worse, much worse. I bear you no ill will, nor do I think you were attacking anyone. Spirited debate is often mistaken for rabble rousing. When I see a site that quotes one fact, a number at the top of the screen, and then following it with about 50 links to articles in left-leaning newspapers with skewed poll data, I have to call that to task. As for the failing dollar, it is to laugh. Remember when they found all that cash stuffed into sheetmetal boxes and walled up in Saddam's palaces? Somebody remind me please which country's currency was found in those boxes? How about in Indonesia where they kidnap international ship's captains and navigators for ransom? What currency do they demand every time? Why does Fidel Castro use US dollars for all his dealings? Hugo Chavez? What kind of money do illegal aliens wire to their families each week? The US Dollar is the most powerful piece of linen that ever graced a printing press. That being said, I also think it will have been the most influential scrip ever issued, even into the future. I seriously doubt that any other currency past, present, or future will bear the weight of the almighty buck. Even if the dollar completely goes away. I was speaking in person recently with another member of this board who shall remain nameless. We were talking along these same lines and he said something that rung true, given our current course as a nation. He said, "I give the United States fifty years." I think he was being generous. I don't think we'll get back to the proper mental state in this country, because we have forgotten sacrifice. We, the public, have not had to give up anything for a war effort in 60 years. (yes i know people have died, don't retort with that please) We are at war, but only those who have actually lost someone really feel it. The rest of us go right on with our lives, air conditioned houses and cars with leather interiors. We are in fact a decadent society, and it is this decadence that much of the rest of the world fails to understand and so resent. Few among us have earned the life we lead now. It was given to us by those who went before, boldly and with patriotic fervor. The reason we carry a debt is simple. We can. Everyone knows that doing business with the USA is safe and profitable, for now at least.  BTW Jack, I think you're a nice guy too. (Message edited by pwnzor on August 29, 2006) | ||
| Old_man |
Amen. Even if I don't sound like it. I am very optomistic about the future of this country. I am seeing some very painful changes taking place, but I also see that our people are strong. I have seen the best and the worst. I was a policeman for 38 years, the last 23 years in homicide. It could have been easy to be cynical about people, but I saw the good in most people. I have lived through much worse times. We got through them. | ||
| Mr_grumpy |
Scuse me for cracking up laughing here, I said that many people said the Euro would never work & the USD would always be the benchmark currency, those people WERE WRONG! The Euro HAS worked & is now worth about 20% more than the buck, as Oldman says, I'm just stating a fact. But the thing that brings tears of laughter is justification of a point of view using as example, Saddam Hussein, criminals, & terrorists, well if they think the Dollar's good, who am I to argue. I don't know enough about global economics to debate this in depth, but I know it's cyclical, or to put it another way "what go's around comes around" I'll catch you later going by the other way.  | ||
| Bomber |
Grump -- I agree, the Euro buys more than the dollar, and many said it would never work (few of those folks were in the states, however -- most here were, 1, a little bored over the bickering, and 2, not paying much attention . . . whether these are good and rightous actions are a matter for an interesting Speyside conversation -- heal up soon, here?) (oh, and those that WERE paying attention were horribly dismayed at the amount of power given to a group of un-elected gits in Beligium) Global economics IS highly cyclical -- a buddy who's hobby this is has, in the course of the last 30 years, invested heavily in junk silver, gold, Japanese Yen, dollars, peruvian marching dust, and vinyl records (grin) -- he's worth a little more now than he was the US economy will not fail in the near term, as the rest of the economic world wouldn't let it, even if it were close to failure -- that crash would bring down way too much of the rest of the developed world the developed world's economy is to interconencted for the failure of hte dollar to be taken lightly, or allowed -- witness the fiscal concern over the illness of the yen a few years ago, and no one compares the Japanese economy with that of the US in terms of global influence -- same is true of the Euro -- the rest of the developed world owuld prop it up to ensure the health of the world economy if it were to fail, or show signs of it the economy here in the US if both in good shape and miserable, at the same time. it's going through another transition (from smokestack to knowledge worker in the 60s/70s, form knoweldge worker to service worker/intellectual capital generator in the 90s/00s) -- more changes will come, for certain -- we just don't know what they will be -- I would submit that anhyone that expects to get a gig in a plant, work hard and loyally, send their kids to school and retire to Florida is mistaken -- that economy simply doesn't exist now, any more than a rural agrarian economy exists (btw, this may the the Euros weakest link, Europe's insistance in propping up 15 hectre farms, and allowing folks that make 4 wheels of chesse a year to survive on government subsidies) (we do the same silly thing here in the states, albeit on the larger scale) while I respect P's point of view, I have a lil more faith in the US (which is, at the end of the day, nothing but it's citezens) -- we've never been much for sacrifice until we're backed into a corner -- once in said corner, however, the society does what it feels it must -- the fact is, or, rather, my opinion is, our society hasn't felt backed into a corner since World War 2 -- the vast majority of the electorate does not feel it's been directly impacted by hostile forces to the degree that makes it willing to turn off football or reality TV long enough to respond -- they may be right, or they may be wrong, but that's how I see it. phew -- think I'll consider decaf | ||
