| Author | Message | ||
     Newfie_buell |
This has become very interesting? | ||
| Newfie_buell |
I think the Human Race at its lowest level is very barbaric and will resort to may different things. Some are more barbaric than others but basically we are all the same. Some cultures have evolved to a higher level than others. | ||
| Lowflyer |
Yup. These are symptoms of the disease called humanity. | ||
| Ghostrider |
Ghostrider says its the Unions fault, if you have such a problem with people making a living wage why don't you go to China and work along side them and earn what they earn. Let's look at this, Pro Athlete's making millions, CEO's making millions, etc... etc... What do you think a union garment worker makes in the U.S.A. Did they drive their jobs overseas and to Mexico cause they earned 8-12 dollars an hour? No the stock holders demanding higher returns no matter the consequences. How about safety on the job, will your Job kill you Ghostrider?? Do you think the Mine workers in West Virginia agree with you?? OSHA did not protect them!! You make my argument for me. How much does a pro athlete make? Let's ask his union! What about movie stars? Union. Safety? Yes, my job has been life threatening, thank you. I've worked doing armed security for years while making less than $10/hr. Then I got a college degree. I've never been in a union. I negotiate my own wage and my own benefits. I don't need some slacker making the same pay and benefits as I do just because he's in and connected. West Viginia miners not protected by OSHA? Hmm...doesn't seem that their union protected them either, now does it? As someone who has become quite the safety professional over the past few years, I can tell you that OSHA does a good job overall. I'm not saying unions don't have their place. Unfortunately, I think their place was 1920. Perhaps the unions should go to El Salvador and start looking out for the interests of underpaid workers in the unsafe sweatshops there. All they do here is jack up the price. It seems that the unions feel that they have to continue to exist despite no longer having a reason to. Sad, really. | ||
| Blake |
Lots of folks apparently prefer to make excuses for the vile acts of others. Y'all must think you are enlightened or something. Sometimes its just best to take a stand against evil. Some things are simply evil. All evil needs to triumph is for good men to do nothing. How about I string you up and bludgeon you with a bat being careful all the while to keep you alive and excuse it as just a tradition of your culture. As far as I'm concerned, you and your culture can go to straight to hell. Its also apparent that a lot of folks have no clue whatsoever about the love, loyalty and unshakeable bond that dog will hold towards a man. Dogs are incredibly intelligent. Without hardly trying my Border Collie, Roger, developed a vocabulary recognition on the order of hundreds of words, and not just objects or commands, but concepts like "around", and "other" and many more. He showed all the emotions that humans display except for the bad ones. He was protective of us and loyal and just the darn best friend I've ever had. Don't ever tell me "Good grief. It's just a friggin' dog"!  The KKK did likewise towards blacks. The nazis did likewise towards Jews. Americans did likewise towards our native population. That kind of thinking is pure evil. Suggest you shun it and develop some empathy for the lesser creatures of this world, especially those who serve us so loyaly and so well. I don't even want to debate this anymore. It is just too painful for me. | ||
| Honu |
Ghostrider, First off I apologize to you for my remarks directed at you. Sorry! Blake, sorry for hijacking your thread!! Craig | ||
| Lowflyer |
"How about I string you up and bludgeon you with a bat being careful all the while to keep you alive and excuse it as just a tradition of your culture. " Blake, You seriously need professional help if you are insinuating a dog's life is as valuable as a human life. It's not even remotely on the same playing field. If we didn't all believe evil is relative to a given culture to some degree, we would have perpetual world war. That's not enlightenment. It's not excusing anything. It's just plain common sense. At some point we do have to draw a line between acceptable cultural norms and just plain evil. That is what sent us into Iraq. Because yours and my cultural tolerance thresholds vary by a few feet doesn't mean one of us is better than the other. It may just mean one of us has experienced and had to put up with more varying cultures than the other. I don't like what they do to dogs any more than you do. I have one of the smartest, most people-like yellow labs God ever put on this earth. I tend to look at this from a wider perspective. I abhor what they do to their political prisoners, children (born and unborn), and the environment. I think that is worth more press and more of my personal attention than what they eat and how they prepare their food. I think your fixation with the dog torture blinds you to the bigger picture. | ||
| Djkaplan |
" They have restaurants in Korea where you can go to and take in what they consider to be a delicacy." I'm assuming you're talking about dogs. If you are, this is incorrect - it is illegal in Korea for a restaurant to serve dogmeat to the general public. | ||
| Djkaplan |
"Don't ever tell me 'Good grief. It's just a friggin' dog'! The KKK did likewise towards blacks. The nazis did likewise towards Jews. Americans did likewise towards our native population." I'm kind of shocked that Jews, blacks, and Native Americans are being compared with dogs here. "Y'all must think you are enlightened or something." That's a two way street you are on. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
