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Johnnylunchbox
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 04:15 pm: | 
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Tramp, not to mention that a full buttstock can knock the stink out of anyone when you're out of rounds and you need a nice Shillelagh. |
M1combat
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 04:24 pm: |
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I prefer the models with a pistol grip and a butt stock... Mainly because I like to just go shoot and they tend to be a little more accurate on the second of a double tap. Granted... a 12ga double tap is generally anything but accurate. I use a Benelli M1 though, and at 50' the second slug is about 2" off the first one. A very nice 12Ga if you ask me. I have no intention of buying something "less evil" just for home defense, so if I need to use it for defense it gets loaded with '00 buck. The lwayers will just have to defend me I suppose. As far as I'm concerned the tool shouldn't matter. Only the intent and the situation. Maybe I'll fry for that, but I probably won't die for it.
See my profile for a pic. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 05:14 pm: |
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unfortunately, the court rarely sees it the way you do.
having a benelli m1 lying around tells a jury (or at least allows the human target's counsel to tell a jury) that you're a gun nut...kind of a wannabe sgt. rock who reads soldier-of-fiction magazine and jerks off to movies like 'dirty harry'.
granted, i don't see it that way, so please don't misinterpret my post as such.
I like my guns, and enjoy shooting them. I'd enjoy spending time shooting with you.
there just happen to be far too many adept counselors out there in the real world who can rip you a new one with photos, such as your profile shot, and the fact that you use the model of your combat-designed weapon as your screenname on a motorcycle forum.
"I direct the jury to exhibit A" (see "m1 combat"'s badweb profile pic).
kinda makes it look like you were just hanging around, like treat williams in "things to do in denver when you're dead", waiting for some would-be steve buscemi to enter your crib.
"I'm godzilla, and you're japan", indeed.
no, out here in the real world, you're better off with a sporting arm by the bed...
and a hunting license on your vest in the closet. "why would a noncombatant own a combat weapon, anyway?" the counselor asks.
the days of sport-f*cking are most definitely over. this is the age of homeland security and the patriot act...it's still in effect, no matter what you think.
be smart, stay cool, get better-adjusted hobbies.
....I like my guns, and I definitely respect your right to enjoy yours, I just hate thinking that a decent cat who enjoys the sporting possibilities of his fine benelli scattergun might have a wrose go of it, in court, due to a new media image of what defines a 'gun nut'.
(Message edited by tramp on June 30, 2006) |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 05:52 pm: |
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in the immortal words of NRA spokesman charlton heston (& I've posted this before):
"guns don't kill people....
damn filthy apes with guns kill people." |
Hammer71
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 06:21 pm: |
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Guns dont kill people...I kill people. |
Road_thing
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 06:39 pm: |
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Aesquire
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 07:47 pm: |
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The M1 Bennelli is a "Turkey Gun". ( repeat that over & over & pretend to forget the word "combat" in the context of guns. I'm sure M1Combat's name relates to his interest in "street fighter" motorcycles. Right? ) The pistol grip aids in aiming at the Wild Turkey, Ben Franklin's choice for the American Bird, and an agile, fast, smart prey with good vision. Turkeys are shot from a sitting position quite a lot, & wrist angle is better with a pistol grip.
That's my excuse & I'm sticking to it.
I would avoid buckshot in the house. Studies have been made about penetration, and #1 buck & bigger do reach the vital organs of a deer sized critter, while #8 trap loads do not. The smaller stuff probably won't go through interiors walls & still be as deadly, so #4 may be ideal. IMHO ( humans are roughly deer sized critters come to think of it. )
I can't hit the narrow side of a barn with a "cruiser" style 12 Ga. & I don't know anyone else who can either. If you can do actual aimed rapid fire with a cruiser, you are stronger that me. Not a good "Mom" gun. A youth model with short stock works better in close quarters, and a legal barrel length is fine. So's a 20 Ga. really.
As far as not aiming a shotgun? Balderdash. At under 7 yards ( how big is your house? ) the entire shot column is only a few inches across, and it only opens about an inch a yard. I can easily miss a stationary target with a scatter gun at point blank range. I've done it. |
Djkaplan
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 07:59 pm: |
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There is no way to hide the intent of my rifle.
Christ... it's got a bayonet on it. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 08:04 pm: |
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I also have a 410 2bbl that the bbl is only 1 inch longer than a 3 inch mag.shell #4 goose load is sure rough as long as you are with in 4 or 5 feet. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:13 pm: |
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you can actually shoot .44 mags outta that 410, y'know....just keep it close- the bbl's not rifled, and they'll end up going every which way past 10 yd.s or so. still- as long as you have no choke, .44s are fine in that pole. vice-vera's fine, as well, although you can foul up your .44 rifling with birdshot.
incidentally, at close range, 8 1/2 will kill a man, when placed correctly. "wad-range" ensures one big hole regardless of shot size. |
Cowboy
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:23 pm: |
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Tramp the 410 is rifled that is what makes it legal the law is you can not have a smothe bore under 20 and 1/8 inch for free and you can pay a tax and go down to 18 inch. It is chambered fo 45 cal but will handle 410 perfect. |
Jackbequick
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:28 pm: |
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I must have sold 5 to 10 Mossberg 500's a year for use a primary home defense guns when I had a dealer's FFL. Most were the short barreled version and many came with a optional pistol grip.
A lot of the buyers were older folks and/or inexperienced shooters, a few were lightly constructed females. I used to tell people to shoot them with the buttstock on and using cheap, low brass, 2-3/4" trap & skeet or field loads before they tried the pistol grip.
