| Author | Message | ||
     Aldaytona |
Troopers highly trained? Six to eight week academy, trained yes, highly trained, I think not. Doctors are highly trained, NASA engineers are highly trained, most folks by now get the drift. Firemen highly trained, same scenario as troopers although most firemen are highly trained, in their SECOND job as they only work a couple of days for the city, and if you really know any firemen, most of them have a business that their real energy goes into. Highly trained  | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Al, what are the specific requirements to become a New York State Trooper? after four years as a New York State Trooper, what additional and/or ongoing training might Trooper Todeschini have had? what are the specific training requirements to become a lieutenant in the Solvay, New York fire department? i contend that Trooper Todeschini's professional training qualified him as a "highly trained" law enforcement officer. love your profile pic. FB | ||
| Seanp |
Regardless of his state of training, or his experience, or anything else, NONE OF YOU WERE THERE and you DON'T KNOW THE DETAILS OF WHAT HAPPENED so you HAVE NO RIGHT TO JUDGE. Have any of you ever made a mistake? Did you pay with your life? (Obviously not.) Did you almost pay with your life? If you almost paid with your life, think about how you'd want people to analyze what you did if you'd died. Would you want a bunch of random people saying some of the following things about you and the circumstances that lead to your death: highly trained, I think not Oh, you must have been involved with writing the training program for this officer. If you try to catch a bike in an suv you have made a poor decision PERIOD! Period! We know all the facts - this is the only logical conclusion! I have a feeling that this trooper wouldve have gone over board with the motorcyclist if he did catch hi. Thank you Dr. Clinical Psychiatrist - that's definitely a logical conclusion. Conducting a high speed chase in an SUV indicates very poor judgement. Case dismissed. Wow, who needs an investigation into an accident? We've got experts right here! Judge, jury, and executioner! Doesn't this fall under the theory of Natural Selection? I hope you never have a relative die due to a mistake or error in judgment on their part. All because a stupid cop didn't know how to drive. And I'm sure his family and friends would appreciate your help in driving instruction, since you must be so much better. And the best judgment so far: Any dumb@ss that thinks an SUV can handle high speeds is stupid. Yep, that's it - this guy is a stupid •••••••. That's the root of the problem! You figured it all out! Many of your comments amaze me. I thought you people were better than this. Again, I will chalk it up to you not being involved with life or death situations very often. I'll let you off with that excuse. However, if any of you said anything like this about some of the men I've known who have died, even due to their own mistakes, I'd kick your ass into next year. I'd kick your kids' asses. I'd kick your dog's ass. I'd dig up your dead ancestors and kick their asses...  | ||
| Vaneo1 |
paint shaker, sorry to disappoint you but it was none of your propsed above. Like I said its a feeling that I have if I had to bet on an alternate outcome. Really, its not worth initaitating any arguments on because it NEVER happened. Are you working with a full combo plate here or what? Its not fact so nothing more need be said, just go for a ride because I know Florida is NICE!! And if your ever in LA call me sometime, Id love to go for a ride with you. Maybe we can watch some of these reality shows you speak of afterwards.  | ||
| Vaneo1 |
Oh, you must have been involved with writing the training program for this officer.  Period! We know all the facts - this is the only logical conclusion! Thank you Dr. Clinical Psychiatrist - that's definitely a logical conclusion.  (a gift from the Dr. come see me sometime) Wow, who needs an investigation into an accident? We've got experts right here! Judge, jury, and executioner! I hope you never have a relative die due to a mistake or error in judgment on their part. And I'm sure his family and friends would appreciate your help in driving instruction, since you must be so much better. ahhh yep, that about sums up my argument ps."However, if any of you said anything like this about some of the men I've known who have died, even due to their own mistakes, I'd kick your ass into next year. I'd kick your kids' asses. I'd kick your dog's ass. I'd dig up your dead ancestors and kick their asses..." -spare the soldier talk, think of this as a place to relax with fellow Buellers so what if a few people have opposing opinions... (Message edited by vaneo1 on April 30, 2006) | ||
