| Author | Message | ||
     Bomber |
Damn betcha!  | ||
| Buellbozo |
Still can't get that damn cat to quit crappin' in my boots! Does this make us Fabulous Furry Thread Hijackers?  | ||
| Bomber |
only if we fall over ;-} | ||
| Brucelee |
"A coworker, on an X1, was hit by an uninsured/unlicensed illegal alien a few years ago. He wasn’t hurt badly, so it could have been much worse, but it was a bad deal for him financially." This is a massive problem is CA. As usual, the compliant driver pays for the criminal.(It is a crime to drive in CA without insurance). However, we mostly all pay for additional coverage as an estimated 40% of all drivers here don't buy the coverage. Lawmakers can all go wink-wink, nod, nod know. | ||
| Ryker77 |
"I will repeat let as many Mexicans who want to come come in legally. They are good for the economy. " How would they be helpful? By keeping the middle class wages suppresed? By taking there check and wire transfer most of the funds back "home". Did you know that Mexico get more $$$$ transfered into that their gross domesitic product. Most of them are $ smart. So they live 20 to a house, buy used cars, or ride a bike, buy used clothes, etc etc. Very very little of there income is helpful to anybody other than those few who exploit the cheap/slave labors. | ||
| Sgthigg |
How come Mexico can keep theyre souther borders TIGHT!! But not the northern? | ||
| Mikej |
Mexico border tightness: 1. Who says their southern border is tight? 2. Who says they want or need to tighten their northern border? I'll say no more. | ||
| Blake |
Kilgore is well populated with a fair proportion of people with Mexican heritage, I'm sure some may even be illegal. They don't live 20 to a house and they don't take away any middle class wages that I can see. What I can see are very strong families who work hard to make a living and who add value to our community. Bigotry SUCKS! | ||
| Brucelee |
big·ot ( P ) Pronunciation Key (bgt) n. One who is strongly partial to one's own group, religion, race, or politics and is intolerant of those who differ. Given this definition, we likely ALL qualify! Having said that, I stand by my posts. This is NOT a race issue, it is a legal and moral issue. Either we are a nation of laws or we are not. If we do a THIRD round of amnesty after insisting the first two were the final ones, then we are dumber than I thought. Moreover, if this happens, my devotion to following the law is OUT THE WINDOW. Hey, twice is a mistake, three times in intentional! | ||
| Bomber |
Bruce -- I generally let posts like your last go on by, but, this time . . . . I would sincerely like to think that I DON'T qualify -- preferences are one thing, intolerance of those who differ is another, I believe | ||
| Blake |
What Bomber said. Millions of folks break the law every day in this country. Speed limits are law. Stop illegal accelleration! | ||
| Blake |
What Bomber said. Millions of folks break the law every day in this country. Speed limits are law. Speeders kill and maim and cause destruction of property all over the nation! Stop illegal acceleration! | ||
| Brucelee |
Let me elaborate. Based on this definition, most of us would be "intolerant" if one uses a liberal definition of that term. For example, many believe that if one does not openly accept another's viewpoint they are being intolerant of that individual. I personally don't ascribe that to you or frankly, to me. I believe that some viewpoints are silly and asinine and am willing to say so. To some, that makes me a bigot. So be it. Nothing directed your way Bomber! | ||
| Brucelee |
"Millions of folks break the law every day in this country. Speed limits are law" Indeed, this is true and I for one, do speed from time to time. The difference is when and if I get caught, I don't whine and plead that somehow, this law should not apply to me. I simply shut the f... up and pay the ticket. If you can't do the time, don't do the crime! But, hey, WE are special!!!!!!!!!!!! | ||
| Bomber |
Bruce - no offence taken -- I agree that many opinions that many folks hold (including some that I have held) are silly and asinine. I guess the difference between us is that I've decided not to try changing any of those other's minds -- they likely feel their opinions are well-thought-out, are in line with their experience and world view, and that I, since I disagree with them, am silly and asinine. {grin} I especially try to avoid changin minds on the internet {bigger grin} now, I firmly believe we are all of us prejudiced in some manner (or many manners) -- that doesn't count, I believe -- what goes on in your head is your own business, it's how you act/speak that counts (sorta like being scared, but doing the right thing anyways, if I am making sense) | ||
| Blake |
I bet many illegal immigrants do the same(not complain when caught). While plenty of speeders who are caught do indeed whine and complain. Ryker's comment is the one that offended me and brought out my appraisal of bigotry. Not sure anyone misunderstand the meaning of the word like you imagine. "Bigot" is a strong word with a very negative connotation. | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Kilgore is well populated with a fair proportion of people with Mexican heritage, I'm sure some may even be illegal. They don't live 20 to a house and they don't take away any middle class wages that I can see. What I can see are very strong families who work hard to make a living and who add value to our community. Bigotry SUCKS! If you take a look I called them SMART for doing what they do. Nothing negative about it. It's $$$ smart and better for the environment to live as many people is a house as is possible. I agree that they are strong and hard working. I disagree that they and ANY VALUE. Calling me a bigot.??? But if you call me a bigot doesn't that make you a bigot towards me? I can and will prove to you that immigration has hurt middle class wages. (Message edited by ryker77 on April 05, 2006) | ||
| Ryker77 |
"Millions of folks break the law every day in this country. Speed limits are law. Speeders kill and maim and cause destruction of property all over the nation! " So child molestors, murders, credit fraud, ID theft, etc etc. We should all just look the other way. Breaking the law is just that. were do you draw the line? | ||
| Brucelee |