And I always warned them that if they shot 2-3/4 Magnums with the pistol grip the 500 would inflict wounds at both ends of the gun. And that with 3" 00 Buck Magnums, wrist and hand injuries could occur.
I had one old guy actually sustain a pretty serious wrist injury with the pistol grip fitted and I bought his gun back when he asked me to. He says it went off by accident when he did not have a proper grip on it but I suspect he tried 00 Buck 2-3/4" Magnums.
I still have one, it is propped standing on my bedroom closet shelf with four rounds of #6 field loads and one round of 2-3/4" Magnum 00 Buck for the last round as a "closer". I have the bolt closed and the hammer dropped on an empty chamber with the safety off. If I have to pick it up in the middle of the night, the first thing I'll do is rack it once loudly and proceed to investigate the possible problem. Most of the people that don't belong or should not be within hearing will leave when they hear that first round being racked home. Hopefully.
My wife understands the gun, the racking procedure, knows about "straight trigger finger" and knows how to bring the gun into play. She has fired it and, while she found it unpleasant, feels that she could use it to defend herself if it seemed better than the alternative. But she is going to be madder than hell at me if she ever needs that 5th round.
Jack |
Diablobrian
| | Posted on Friday, June 30, 2006 - 10:44 pm: |
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the remington 1187 special purpose makes a great defense/hunting gun with ghost rings
mounted and the plug out of the magazine. #3 shot is my choice for the non-hunting duty.
Choke tubes make it adaptable to the desired ranges, and if you're of a mind to do so
an extended choke tube can be made into a nice, removable, duck bill. a nice flat
spread of shot will make it hard to miss with and shot density will still be good
enough inside 20 yards or so.
Shot placement is the last word in stopping power, but lots of large holes make
the odds of hitting a critical spot skew decidedly in your direction. |
Roc
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 03:15 am: |
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Safe chamber pressure for a .410 is very different than chamber pressure for a .44 magnum. Don’t turn your shotgun into a bomb.
Here is a good link about various shotgun loads fired into ballistic gel. - http://www.tacticalworks.ca/ballistics_shotgun.html |
Tramp
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 09:45 am: |
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um...roc- a 410 with such a short barrel. won't have chamber pressure issues. I am more than aware of said issues....with longer barrels.
cowboy- those laws you speak of are NOT federal. here in NY an 18.25 bbl. is legal and non-taxable.
jackbequick thanks for further corroborating my anti-pistol grip rant...
esp for smaller/older/gentler folks. |
Zradix
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 10:03 am: |
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lever action 410's are fun. I have a marlin. Not for home defense. (you want VERY reliable actions)
On the whole length thing..Here in MI you can't even shorten a shotgun to a pistol length. I think thats a fed law also. I called the cop shop to see if I could shorten a double barrel coach gun to a pistol length gun. I wanted to actually make it a pistol. So I called them to see how I could register it. Boy did the cop on the phone give me grief. lol
As far as shotgun pistols go about the only ones out there I can find of any quality are some thompson centers for the 45. ( sure you can get those cast derringer pieces of junk, which are illegal because they are a smoothbore pistol) I say illegal. If you have the same fed firearms license that allows you to have full autos and I think bazookas then you can own a smoothbore pistol. Doesn't seem right. The Thompsons are illegal in Cal i believe. The only reason they are legal at all is sort of funny. The whole barrel isn't rifled. They have an insert like a screw in choke that is rifled. To me it's funny. Buy good things to them for making it. Some laws deserve to be broken. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 11:01 am: |
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Hey Tramp do you load ammo? My supplier was killed in Viet Nam but ended up dying a few weeks ago. Now I'm at a loss as to where to get certain things. |
Tramp
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:32 pm: |
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NO.
how does one get killed "but" end up dying, anyway?
good luck. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 12:54 pm: |
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Mesothelioma was the final name they put on it. He came home sick and spent about 6 months out of every year in the VA Hospital since 1972... so basically my whole life he suffered from mysterious illnesses.
I've spent my entire life watching my heroes die. It only makes me stronger.
As for ammo I've got a decent stockpile, but my friend used to load a bunch for me about 2x per year. I'd order up certain things and he would always throw in a few surprises for me. He'll be sorely missed but at least he made it home, unlike many.
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Tramp
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 02:05 pm: |
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mesothelioma, once diagnosed, indicates no more than a 24 month survivabilty.
he probably had other forms of asbestosis prior to his mesothilial involvement.
for the record, that's what killed steve mcqueen, likely from all the brakes he did in his lifetime, although sonny barger credits mcqueen's helmet lining as a prabable asbestos vector. be careful around brakes, clutches, etc....use liberal quantities of brake parst cleaner....and even simple water (!) to keep the particulates from becoming airborne.
I am very sorry for your loss.
I find OTC ammo works swell for me. |
Pwnzor
| | Posted on Saturday, July 01, 2006 - 02:18 pm: |
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That's correct Tramp. He was always battling something new. He never let it get him down, he was turning wrenches right up till the last 4 or 5 months when he couldn't breathe well enough to work. Known for being the first one to jump off the chopper and last one to leave the ground. There are dozens of men alive and well today who owe it all to him. Longest funeral I ever attended, over 3 hours of people speaking. Then a procession of over 200 Harley's and one Buell (me) went on a last ride with him to his final resting place. There, in keeping with the VNVMC tradition, after the color guard and report of 21 gun salutes we lowered him 6 feet and buried him by hand with shovels. Everyone came forward to shovel in a scoop of earth and say goodbye. Then the remainder was filled in by myself and his immediate family. Rest in peace my friend the world is better having known you.
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