lets all play nice...we all agree the chinese or any of the asian 'traditions' of killing dogs in the manor that has been shown is bad. Do we all really want to squabble among ourselves? As for unions, they have done a lot of good for their workers, also their stock holders and leaders. There is much more work to be done to make American products affordable and the highest quality once again as it was in the past. There has been no shortage of evil used through out time towards just about any group or animal. What is there to do about it? Only do what is right in your heart for your self, towards the things and acts that you can control. Am I wrong guys? Man this winter is getting long...we all need a good ride. | ||
| Josh_ |
>If you are, this is incorrect - it is illegal in Korea for a restaurant to serve dogmeat to the general public. It may be illegal, but that doesn't make it incorrect. There were a couple of news stories about this during the last World Cup. I haven't actually been following this thread, but while in Italy I noticed the nicer restaurants often served horse and foal as a main course.... | ||
| Djkaplan |
"There were a couple of news stories about this during the last World Cup." Interesting you should mention that. That's exactly how I found out it was illegal to serve dogmeat in restaurants in Korea. There was apparently a society of dogeaters that were trying to stage a demonstration to get it back in restaurants. The Korean authorities put an end to the demonstration - quickly. | ||
| Halbard |
I find myself firmly behind Blake on this... the practice of inhumane treatment is not acceptable, just because one things life is deamed less valuable than anothers... It is not the practice of eating dog... It's the treatment of the animals during slaughter. Hell... we treat death row rapist murderers better. As far as unions go... hey, if they want to price themselves out of a job, it is their perogative to do so... just shut up and live with the consequences... a buddy of mine (a cement mason...) keeps having to take non-union jobs to pay the bills. The non-union jobs pay about $20 an hour, union jobs pay $38 minimum. But amazingly, the union jobs are going away... hummmm I wonder why.... | ||
| Spreadem |
I'm assuming you're talking about dogs. If you are, this is incorrect - it is illegal in Korea for a restaurant to serve dogmeat to the general public. This is not accurate. I've been in Korea for two years and have seen hundreds of restaurants with "ke-gogi", or dog meat, on the menu. I've seen the dog farms. A few of my buddies have gone out with Korean soldiers and tried it. I just can't fathom eating it myself. What you are referring to occured solely due to the World Cup. Korea didn't want any international groups protesting the fact that dog meat is eaten here. So during the World Cup, they wouldn't allow restaurants to serve dog meat, due to a possible backlash from foreigners. It was all about image, and the mandate was quickly revoked when the games were over. | ||
| Djkaplan |
I defer to your personal knowledge. The only information I got on the subject was from US newspapers. But what I won't do is feel outrage over the dietary habits of a culture that is thousands of years older than ours. If I could make it go away with the wave of a hand I would, but I can't. I am a pet owner myself and I feel bad about the dogs and cats that are treated badly. But it's their backyard. However, should this occure in our backyard, the fury I would unleash would be criminal. | ||
| Bikergoddess |
Dogs don't have human emotions. That's anthropomorphizing. We do have some emotions in common, but that doesn't mean dogs are humans with smelly coats. Dogs also don't believe in good and evil. They have a range of learned and innate behaviours that are neither good nor bad, but there. Like it or not, humans are at the top of the food chain, and that means eating those further down. Again, not good or bad, but reality. Do I condone mistreating animals? Not on your life. Do I love my pets? Absolutely. I'd even go so far as to say animals are better than humans, but it's hypocritical to throw a fit about one country's culture while ignoring every other bad thing out there. Or the bad things in our own country. Why not, instead of boycotting all Chinese made goods, donate to your local no-kill shelter? Or better yet, volunteer. Do you know how many wonderful animals are put down every day in this country because there's no one to adopt them? Do you realize what happens to unwanted pets here at home? Make a difference where it counts, not protesting something no one's ever going to find out about. Laura | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Goddess, Your not taking in all the abandoned felines in Wisconsin are ya? I can picture it now, you'll grow old with 5 million cats and the neighbors will say she was such a sweet old gal but had so many damm cats. hehehehehe A while back I almost adopted this 10yr old Persian Cat, the owners took her to the shelter because when the moved to a new home their cat refused to use the litter box and just kept going to the bathroom on the carpets, beds, shoes and other areas in the house. The shelter told me the cat had seen two other homes and was brought back for the same problem. We figured that we would have trouble with her as we already had three cats and two dogs. I'm with the Goddess on this one, there are much better causes out there on your own doorstep to get involved with and not worrying what another countries culture dictates. There are much greater causes and evils against humanity in this world. By the way, my mother swears that she taught my old Lab/Doberman Cross to say "I love you". What was really funny was that after a couple drinks of Screech the dog really sounded like she was saying it!!!!! | ||
