| Author | Message | ||
     Panic |
I'm going to ask to become a Mexican citizen so I don't have to pay taxes, obey any laws, can't be arrested or deported or answer any questions. The entire discussion is pointless, because B isn't going to go back on whatever deal he made to make this go through - get used to it. In 5 years California, New Mexico, Arizona, Colorado, Texas and Florida will have hispanic governors. Jeb already brags about his latino family - his wife (the smuggler) and children (the shoplifting prescription-forging crack-head, and the thug) are "brown". Next step: spanish becomes mandatory in schools, then official bi-lingual status (like Canada). No english-speakers or caucasians need apply. All immigration from the orient, africa and europe stops - they won't make the same mistake we did. Will we wake up in time? No. | ||
| Ducxl |
Shut the border down hard is the ONLY solution.We just can't deport MILLIONS of Illegals.Contrary to some of my posts,some of my Latino/Latina friends at the machine shop where i'm employed are illegal,and i consider them friends.We have great difficulty exchanging words and i can always get someone to translate for me.One friend,a Dominican,also rides,although/w no license/insurance.He means well,but just will never have the OPPORTUNITY I/we have.I can remember my own "poor" Italian immigrant ancestors. My mother only made it to 5th grade before having to work along/w her 16 other siblings.Give 'em a couple generations and they'll assimilate.We must get our borders under control though | ||
| Brucelee |
"Contrary to some of my posts,some of my Latino/Latina friends at the machine shop where i'm employed are illegal,and i consider them friends" Of course, this has nothing to do with whether illegals are "nice" or your friends. Nor, why they illegally entered the US, nor what work they are doing. Some illegals are out and out gang bangers and killers and some are nice folks. This is not relevant. This has to do with their being criminals and remaining criminals. There are some nice folks in US jails. They are all friends of somebody. Should we open up the jail cells based on this logic? I don't think so. In regards to past immigration, if my mother has entered into the country illegally, she should have been caught and deported. Fortunately, she entered legally, like most of our ancestors. Lets keep it simple, a country that rewards illegal behavior gets more of it, not less. | ||
| Ryker77 |
30% of all the people in jail are NOT Americans. Costing the local, state and federal governmnets $ 3,000,000 per DAY Don't forget that years prior we were NOT a welfare nation. Those who came to the US prior to the mid 1900's. Did NOT get any governement $$$$$$. Also years priors those that came legal or illegal did NOT FRAUD welfare, food stamps, insurance, credit card, even post office. Fake ID's Fake drivers license, Fake insurance, Fake names on Credit cards. as noted by "One friend,a Dominican,also rides,although/w no license/insurance." But he "means well". That will not pay for an accidents. | ||
| Pupu |
i think they should just stop people on the street and ask for ID, not ID you to to a "place" where you have to prove you are legal, if you cant do that, then you are on the next truck back. i have hated this problem forever, and now that they want to finally do something about it, it is all wrong and wont work. i mean hell, they can just go to any local home depot and pick up 100 illegals every morning, do that all over california and you can clean up pretty quick. the fact that i have to work with people that can not even tell me what is wrong with their machine ( i am a mechanic ), chaps my a$$. the fact that the dmv has the test in like 20 languages and has 5 different translaters at any given time boggles my mind. and the fact that a illegal can get hurt on the job that some chucklehead hired him to do and sue for workmans comp-and win-is just beyond me there is only one solution, and that is just stop them on the street and ship them back, and find someway to lock up the border. the way they are gonna do it, just grants them permission to be here and rape our country. and if americans wont do $hitty jobs like pick vegetable and stuff. do something with welfare and take all those people with food stamps and bmw cars and put them to work. there is no nice way to do this, just do, it will be a mess for a couple of years and then even out. what they want to do now will not work and take to long to even make a difference. but at least i am not bitter!! | ||
| Brucelee |
I have been emailing my Senators, Congressman and the President on this issue. Some of us "normal guys" need to make ourselves heard over the din of all the mexican flag waving. Whose country is this again, V. Fox's or ours? | ||
| Panic |
"just stop them on the street and ship them back" Slightly more expensive, but cost-effective: don't ship them back to Mexico. Ship them to India, and you only have to do it once. Try walking back now. How to find more at one time - saves work: Stage another ralley - and arrest everyone with a Mexican flag. Let's also divide up the opinions: 1. those who say they can't be deported have to pay for them to live here forever. Let's begin by doubling your taxes. 2. those who want them deported only have to pay for the deportation. Deport them a second time? No, pay Singapore/Peru/Nigeria to keep them in jail at $1.50 a day. | ||
| Superbee24 |