| Seanp |
How eloquent and mature. | ||
| Aldaytona |
Exactly what I was thinking after reading your last post.  | ||
| Lornce |
You guys are getting bogged down with peripherals. What's at stake here is legal precedent. It's always a tragedy when someone loses their life for no good reason. There's no doubt this was a pointless and tragic loss. However, the thing I'd be worried about if I lived in NY State is: Are all speeding violators now going to be charged with attempted manslaughter? That's not such an outrageous comment if you extrapolate the logic of the current charge. Having said that.... If the rider knowingly rode past the officer at 100mph while flipping him the bird.... THAT would be a whole different legal matter. | ||
| Jerry_haughton |
Lornce, i THINK the manslaughter law in NY as it pertains to cases like this has to do with whether an alleged traffic offender is evading pursuit, but i'm not sure. there is some question, apparently, as to whether the motorcyclist KNEW he was being pursued, and i suspect this specific issue will weigh heavily in his prosecution, and his defense. FB | ||
| Court |
An "SUV with a pursuit package". . . . now THERE is the definition of oxymoron. In fact. . . we may all be morons!  | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Al... I can't speak for NY Trooper training requirements, but I can for Florida. Troopers go to the basic academy for 26 weeks. Then they go through a 12 week Field Training Officer program with an experienced Trooper. Futher, they attend refresher training annually. But no training system is perfect. Vaneo, Sorry to hear you have such negative feelings about those who put their lives on the line everyday. Court, When Chevrolet discontinued the caprice, they introduced a 2 wheel drive tahoe police package which they claimed handled better than a caprice (Chevy claimed this in writing, I didn't make it up). I am not sure if they still offer this package. The non-police package SUVs or pick up trucks used in the police service that I have driven cut out around 99 MPH. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Guys.. I think this turned into the wrong direction. I for one respect cops and troopers, even the idiots. I allways call them sir and show respect. Its not so much if the trooper caused his own death by a stupid mistake. But the fact it could be anyone of us facing manslaughter charges!!!!! | ||
| Ryker77 |
And Sean.. I looked at your pic in the profile. I doubt you could kick anybodys anything. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Headlines from a similar case in Florida... "DAYTONA BEACH -- There were no winners in the courtroom Friday when Donald Williams was sentenced to 30 years in prison for causing the death of a state trooper during a chase in 2004, a judge said. "...Trooper Darryl Haywood, killed Oct. 2, 2004, when his cruiser, traveling at more than 100 mph, crashed into a car and then a tree on Interstate 4 while trying to stop Williams on a speeding motorcycle." "Throughout the trial, Williams denied that he ever knew the trooper was after him, in spite of witnesses who said they saw him look back as he sped by." Now, before you go ripping into Trooper Haywood's training, Trooper Haywood did not crash because he was driving in a reckless manner. The cause of his crash was due to a blown tire on his marked police pacakge camaro while he was attempting to do his job. Of note, ALL Troopers assigned the camaros receive additional training with the car. From the article about the NY Trooper, we do not know why he crashed. The article does not specify if the NY Trooper's crash was due to human error or mechancial failure. | ||
| Ryker77 |
If you know your being chased then, I agree with the charges and the outcome. Kids should be taught in school about the laws and the true effects. Hollywood BS shown on TV gives people FALSE outlooks. I also think cops should have the BEST cars, tires and training. My cop gym-buddy is driving a car with busted headlights-- they fog up in the rain and are faded yellow. Thats sad that his life is at risk in a unsafe car. But I also must question why are we allowed to ride 150-200mph bikes on the streets? Heck is 100mph not fast enough , on the street? | ||
| Aldaytona |
If I'm not mistaken Florida Highway Patrol has a non pursuit policy which was violated by Haywood causing his death, and if I'm not mistaken again Haywood was a NY cop/trooper before coming to Florida. Does that mean he was highly trained twice? | ||
| Paint_shaker |