| Bikergoddess |
Don't laugh, but when I got here I started looking for shelters to volunteer at. I only found one no-kill shelter in the area, and I can't volunteer there until they adopt out one of the cats (he looks just like my Magic did, and came in with his sister, just like my Magic did, and even had a similar name) I knew I'd end up bringing him home if I saw him and my bf is highly allergic to cats and it would have been bad.... We do have two dogs though =D Laura | ||
| Raraf |
Colorado is the best state for people who believe that their dogs are human. 4-7 people a year makes news trying to save their dogs when they fall into a raging river or frozen lake and then they drown and the dog makes it out. The best one, this lady jumped into a raging river last year to save her labrador. She was washed away and the news crew cut to the rescue crew and THERE WAS THE LAB JUST WAGGIN' ITS TAIL JUMPING UP AND DOWN FOR ATTENTION! My old cat would come up to my leg and rub it "I love you" then it would go up to the table leg "I love you too". | ||
| Djkaplan |
"my bf is highly allergic to cats and it would have been bad.... " If I turned out to be allergic to the stray cat my gf brought home last year, it would have been me looking for a new place to stay. I've been trained me to clean the litterbox and fetch since then. | ||
| Bikergoddess |
We compromise. He doesn't smoke, I don't bring home cats. | ||
| Kdan |
Hey Blake, I'm enlightened. Always have been. There are other, way more important problems than the culinary habits of third world countries to be concerned with, many of which are right in your back yard. For the record, my dog was known as the short blond kid at my house. Watch this and chill out a bit, bud. http://www.hornyferret.com/movies/193.mov | ||
| Lowflyer |
Raraf, Darwin called that natural selection. hehehe... | ||
| Captpete |
That’s the one, Newfie. Whew! Makes an old man twitch. I was thinking yesterday that I hope this thread doesn’t get around to fish. ‘Course I’m not killing enough of the things lately to raise a stink, but they go out via suffocation if I get behind (hasn’t happened yet), or hypothermia. I guess that’s a pretty good way to go. But if I ever get a chance to chase these sashimi-grade tuna in a couple of months when the weather lets up, well, the killing routine is documented in a 30-page publication out of New Caledonia. If they’re too frisky when they reach the boat, they have to be stunned with a club before being brought aboard so they won’t bruise themselves flopping around on the deck. (They might jump off the foam-rubber operating table – really!) Next, it’s a spike to the brain. Then a length of heavy monofilament gets stuck into the spike hole and is pushed the entire length of the vertebrae canal to the tail. And that’s just the beginning of a very long and tedious process. Anyway, all of the killing I’ve done on my back deck over the years has changed my view of life dramatically. I kill what I have to. It’s food, and it’s my job. But I will go out of my way to save the smallest life that doesn’t need to be taken. (Ticks and cockroaches, on Dewey and in the house, are exempt.) I enjoy fly-fishing as a sport, and releasing them at the end of the contest adds a great deal to that enjoyment. I find it interesting that all this killing has generated such a respect for life. | ||
| Blake |
To those of you who imagine that I am upset about culinary habits. You no read good. The issue is the intentional infliction of torture upon dogs. Period. The point is that some people always find a way to excuse evil behavior, no matter who/what is the victim. I'll be passionate about this issue as I wish. It is near and dear to my heart. Animals hold a special place for me as they are innocent unwitting bystanders, especially the ones we have seen fit to domesticate. Children and animals, they all deserve our special attention and respect. Laura, Like I said, dogs share the same emotions as us, except for the bad ones. I've heard and read about the scientists who report that dogs and other animals cannot feel emotion. They are wrong. I've seen it. There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that a dog can feel and express sorrow, joy, excited anticipation, satisfaction, resolve, stubborness, empathy, loyalty, fear, trepidation, love, anxiety, exasperation, frustration, even humor, which for me says a lot about their intelligence and personality. What they don't express is hatred, greed, avarice, malice, the evil emotions, at least not on any kind of consistent basis. Some dogs can be gluttonous. So I refute your contention that dogs do not have emotions on par with humans. I know that they do on account of I've seen it too many times. | ||
| Blake |
Well put Captain.  | ||
| Oldog |
I've seen it. There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that a dog can feel and express sorrow, joy, excited anticipation, satisfaction, resolve, stubborness, empathy, loyalty, fear, trepidation, love, anxiety, exasperation, frustration, even humor, which for me says a lot about their intelligence and personality. I also have seen this especialy: fear (strange big dog in yard, please protect me) excited anticipation,( daddy has the cheese!) anxiety, (thats thunder i'm so outta here!) trepidation (did you say bath?) love, (your home! I'm going to lay in your lap!} and you will pet me and I will lick your face!) these actions are not just the result of conditioning, Molly did not do these things with / for every one. | ||
| Bikergoddess |