Why all the anger towards the Mexicans? A vast majority of the Illegals coming from the southern borders are what the US Border Patrol and Protection Division call OTM's ( Other than Mexicans) Hondorans,Salvadoran,Chileans, etc. WHen Mexicans get caught they are deported. When OTM's ( also joking know as EXOTICS to the Border Patrol ) are caught their information is taken down. They have to give a phone number which the Border Patrol calls. If someone answers the phone they are given a court date and free reign of the US until that court day appears. As you may have well guessed, most do no show up to their court date and are then "Illegal" until they happen to be caught. These are facts not "well I heard" info. Check the national statistics not hearsay and you will see that the majority of welfare recipients nationwide are not Hispanics but rather White. Again just facts. If you really want to stop immigration, make it a felony to HIRE an illegal and then actually ENFORCE the rule. If there are no jobs for illegals do you think they would come here? Me, I was born in Mexico, Immigrated legally ( green card ) in 1965, Migrant farm worker from age 10-18, Spent 4 years in the US ARMY INFANTRY including Korea and 1.5 years with the 101st Airborne. Became a US Citizen AFTER serving in the military and have been a FIrefighter for over 13 years. Public service for over 17 years now. What have YOU done for MY country? (Message edited by superbee24 on April 03, 2006) (Message edited by superbee24 on April 03, 2006) (Message edited by superbee24 on April 03, 2006) | ||
| Brucelee |
I have no issue with any legal immigrant from any country of origin. I have an issue with ALL illegals from any country. And thank you for your service record. | ||
| Bomber |
Superbee -- thanks for adding your energy to my country -- You raise a great point -- much like "gun control" and the "war on drugs," where laws are added upon laws upon laws, the tools to address the problems are already on the books -- all that's needed is too enforce them I was asked, during a conversation about this isuse over the weekend, how much I would pay for a head of lettuce if all the workers involved in their harvest were being paid a living/legal wage. My answer was, I dunno, but I'll bet that lettuce producers would figure out a way to get their crop to market in an affordable manner if the public wasn't willing to pay $5 a head, or whatever would be charged if illegal labor was not available I'll not share the thoughts shared with me over the weekend by a south-of-the-border born friend who came here legally, worked hard, and got their citizenship through the normal, slow, expensive, and legal channels -- way too rough a series of statements to expose you gentle reads to (who knew a 4'11" lady could talk like that?) rounding up 11 or 12 million people and deporting them isn't a doable plan -- I HOPE the House knew that when they proposed it -- I hope they were simply trying to force the issue and generate debate me, I don't want to live in a huge gated community, but the country DOES have a right to control it's borders, and to choose, like every other sovereign state, who it allows to come here | ||
| Mikej |
Minor nit to pick: Change "who it allows to come here" to "decide who it chooses to exclude". The former sort of sounds like "by invitation only", the latter, to me at least, reads " come one come all who choose to enter legally for legitimate purpose to share in this thing we call Liberty". Just a minor thing, but it reads better to me. And it's not the size of the dog in the fight, it's the size of the fight in the dog that counts. | ||
| Panic |
"A vast majority of the Illegals coming from the southern borders are what the US Border Patrol and Protection Division call OTM's ( Other than Mexicans)." Absolutely not. Mexican illegals outnumber all others by at least 3-1. What have YOU done for MY country? By "my country", I assume you mean the United States? Veteran, voter, taxpayer, citizen. | ||
| Cowboy |
I just dont like carring the heavy end of stick, if you are going to break one law hell just break them all.what happens if we stop paying taxes. ride our bikes as fast as we feel like,live on food stamps stop paying med. exp. ect. ect. | ||
| Bomber |
That was the original idea, wasn't it? Freedom? Not MORE MONEY? Panic -- er, to present an alternate view, read any one of a number of works on the "Founding Fathers." Most were moved to rebel against England (the legal government at the time) for a variety of reaons, and fiscal was far from the least of these reasons -- Washington had a beef about land he thought was due him from his service during the French and Indian War, Jefferson wanted fewer taxes and the chance to vote on them, as he considered a tax to protect his home represive, anf Franklin was against independance til late in the party, but changed when he saw the wind blowing against him -- while these folks, and others, certainly did Great Work in founding the country, to think they were only acting from lofty ideals is, at least in part, in error (BTW -- Tom Paine, the rabble rouser, is pretty much considered to have been clinically insane while he was rousing the rabble) in talking to my Grandparents (who left the home country in something less than entirely honorable circumstances {smile}), fiscal betterment was one of the prime reaons for coming to this country -- of course, "Freedon" generally allows one to better their financial straights, or, at least, allows for hte opportunity, but I would submit that the two (that is, freedom and the chance to earn a better living) were pretty much tied together for many immigrants -- then, and now ain't history fun? | ||