Al, I am not trying to debate FHP policy. My point in posting the Trooper Haywood information was that a speeding motorcyclist caused the death of a Trooper. The motorcyclist was found guilty of manslaughter even though he claims he did not know a trooper was behind him. Which is what the article on the NY Trooper was about. | ||
| Aldaytona |
Paint_shaker, Trooper Haywood caused the death of Trooper Haywood. The only person who MADE Haywood do what he did was Haywood. At some point one has to take responsibility for their own actions. Period. | ||
| Paint_shaker |
AL... you are entitled to your opinion... However, apparently your fellow Daytonians don't think the same as you. They found the speeding motorcyclist guilty of causing Trooper Haywood's death and sentenced him to 30 years. Period. | ||
| Hattori_hanzo |
Unrelated yet just as tragic: http://www.azcentral.com/community/gilbert/articles/0430officerhit-ON.html Just remember there's always a huge loss in one of these events. I hope for the friends, families, and loved ones of the men who died doing there job that some of you would think twice of what you type on the internet. | ||
| Seanp |
Forget it. (Message edited by seanp on May 01, 2006) | ||
| Alanshouse |
What do you know about friends dying in the line of duty? You're in Kuwait. | ||
| Spreadem |
We're all morons Sean's going to beat our kids up Cops are stupid NY troopers have less than a month and a half of training Todeschini didn't know how to drive, was chasing the guy for fun and wanted to beat him up Haywood was a NY cop so he isn't capable of performing as a LEO either Did I get all the facts??? | ||
| Spreadem |
I smell some Trolls...  | ||
| Seanp |
Alanshouse - read your PM, and investigate a little before you start making accusations. Ryker - No comment. Everyone else, forget the ass-kicking comment. I was pissed about something else, and this was a good place to vent. I shouldn't be venting on something that doesn't involve me directly. And I apologize for being one of those Internet heros. It just really pisses me off... So, talk away, I'm not getting involved. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
SeanP, Stay safe. We have a number of Officers from here currently deployed and several anticipating deployment in the next moth or so. My family prays for the safety of all our soldiers. Regarding this thread... Here's my take on it: All LEO's go through a great deal of training. I had four months in classroom and out at pt plus six weeks "field training" under an experienced officer. That was to become "just" a corrections officer. I am required to complete 40+ hours of update training per year and additional hours for weapons training and any additional certifications I have picked up along the way. If I shot myself in the foot drawing my weapon on a suspect I would have gone against training and policy. Is the suspect responsible for my injury? In part I suppose, but I would think common sense would show the error was mine. This kid is probably the only one who knows if he was evading arrest. I suspect he was riding his sportbike fast in a rural area where he thought he would not do any harm (but that's just my opinion since I ride faster in rural areas). Unfortunately a young and enthusiastic trooper decided to give chase (What is the NYHP policy on high speed chase? Many agencies discourage these chases due to the risks involved). If the kid was unaware of the pursuit then the situation sounds like the jaywalker scenario presented by Spike when this page opened. I think charging the biker with manslaughter is a band-aid to help folks feel better about the death of the trooper who was apparently well liked. Sometimes honesty hurts. Folks should accept that, then they can heal and move on and try to learn something from the experience. Many politicians use tragedies like this to forward their own agendas. I hope this is not what is going on in this situation. Carncross's prev criminal history makes him an easier target. Rest in peace Craig Todeschini. Good luck James Carncross. I hope both justice and common sense can prevail. | ||
| Alanshouse |
Alanshouse - read your PM, and investigate a little before you start making accusations. Did you notice the question mark after the sentence? It was not an accusation. | ||
| Alanshouse |
Sean - Forget I said anything. That a subject I don't like brought up, and if I were to guess, you don't either. When mortars land close and wake you up, you tend to get up on the wrong side of the bed. Sorry. | ||
| Littlebuggles |
Alan, you and the rest stay safe too, I missed your profile. -Mike | ||
| Seanp |
Alan - No problem. Water under the bridge. |
