| Author | Message | ||
     Blake |
No more "made in china" crap for me. I don't care if I have to pay double. The XB wheels are made in China? I ain't buying a new XB. Buell, please have your parts made somewhere else please! Yeah, I'm a friend of dogs. | ||
| Blake |
http://news.yahoo.com/s/afp/20060127/lf_afp/afplifestylechinalunar_060127182821 | ||
| Blake |
 A dog destined for the dinner table is being thrown into a cage at the Xin Yuan animal market in Guangzhhou, China. France's Society for the Protection of Animals (SPA) appealed to Chinese President Hu Jintao to put an end to the cruel slaughter of dogs, which it blasted as an affront(AFP/File/Peter Parks) | ||
| Seanp |
I love dogs as well, but just to play the devil's advocate, haven't they been doing this for years? My 8th grade English teacher tried to get us to boycott Korean cars when they first came out, (like a bunch of 12-year-olds have any say in what their parents buy). He read us an article about how they take puppies and kittens and throw them live into boiling water. That was back in the early 80's. Another devil's advocate point - if they were some ugly type of animal, or stupid, would people care? Again, I love dogs. I grew up with dogs, and if I weren't in the Army right now I'd have a dog, (but it wouldn't be fair to the dog with the hours I work/deploy). | ||
| U4euh |
That is disturbing on many different levels. As I currently have 5 dogs, all rescued except for 1, I cannot fathom this. I guess if you grow up with it, it is no big deal, but damn. To make it worse that dog in the picture was staring right at the camera. Makes me sad to think what child or family might have enjoyed the companionship. | ||
| Mountainrider |
The thing of it is that a dog to them is just like a pig or chicken to us. We do not think nothing about shooting a deer and watching it kick until it dies. I often wonder when I am at a Chinese restaurant if I am really eating chicken or not. If you will ever notice there is never any cats or dogs anywhere close to one. Makes you wonder way? | ||
| Spreadem |
Here in Korea dog meat is also quite prevalent in their culture, so before we start a China "boycott", consider that it is not one country. They have restaurants in Korea where you can go to and take in what they consider to be a delicacy. Japan kills whales, what do we kill? A lot. The three justificational responses I get when I ask about the practice are actually, I think, hard to argue with: 1. Culture is something hard to change and every society in the world has aspects that are normal to it, but appaling to some otheres. For example, we eat beef and in India that is a grievous sin. We eat pork as well, which in Islam is also just as taboo. Of course the justification put forth by our country is that the animals "don't suffer" and it is actually "quite humane" for them. A dead animal is a dead animal, right?? We also are in the practice of killing humans. If you look at the countries that still practice capital punishment, most of them are Middle Eastern or Asian in origin and are countries we constantly deride for their lack of caring on issues regarding human rights. Many European countries look at us like we look at China as far as human rights go. 2.The second is that the dogs that are consumed are not what you are thinking of in your head when you say "How can they do that??" The dogs are a special breed that exist to be eaten. They are not household dogs that you would take for a walk. They are essentially livestock, and are really quite ugly too. Chihauhaus, Labs, and German Shepherds are pets to Asians just as they are pets to us. They don't eat pets, they eat the sole breed of dog who was designed to exist for that purpose. I'm thinking most people on this board would have probably been thinking "Golden Retrievers" when eating dogs was brought up. 3. Finally, it is not common. It is like rich people in the states who buy mink coats or snakeskin wallets. They have the money and they do it because they can. You can't go to a grocery store and buy dead minks and snakes. In Korea you don't go to a grocery store and buy dogs, make dog burgers, or serve dog dinners. It is not something that is practiced by regular citizens, more of a thing rich people do because it confirms their "status" in society. So should an entire country's products be boycotted and the large part of their population be held accountable, for something that a small portion of their population practices, and most regular citizens have no control over?? I'm thinking people in other countries look at us and see many things they don't agree with, from the KKK to our current political administration. But should everyone in our country be held liable for the actions of the few? | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Whether it be dogs, seals, whales, cows and other animals everyones culture is different. Its going to take a lot of effort these days not to buy Chinese products. | ||
| Mountainrider |