"Like I said, dogs share the same emotions as us, except for the bad ones. I've heard and read about the scientists who report that dogs and other animals cannot feel emotion. They are wrong. I've seen it. There is absolutely ZERO doubt in my mind that a dog can feel and express sorrow, joy, excited anticipation, satisfaction, resolve, stubborness, empathy, loyalty, fear, trepidation, love, anxiety, exasperation, frustration, even humor, which for me says a lot about their intelligence and personality. What they don't express is hatred, greed, avarice, malice, the evil emotions, at least not on any kind of consistent basis. Some dogs can be gluttonous. So I refute your contention that dogs do not have emotions on par with humans. I know that they do on account of I've seen it too many times." You just said you don't think they have 'bad' emotions. But then you say their emotions are equal to humans'. Which is it? And you see what you want. You're attributing emotions to the dogs they may not have. Hence the anthropomorphizing comment. Dogs are pack animals and their behaviour is that of a pack animal, not a furry little human. Sure, dogs act excited when you come home. It's not because they love you, it's because they've been alone all day with no stimulation or company and you control the food. They don't 'act guilty' when you catch them doing something they've been trained not to. That's a fear reaction. They don't snuggle down in bed with you at night because they're your best friend. They enjoy comfortable resting spots and companionship, and match their activity patterns to the pack leader, since they hunt in groups and it's advantageous to be ready to go when the leader is. You're certainly welcome to continue thinking your dogs are more human than they are. But they aren't. Laura | ||
| Lowflyer |
Smart people suck.  | ||
| Chasespeed |
So y'all don't have a problem with beating a living concious dog in order to tenderize it prior to killing it? That is very bewildering to me. Just one more reason for me to despise people. Ain't no other way to put it. Y'all suck. ********************* Raraf, Darwin called that natural selection. hehehe... OK, first, what I think of the dog eating, is irrelevent....Okay? } My stand is this. Look around, you even mentioned that we treat death row cons better, well, THAT is a major problem, and costs too much damn money. All this crap about lethal injection, what about a damn bullet???? cheaper faster, no alcohol swap before the injection...BANG...done... Personally, I think there are many other things, we as a society can be doing, to streamline the prison system, POLITICS, etc... You wanna talk about "inhumane"? How about this? Exxon/Mobil? Why are they making ALL this damn money, yet blaming the high prices on overseas issues? B/S! Its in the news... Anyway, this polictically correct crap, bleeding heart liberals, all that needs to go to the way side, or we are eventually going to tear our selves apart. What they do in China, is frankly, none of our business, (unless they are planning an attack, or sneaking dog meat onto your table while you arent looking).... teh hindus and muslims in our society, dont go around raising a stink becuase we eat red meat, or pork...they deal with it..they just DONT eat it.. why cant we do the same. AS far s teh treatment of animals before, and during the sluaghter...okay. Not my problem. This isnt somethign even relatively new in the scope of history, and why it shoudl be an issue NOW, is beyond me. If they were poaching an endagenred species...okay...let one of the groups get involved... BUT, trying to go over there, and change the way things are, really makes us the enemy in ALOT of eyes. It was stated, that we do things, that really •••• other cultures off, but that is okay? NO It really is a 2 way street. Let them eat thier dog, do as they see fit(for food)...believe me, there are other things they eat that woudl totally shock you...and cause you to never look at some things teh same again... Me personally, I am more concerned about things that affect OUR SOCIETY... AND, another thign that has been stated, Suvival of the fittest, natural selection...whatever... WE ARE the top of the food chain...in our present state... BUT, you go to...say Africa, and that lion or other large cat is starving, guess what...you aint the top of the food chain no more...and I can assure you, it wont try to "kill you humanely".. Things are just different for other people... Again...its not that I dont like dogs..but...its not my choice who eats what... I applaud you for taking a stand on somethign you belive in...its our priciples that make us human.. BUT, we also have to respect other peoples principles as well, or we are just hipocrites. I will state my opinion, as will you yours...that is a right here...BUT, DO NOT, in you opinion, assume that others are thinking they are enlightned, becuase they have a different view..this woudl make you NO BETTER than the rest..but I am sure that isnt your intent. And, as far as anythign coming from ANY extremist group, PETA, or whoever it is..AND the media...I wanna se ti for myself...not their videos..or adds.. they are just people, tryign to force thier veiws on others...and that my friend, is just wrong. I respect each persons right to their opinion, including yours...though, I expect, that you will accept others peoples right to opinion, including mine. DICLAIMER. this post was NOT ment in any way shape or form, to degrade, or berate anyone, it was only me, EXPRESSING my opninion... Yeah, this is truly my longest post ever...and probably my last... And I wrote that reply in teh context, that, the last line you wrote in teh cut/paste, WASNT sarcastic, and if I am in err there, I appologize now... My nickles worth.... Chase |