| Skyguy |
Shut down the borders! By ANY means nesecary. We can then figure out how to deal with the "existing" illegals. If 20% of Americans refused to file taxes because of the open border issue. The border would be closed quickly. The only way left to vote is with your wallets. Nearly 50% of Californa is OK with the illegal immigrants. My aunt was a legal Mexican immigrant and she despises illegals. | ||
| Brucelee |
If the illegal immigrants do not have to pay income tax and can stand on the corner and not be picked up by the cops, why in the hell should I pay income tax? If illegal behaviour can be retroactively defined as legal, how can the law be respected? Does the law only apply to those who would voluntarily comply with it? If so, I will stop volunteering. If enough "normal everyday" citizens started to simply obey the laws they like to obey, well, life would be very different here in the US. Illegal is illegal. How tough is this to understand? Using the "only seeking a better life" argument applies to the embezzler and thief too. Drug dealer also. How is this any different? | ||
| Davegess |
I say, let more people in legally. If a million can come and find jobs then let 'em come. They will prove to add more value to our economy than just about any other group you coul dimagine. They will work impossibly hard, at the jobs none of us 'Mericans will do, educate their children and grow our economy explosively. Make it easy to be a legal and the illegals will go away. Spend the money we now spend on unsucessfully keeping them out on screening for terrorists and let the rest in. My ancestors were regarded as stupid, drunken, lazy, criminal and we proved 'em wrong. Most of your ancestors where regarded the same way. | ||
| Skyguy |
BruceLee, Filing taxes is a violation of your fifth amendment rights. It clearly states that no citizen is required to provide the goverment any document that can be used against them in a court of law. When you file you do so under penalty of perjury. This does not exempt you from paying taxes if billed though. Years ago I gave the I.R.S. a certified letter giving them permission to file for me. If they ever send me a bill I will pay it. Been 13 years now....................still waiting for a bill. Every two years I have a tax attorney check my status with the I.R.S. and to date they have had no issues. Vote with your wallet this tax season. BTW if they went to a flat tax system with no exemptions for anyone or any corporation I would comply. When I was fileing I spent 57% of my income on taxes and mandatory monies due the goverment. I call B.S. The Swiss pay half straight up and have awesome health care, public transportation and many benefits of being a citizen. I know several very wealthy people and they brag that due to being able to afford to "play the game" they pay an average of 6% a year. I love my country but hate the B.S. games that allow the wealthy to dump on us middle class folks. Americans could stand up on tax day and demand the system change to a flat tax. Or for that matter demand to close our borders. They won't though. It kills me how it only took 200 years for Americans to lose their fight for what is right and become sheep.  | ||
| Ryker77 |
Superbee, Why all the anger towards the Mexicans? A vast majority of the Illegals coming from the southern borders are what the US Border Patrol and Protection Division call OTM's ( Other than Mexicans) Hondorans,Salvadoran,Chileans, etc. Thats a lie. nearly 50% are Mexicans, over 20% of from other south American countries. Check the national statistics not hearsay and you will see that the majority of welfare recipients nationwide are not Hispanics but rather White. Again just facts. 5 BILLION American tax payer dollars go to illegals. Yes there are many legal Americans on the welfare system. However the pay taxes and follow the laws. They keep that money in America. Mexico's get more $$$$ wire transfered that the GDP. That money comes from American tax payers. | ||
| Ryker77 |
For instance, a study by Harvard professor Dr. George J. Borjas finds that, by increasing the supply of labor, immigration between 1980 and 2000 cost native-born American men an average $1,700 in annual wages by the year 2000. However, the effects of immigration on wages were most profoundly felt by native-born black and Hispanic Americans who suffered 4.5-5% wage reductions as compared with the 3.5% wage loss felt by native-born white Americans. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Real wages in the US are falling at their fastest rate in 14 years. (Financial Times, May 10, 2005) 14 million Americans are unable to find full-time jobs in the current economy. [Bureau of Labor Statistics (BLS)] Jobs Americans Won’t Do? • 79 percent of the 23 million workers in service jobs are native-born Americans. • 81 percent of the 6 million workers in construction jobs are native-born Americans. • 77 percent of the 10 million workers in production jobs are native-born Americans. http://www.cis.org/articles/2005/back205.html Among the report’s findings: In 2002, the net loss to U.S. natives from immigration was $68 billion. This $68 billion annual loss represents a $14 billion increase just since 1998. As the size of the immigrant population has continued to increase, so has the loss. The decline in wages is relative to the price of goods and services, so the study takes into account any change in consumer prices brought about by immigration. The negative effect comes from increases in the supply of labor and not the legal status of immigrants. While natives lose from immigration, the findings show that immigrants themselves benefit substantially by coming to America. Those who remain behind in their home countries also benefit from the migration of their countrymen. | ||