I thought it was funny when Bush blamed the american consumer for not buying products made in the USA. First you have to have products to buy. No matter what you want it is almost impossible to find a product made in the USA. If you buy a vehicle from the big three it will be made of parts from outside of the US and the vehicle will most likely be made in Mexico,Canada,Korea and Japan. A Toyota or Honda is more american made then a Chevy. I think the Honda Goldwing has more american made parts then the Harley Electra Glide. The Honda has made in the USA stamped into the metal parts. The Harley has a USA sticker that was most likely made in China. No where on the bike does it say made in the USA. So it is hard to boycott a country that makes parts for the bikes,vehicles and electronics that we love so much. | ||
| Bikergoddess |
All good points, but you won't convert anyone who's already made up their mind to believe something... Laura | ||
| Ducxl |
I,m sorry people eat dog.My efforts to purchase American made products is more political.I believe my fellow neighborhood American who makes products i use deserves a closer look,even if his product is more expensive due to health care,or his wage.Why don't the chinese have the same access to MY products? We put a,what,3% tarriff on the chinese cars that ARE coming,and the chinese put something like 30% tarriff on our products? WTF! | ||
| Blake |
They want to humanely kill and eat canine, I can accept that. Some people will eat horse too. I won't. Some domesticated species have simply done too much for the human race to disrespect them so horribly. It is just plain evil to torture an animal to death. I oppose all such egregiously inhumane treatment of animals. Dogs hold a VERY special place in this world in their relationship with man. They truly are man's best friend. They deserve our respect. All animals do, but especially so the domestic dog. That is where I am coming from. Shooting a wild deer for food is not remotely like to torturing it to death. It is hunter and prey. Killing an animal, any animal "slowly and cruelly to enhance the meat's flavour" is evil. Period. It demonstrates a horrible lack of empathy and humanity. Sure I also have problems with the way some domestic foul are treated. But that doesn't come close to approaching the level of disdain I have for intentional torture of domestic canines, man's best friend. I don't know of any chickens who served alongside our troops, our police, or just as loyal and entirely selfless family guardians and companions. You might as well be torturing my brother or sister as to torture a dog. Newfie, you are right. It will be VERY difficult to shun made in China merchandise. And I am up to the task. Don't doubt my resolve in this. My one and only concern is that the report may not be accurate. I need to learn the truth about how prevalent the mistreatment really is. Again, the humane killing and eating of domestic dogs, while abhorrent to me, I can live with. It is the inhumanity that offends me so much. | ||
| Buellbozo |
I must ponder on the following... What's up with me and my resolve re: Made in China, when I can be galvanized more by the inhumane treatment and death of helpless canines to feed people than the inhumane treatment and death of helpless human beings to feed a political system??? Like I said, just ponderin'.  | ||
| Spreadem |
You're right to look into it. The "humane" way to kill poultry is to slit it's throat and let it bleed out...so my question is: at what point does it stop being cruel and start being o.k.? Is it o.k. simply because it's poultry and we don't take poultry for walks to the park or give them names? Beating dogs to death is wrong and inhumane. I don't argue that killing dogs inhumanely is wrong, but where do you draw the line at what's humane? And where do you draw the line at what species are deserving of being killed and which aren't? The easiest way to protest the slaughter of animals is to simply not eat them. If that's not an option, I'm sure there are ways to effectively protest such treatment of animals (PETA, etc.) But not buying a XB wheel beacuse it is made in China doesn't seem to accoplish any more than bringing personal satisfaction. I would say that if this issue really bothers you, try something that will have more of an impact. Like I alluded to earlier, not buying a country's products because of the actions of a dog meat company, really won't help. And it punishes honest hardworking people who have nothing to do with the issue. Is the whole country of China responsible for people who kill dogs? | ||
| Typeone |
Killing an animal, any animal "slowly and cruelly to enhance the meat's flavour" is evil. Period. It demonstrates a horrible lack of empathy and humanity. Killing any other living thing shows a lack of empathy, whether dog, deer or cow, it was living and breathing, just like you. Once you pull that trigger or wield that club... it's murder. Plain and simple. | ||
| Blake |
Killing animals for food is perfectly fine as long as it is done humanely. Period. Torture to satiate sick-minded idea of a "delicacy" is evil. Period. If you don't understand how the domestic dog holds an especially close relationship to mankind, one that earns them an extra measure of respect then doubt that I can explain it to you. The term "unconditional love" stands at the forefront of my thinking when it comes to domestic canines. Horses are right up there too. Right on the politics re himan injustice too. I've seen improvement on that front and don't know of any widespread torture of human beings in China these days. So while avoiding the "made in china" products as much as possible, I was not so adamant about it as I am should the above accusations prove true. If anyone has more information on the issue and especially concerning the veracity of the topical report, I'd sure like to know. Where's JVV? | ||
