| Author | Message | ||
     Jlnance |
Found this article in the paper this morning. http://www.newsobserver.com/102/story/396791.html It contains the word Buell, so I though it was worth posting :-) | ||
| Rubberdown |
Good Morning Jim. | ||
| Seanp |
The real pisser is that if the service member is not wearing all of the gear mandated by the regulations, their survivors may not receive any benefits. The Army requires that you have the following any time you ride a motorcycle: DOT Approved helmet Eye protection (either sunglasses or a full face helmet) Long sleeves Long Pants Gloves Over-the-ankle boots Bright colors during the day, and something reflective at night I know so many guys that ride on post with their gear, and then stop 100 meters outside the gate and take half the stuff off. I always wear the gear, even if I am just running to the store a mile away. I've got an Aerostich for the cooler months and a kevlar mesh jacket and pants that I wear in the summer - yeah, it's hotter than if I were in just shorts and a t-shirt, but I'm sort of attached to my skin and want to keep it. And, like I mentioned, if I die in a motorcycle accident and it's found that I didn't have on all the required gear, my wife might not get a single penny of benefits. That would be a huge slap in her face for my stupidity. | ||
| Jlnance |
Good morning Mike | ||
| U4euh |
Good MOrning Fella's! True about the regulations. When I had to take the MOPS test on Ft Sam Houston, they drilled that point in, although at the time I was a dependant of my father, they still made it stick. | ||
| Odie |
My Ex was a casualty assistance clerk for years. She made sure survivors received their cash from SGLI, death gratuity, etc. You WILL get your cash. Regardless of what the propaganda machine puts out. Two of my biggest complaints about the short-sightedness of the Army after 21 years in and riding for all of them is 1) If you are going to require me to wear long sleeves just for the sake of wearing long sleeves what good is it really doing? I could wear a silk shirt that wouldn't protect me from a large June bug hitting me but it meets the letter of the law as far as going thru the gate every day. Make riders wear actual protective clothing that is worth a crap. 2) How come all of the safety issues regarding motorcycle accidents are directed towards motorcyclists? Here in Alabama maybe 5% of the whole state can drive worth a crap. Motorists are out there just like we are and couldn't care less about "that little ol' motorbike that will stop or get out of the way cuz I'm bigger......" | ||
| Chainsaw |
I read something a while back that said 25% of all MC riders are veterans. That means 1 in 4 bikers have been trained to kill. Maybe broadcasting that tidbit to the general public would make them drive a bit more respectfully around us.  | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Odie, Bingo! I thought, very shortsighted of me, that the regs at Bragg/Meade/Devens/HAAF/Bliss were off the hook -- yea, right, then I got a instructor gig on a Navy base (NTTC Corry) and them cats were over the freaking top. It was easier, much easier, to just stay in USAREUR for 14+ years,,,plus the gear shops (www.louis.de) was so much better and the riding style (WAO) pretty much fit the program much better. We need to talk someday,,,,we had to cross paths somewhere along the line,,,not that many of 'us' floating about. G2 | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Jim, heard the same BS when I was at Ft. Ord. And always suspected the threat was not enforcable...Thanks Odie for setting it strait. Odie...so true about the gear...we had to wear a reflective belt, day or night. Never a mention of good gloves...GI Issue were fine, or real protective gear. They did say we could not use our steel pots, or kevlar's or flight helmets though...however there was this time with NVG's and a SPH4....he he he...  | ||
| Bigdaddy |
VV, SPH4? You're showing your age :-) Third generation NVG's, I *think* the nomenclature was AN/PVS-6 (but I do have tendencies to forge that stuff) were much fun when indulging in adult beverages while watching the Soviet threat. Good memories,,,,you Helo guys got all the good stuff. G2 | ||
| Buellin_ri |
I never wear my reflective belt.  | ||
| Seanp |
Odie - I never really believed they could withhold money that's rightfully your family's. I am my BN's safety Naz...er officer. I was just at a safety conference a week ago, and General Whitcomb told us the same thing about losing the death benefits, (but he related it to not wearing a seat belt while driving on the lovely Kuwaiti highways.) What I do know is that if I can get my guys to wear some gear by telling them that their kid isn't going to get to go to college because their widowed mom can't afford it, I will tell them that. And I will continue to set the example by wearing the proper gear all the time, and telling people about how great my 'Stich is, and how nice it is to have a full-face helmet, etc. But I honestly don't know how the Army could mandate actual safety gear. The only type of safety gear that's really standardized is helmets, (DOT, Snell, etc.) and maybe armour, (CE, etc.) But I don't know of any type of standardization for gloves, boots, jackets, or pants. So how could the Army enforce anything specific? Look at all of the propaganda about wearing proper gear when you ride that's put out by MSF, etc., and see how much people listen to that. People don't care about their own skin/heads/lives. But if you mess with their money, they listen. It takes a mature person to wear ATGATT, and most of the joes I know who got bikes or are getting bikes when we get home are not mature people. But they know the value of money... Hell, most people I see riding anywhere, (joes or civilians) don't wear the proper gear. As a matter of fact, I was watching a God-awful AFN commercial with the Teutels telling us all to "slow down and ride safe" and how often do those guys ride on their show with anything other than a little crappy half helmet, some jeans, and a muscle shirt? It's crap... /rant (Message edited by seanp on February 05, 2006) | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