| Ryker77 |
http://www.numbersusa.com/PDFs/Northeasternforeignlaborimpactstudy.pdf University's study shows NOT ONE net new job created for a US worker between 2000-2004 | ||
| Bomber |
OK, gents -- good statistics there -- now comes the tough part how much are you willing to pay for a Big Mac or a head of lettuce (see above)? Mrs Gess -- in the case of my family, three outa four (on some days) ain't bad! | ||
| Cowboy |
Now that most evry one geathers thier openions from the TV or news papers,let me tell you how it realy is I try to be self sufficent but as a small rancher and farmer I need help on ocasion, when I approach the un employed on street corner I get this for a ans. I would like to help you mister but I could lose my welfare check. | ||
| Skyguy |
Bomber, McDonalds could go out of business and it would be OK with me. I am unwilling to eat anything from there so let them charge what they want. As for lettuce grow your own. Wish I could grow my own gasoline. Maybe if our beloved corporations were to stop outsourcing American jobs it would be easier to afford lettuce. | ||
| Bomber |
Wow, Sky -- OK, nix Big Max -- fill in the service industry of your choice, then ;-} maybe of our beloved investors (read,most americans with a 401k, retirement fund, any investment at all) were to stop expecting double digit growth in their investments, our beloved corporatations wouldn't be outsourcing jobs . . . . . you are certainly entitled to your opinion, but I think you're point has gone somewhat far afield from the issue of Illegal immigration, hasn't it? | ||
| Brucelee |
Lets keep issues distinct here. You cannot have a same legal immigration policy if you don't control the border. How hard is this to figure out. If you stop illegal immigration, you can debate how many legal immigrants should be allowed to enter the US. Without border control the discussion is a farce. Then, you need to decide how you will treat the 11 million criminals that snuck into the US. If you give them a pass, as was done in 1966 and 1986, what do you think will happen? Duh, the same as it ever was. These arguments on the economics are really relevent to the legal immigration side. We can debate that one all night long but it only matters if you stop the criminals from crawling over and under the border. Make sense? | ||
| Panic |
"If they ever send me a bill I will pay it. Been 13 years now....................still waiting for a bill. Every two years I have a tax attorney check my status with the I.R.S. and to date they have had no issues." You mean that none of the sources of your income (who listed money paid to you as a deduction) have been audited and the IRS disputed them - and will look to your return to see matching data? That's the only way failure to report is dangerous: 1. the payer is audited, and 2. their claim of your compensation is challenged. I hope your "tax attorney" has informed you that (despite your argument) your failure to pay tax merely means that all your tax liability has been satisfied by withholding? And that if you have any other source of income (dividends, self-employment, capital gain, interest, real property, commission, independent contractor) which reports but does not withhold you owe the IRS a huge amount of money, plus penalties, interest and possible jail sentence? Use of the 5th Amendment as a defense against reporting income hasn't worked since Al Capone used it - and he went to jail. | ||
| Skyguy |
Yeah I get off on my own little rants sometimes lol. Close the borders! Panic, Not filing is not without risk. But it has been working so far. I also survived a State tax audit last year. Not without a bill though. I am lucky enough to live a mostly cash existence but don't own a house. I live in an RV and don't pay rent either. All that is about to change though. Just got a big shiny house given to me and I am moving my balloon business to Coloma soon and plan on staying there until I am old. So I am going to have to play the stinking game. Been a nice 13 years though...... | ||
| Mikej |
Coloma is a nice area, lots of nice bike roads around there. Be a little carefull where you land your balloon in those hills though, there's a bit of pseudo-escapism and cat-n-mouse folks who don't like people "dropping" in on them or looking into their backyards. You should do well though advertising to the people in Sacramento and Davis and points west of there. Plus if it's allowable and you can manage the mountain currents it'd be neat to do a balloon trip over Yosemite and Donner and Tahoe, or down over the valley between Sac and SanFran. Shoot, you could do a gambling junket flight, pick up your customers in Auburn and drop them off in Reno. I don't know what this has to do with immigration, but it's good news in a way for you. Have a good flight Skyguy. We expect pictures. Okay, back to immigration and other assorted issues. |