| Blake |
Grumpy, The currency exchange rate between the Euro and Dollar has little to nothing to do with the benchmark status of either at this point. The euro is not the world's benchmark currency which is what you seemed to imply. The dollar remains at present the benchmark currency. The euro does work. Good news for sure. I never thought that it wouldn't work. Not sure where that idea sprang forth, that folks didn't think it would work. Maybe some over-opinionated economists/jounalists? When the EU commences issuing government bonds that are as widely, universally really, trusted and esteemed as those of the USA, then it may have a chance at becoming the world's benchmark currency. Who knows, by then maybe the Dollar and the Euro will unite, the Doleuro, the Eular?  Aren't French Franks and British Pounds still viable and in circulation? If so, would that support the idea that the Euro is "working"? I really don't know, just asking. | ||
| Blake |
Old Man Jim, It is impossible that all or even most new jobs are low-paying. Where do you get this stuff? Please review the employment section of your local newspaper and check out the veracity of that assertion. I'm positive that an objective analysis will prove your thinking in error. | ||
| Pwnzor |
I think Grumpy said it best himself: I don't know enough about global economics to debate this in depth Try spending a Euro in, well, ANYWHERE but Europe. *NO SALE* | ||
| Pwnzor |
peruvian marching dust  Tell me more about this, please. Is that a real currency or is it the "other" dust that comes from Peru? | ||
| Brucelee |
Ballpark Franks are still around but I think the French Franc is gone. Brit lbs still are around. The US economy is still the envy of the world. The US economy is constantly undergoing changes. Name a time when this was NOT true. The Federal Government spends like a drunken sailor. Raise your hand if you are surprised. And the band played on! | ||
| Blake |
For instance, how many postings for Engineering related jobs are there? Out of 1,432 jobs postings in the Pittsburgh Post Gazette, 63 are for Engineering related positions. | ||
| Bomber |
P -- real currancy is something you can trade for stuff, innit? my bud used it to pay many debts, but mostly private ones {smile} Blake -- in some locales, the new gigs being generated are, in fact, lower paying than the ones disappearing -- no doubt about that -- also, the using the "help wanted" section of the paper (or Monster or Careerbuilder, for that matter) is akin to using the real estate ads for research about selling prices for homes -- there is a relationship, but it's far from one-to-one -- median income in some locations is steady or falling, not rising -- | ||
| Old_man |
Blake, I was only speaking about the average plant worker, a man with no degree. and of course, I was generalizing, there are exceptions. But the average worker, losing a well paying job that he has had for his adult life, finds it hard to find another well paying job, when there are thousands in the same boat. | ||
| Pwnzor |
Thanks Bomber I just wanted to make sure I was on the same page. The Long Beach Naval Shipyard closed up on us about 15 years ago or so, forcing my dad into early retirement. He had been there 37 years already, and became an engineer with little more than a high school diploma and some night school courses. He started as a young buck at $0.33 per hour and following in Grandpa's footsteps, moved up quickly (10 years) into NDT (Non-Destructive Testing). He became the master of Magnaflux equipment and imlemented a training program to bring everyone up to speed on this (at the time) cutting-edge ultrasound gear. He could scarcely qualify as an engineer in anything other than that specific field. If that place had closed 10 years earlier it would have ruined our family financially unless we uprooted and moved to Maine where they were looking for someone to fill that role in the shipyard there. If that had happened, you bet your bottom dollar I'd be living in Maine right now. There used to be a time when a man's job moved somewhere else, the man and his family would pick up and go. Now everyone seems loathe to move anywhere, they get in their rut and stay. If I thought there was more money for my trucks anywhere else, I'd be there. I'm done. | ||
| Bomber |
you bet, P -- happy to serve ;-} | ||
| Blake |
Plant jobs, gotcha. I don't think that is anything new in the last fifty years. Local industry closes up shop or moves and folks there are left looking for work. Sorry Bomber, I don't buy the lower paying jobs are taking over view. Not sure that is what you are saying or not. I know that the price of oil has caused a decrease in the buying power of everyone's incomes. But I doubt that has anything to do with any kind of shift in the workforce. I also think that there is a long overdue correction needed to many of the union wage scales and onerous union employment terms in this country. American manufacturers that cannot remain competitive against overseas labor rates inevitably must move their plants offshore or go out of business, yet the unions are the first to cry about plant shutdowns. The simple glaring truth is that a man's wages must now be competitive on the world scale. If wages are too high, the jobs move to where they are lower. Boeing uses Russion job shops for some of their engineering. Russian engineers are good and cheap. But they suck at SAE measurements. LOL. I know, I'm likely preaching to the choir. I just get weary of the negativity by some folks who seem to feel everyone is entitled to a lifelong job with a fat wage always right in their hometown. Not saying that is where you or the Grumpy man fit, more the moveon.org types I guess. Sorry, guess I'm the grumpy one today.  | ||
| Alanshouse |
I sent payment this morning. | ||
| Cowboy |
Well I think that wages should be based strickly on the merit system. In my working years if I had not bargained for my salery. I would have been working for $100.00 to $300.00 per day less than I receved. I know this to be true as some of my friends who were working with me was doing this. |