I teach MSF on base. I agree that some of the rules seem dumb, but because of my rank I follow them to set the example, when I was a troop, probably no chance. Sad but true that most of the time it has to do with what's cool or not. With a little research I learned that the groaners had no gripe. The long sleeve requirement has little to do with fall protection and more to do with sun/wind/dehydration protection, no matter what your command tells you. They are making changes for the better though. I agree that it's foolish to allow someone to ride in a silk shirt or a flight suit and call it OK but if a rider puts on good protection they're out of uniform...that has changed. You may now wear any rider gear with uniform so long as you remove it as soon as you get off your bike. At least for Marines anyway... Make sure you check with your local commands though as many policies are up to local commanders. This, to me, is the drawback. The policy needs to be set, service wide. As for not paying claims, for the most part it is propaganda; but why would you not wear something that may protect you, and against superior orders? Ask yourself that. (Message edited by charlieboy6649 on February 06, 2006) | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
As far as not being able to mandate gear, all they really have to do is put it into an order, which they have. DODI 6055.4, DOD TRAFFIC SAFETY PROGRAM. AR 385-55, ARMY OPNAVINST 5100.12G NAVY MCO 5100.19D MARINE CORPS As I said above though, the orders do contradict each other and need to be standardized. One example is the DOD order says retro reflective (which could mean the MSF reflective green on black). The MC order specifically states lime green or florescent orange. | ||
| Sgthigg |
When I was at New River in 02 we had a gunny 2 months from retirement get killed on his bike right outside the gate near camp johnson. He was not wearing any Protective Equipment. He was even wearing a open face helmet. His family still got SGLI benefits. Its definetly propoganda, My wife worked at lejeune and had to deal with SGLI claims quite often in 03. They all get paid usually. I agree with 6649, wear it if your smart. And always set the example. Here at Keesler theyre a joke on base I see people on cruisers wearing open face helmets, t shirts you pretty much name it. Especially since they went to civilan security. | ||
| Chasespeed |
Well, after my wreck last summer, I gave my jacket, helmet, and gloves to my Cheif. He is our Motorcycle safety Liason. He has had a blast showing people the "value" of gear. The front of the helemt is trashed, the whole left side of the jacket, and both gloves. Well, a couple of guys actually went out and spent a little money after that. Me personally, I have had road rash too many times, NOT to wear gear...I konw, once is too many...but, its been more times than I care to admit.... So, I always wear my stuff...so does everyone I ride with, EXCEPT the squids, that think that riding is gonna get them some... My 2 cents Chase | ||
| Ryker77 |
I left New River (MWSS272, HMM261, H&HS) back in 2001.. Used to ride on base with a halfshell helment non dot approved with the orange road vest. Actually thought the road vest was a good safety item. BTW--- I crashed my first Buell-- t-boned a grey hair at 45mph. NO saftey gear and a half shell helmet. Very very minor roadrash on one knee and part of my back. Not even a scratch on the helmet. Actaully think a big real helmet might have broke my neck... Despite all that. I know use a DOT 3/4 helmet, leather riding jacket with elbow and back pads. leather riding boots, and on long rides --leather/mesh paints. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Big Daddy...SPF4 were was the name for the Cobra flight helmet..you are correct about the APVS-5's and 6's...good stuff??!! boy is that a debatable comment!  | ||
| Charlieboy6649 |
Chase, We do the same. We've collected quite a few pieces of gear from get-offs and pics of the protection, or not if there was no gear. The point was that gear will not make you superman, you'll still get banged up, but you'll have a little more skin and possibly your life than otherwise. I think the tactic works. You only need to see facial reconstructive surgery once to opt for a full face helmet. | ||
| Cataract2 |
When I crashed bad back in March 2004 it was my gear (full face helmet, jacket, gloves, long pants, over ankle boots) that saved me a lot of work. I came out with only a broken wrist and elbow. Not bad. The paramedics were telling me about a guy who crashed without any gear and how he was going to need some serious work. He didn't have a helmet on. |