The rule of law is essential for a just and orderly society. BTW-by report they DO NOT have a rule of law in Mexico! That is a telling fact, I would submit. Hey, we had a half million in the streets last week talking about immigrant rights. What rights are they talking about? To my way of thinking, I have zero rights if I sneak into Mexico illegally. Why is the reciprocal OK? Where are these immigration rights that you speak of? | ||
| Roc |
I encourage anyone with any interest in the issue to read this brief history about Mexican labors in the US - http://home.sandiego.edu/~jcornejo/HTML/bracero.htm I think globalization and illegal immigration are the 1-2 punch for middleclass America. Globalization is relatively vague and not actionable, so illegal immigration gets the brunt of the public outcry. Further, I think the public sentiment against illegal immigration is a reflection of the economic success they realize and the political power they are gaining. | ||
| Cowboy |
Roc. You are right about political power,they have and will continue to vote in a block and our politicans will continue to give them what they want for thier support until we are finaly consumed. then watch your tax $$$$ zip by. I think it is to damn late already.(legal or illegal your choice) | ||
| Ryker77 |
Blake, For instance, a study by Harvard professor Dr. George J. Borjas finds that, by increasing the supply of labor, immigration between 1980 and 2000 cost native-born American men an average $1,700 in annual wages by the year 2000. However, the effects of immigration on wages were most profoundly felt by native-born black and Hispanic Americans who suffered 4.5-5% wage reductions as compared with the 3.5% wage loss felt by native-born white Americans. You see all were doing it hurting those he need the most help. Black and Hispanic LEGAL AMERICAN's suffered wage loss. We should take care of our own first. there are more solid stats posted on page 2 of this thread. Those stats PROVE that immigration has hurt middle and lower class Americans. People like you, me and our childeren. | ||
| Blake |
Same old tired rationale used when the Irish flooded into NYC, or then the Italians did, or then the Peurto Ricans did... Always the same bullshit. Always someone who can find an academic to support their views. Wages are subject to the same pressures and dynamics of the free market as everything else. Higher wages mean less competitively priced products, which means more jobs go to places and people who are willing to work for lower wages. What would you rather have, a few imigrants willing to work for lower wages, or a bunch of farms and corporations shutting down operations in America due to their inability to compete with the competition? Labor is a free market. Try to control it and you have... communism at worst, socialism at best. Neither is desirable in my view. I know too many tradesmen and skilled laborers who do very well for themselves to buy into the gloom and doom erosion of workers wages rational. It certainly ain't affecting middle class income in any significant way. Unskilled farm laborers are not middle class folk. | ||
| Blake |
Here's one for you... How did slavery affect middle class American income? We prospered under slavery. We can prosper under continued immigration too. Just need to address the issue to make it legal and above board is all. I do agree that being able to speak English should be a requirement to legal immigration. It is absolutely in our nation's best interest to have a population united in language. | ||
| Brucelee |
The key distinction here is that if you have border control and eliminate illegal immigration, you can have a rational debate and discuss policy as to why we have immigration, what kind, who, and how many etc? Without this, the conversion is a joke. Why debate a policy when you have no chance to implement it? Specific to those who would have unfettered immigration to the US, I ask this hypothetical: Would you allow every AIDS infected person in the world to walk into the US and expect to have their care paid for, enroll in Medicaid and Medicare etc.? If the answer is no, you are for a sane legal immigration policy that HAS to include border control. If the answer is yes, I question your ability to live in the world as we know it. Or, you are Ted Kennedy posting here as a Buell rider! | ||
| Bomber |
while illegal workers (defined broadly to include those that do work "off the books," without paying taxes -- sound familiar?) may, in fact, have a negative impact on middle-class wages (one can manipulate figures to proove anything), there is an equally persuasive argument that states that immigrants CREATED the middle class by taking the lower paying jobs, displacing the previously lowest paid workers upwards on the wage scale, now that they could afford the products of the now lowest tier of wage earners actually, the days of prosperity due to slavery were brief, and limited to a very small portion of the country -- those days were also gone by the time the Civil War started, ironically enough -- if either side ha held there water for another ten years or so, slavery would likely have disappeared under the weight of it's own lack of reasonable ROI I'm of the opinion that anyone that wants to jump through the appropriate hoops, and has enough income to keep em off the dole should be welcome -- if I, personnaly, can't compete with em in the job market, that's my lack | ||
| Blake |
Pretty sure you are okay for now. At least until you cease to look like Peter Egan. Then you might be in trouble. Who is proposing "unfettered imigration"?  | ||
| Bomber |
Blake -- unless Egan comes to his senses and stops shaving (who in their right mind seeks out the sharpest tool in the house and scrapes their face with it immediately upon rising in the morning, I ask ya?), we've already taken divergent paths ;-} only ones I've heard proposing unlimited imigration are some of the illegals and the Mexican government (which would make me wonder what kind of government I had, were I Mexcian) | ||
| Buellgrrrl |
Blake is right. In the past week UPS has called me 3 times, trying to convince me that I should interupt my retirement to drive truck for them. They're offering $18 an hour for this semi skilled work, and it looks like as long as I have a CDL I can find living wage work. I hear similar stories from mechanics- there is a shortage of skilled tradespeople nationwide and there's no shortage of good paying jobs. Meanwhile, untrained workers are stuck earning minimum wage at WalMart, etc. | ||
| Midknyte |
The whole immigration argument is so sadly moot. It would be so vastly different, and valid, if just the laws on the books right now, were enforced... |