| Blake |
Killing an animal for food is not murder. Good grief. | ||
| Davegess |
H e l l we drop live lobsters in boiling water just before we eat them. Some places march the live ones out to your table and you get to pick which one dies tonight. The Japanese have been know to serve live fish. Get over it. | ||
| Spiderman |
I wonder what the Hindus think about our cow farms  | ||
| Dbird29 |
What about those fields of vegetables? Perhaps we do not understand the true feelings of the Chlorophyll based co-inhabitants of this fragile planet Earth. We pull them by the roots, chop them to pieces and boil them just to feed and pleasure our basic human instinct. "Eating Broccoli is Murder!"  | ||
| Voltage_vector |
Blake, I agree, if they are going to use the meat of any animal, at least put it down quick and as painless as possible. In 76, I was in Korea. I heard MANY dogs yelping as their owners beat the cra# out of them to "inhance the flavor" prior to slaughter. I saw it. They thought nothing of it at all. On a lighter note, a friend and I in the 2nd ID were going through pizza withdrawls there after about a year. I had dear old ma send one of those Chef Boy-r-dee pizza kits. Finally found some old dude in the village who had a oven we could use. We made up the pizza, spread out the sause, and had the guy score us some ground meat. We chowed down and man I have never had a better pizza. Afterward we started thinking...hey we could tell all the guys on base to come here and set this guy up with the first pizza joint in Tong Du Chon and we could get a cut! We'd be loaded! So we started getting out costs and supplies straitened out and when we asked the old dude where he got the meat, he said the Ka gogi store....gogi was meat, Ka was dog. Our plans of the pizza shop kinda died right then. I had these visions of 1000 pis#@* infantry guys beating me to death cause I fed them dog topping pizza. It is a very wierd world out there...hey I don't by Jap cars...Had a uncle killed in WWII by the Japs...I'd just feel funny.... | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
These are not domestic dogs they are livestock, they have never know the love of a human. You can not put these dogs in the same class as our domesticated dogs. But, if they are inhumanly killing them, that really pisses me off, but how about Spanish goods will you boycott them, they spear a young bull to death in the middle of a ring while spectators watch. Every culture has it's ways, yes they may seem weird but helll we seem weird to most of the world. If you are going to boycott China you will probably need to boycott most of the other countries in the world. | ||
| Voltage_vector |
So true, it is nearly impossible to boycott all the countries who we have issues with...I'm sure there are lots of HD owners out there. American (mostly) made right? Then why do some wear German style helmets? Never could get that. Seemed rather hipacritical to me...how about old do-boy helmets! | ||
| Blake |
Tim, I don't give a darn if they are friendly or not, that is entirely irrelevant to me. I sure do put them in the same class as any domestic dog. Being unloved by humans is no justification for treating anyone or any dog so cruely and inhumanely. I've been to a bull fight. I saw the bull badly gore a number of his antagonizers. I don't like bullfighting either, but at least the bullfighter is in serious harms way. I saw one bull earn a pardon. They don't beat a bull to tenderize it. They wound it, tire it out and put a sword through its heart. Still sucky, but no where near the inhumanity described in the topical article. Some of you just don't get it. If you've never had a dog who was your best friend, I doubt you could. It ain't right in any sense to torture any animal. Dogs are man's best friend. The inhumanity, perpetrated upon them makes it so much worse. It certainly reflects on the culture that perpetrates such cruelty. I truly hope that the cruelty is not as prevalent as the topical article contends. | ||
| Blake |
I guess I take my biggest stands on the issues that are nearest and dearest to my heart. I really don't care for the relativism debates. If it doesn't bother you enough to boycott made in china merchandise, that is your prerogative. Mine is to boycott made in china goods and to spread the word should the topical report prove accurate. | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Blake, I have to agree with you. I, too, am nuts about my dogs (my old chowchow is 16 and still my girl.) I dread the day, in the near future, that I have to put her down. We will be losing a family member. I just don't understand it -- can't get my head wrapped around it. I'd go out on a limb and guess if there's anyone 'pigheaded' (that is some kind of compliment by the way) enough to accomplish your stated goal you have the ability to do so :-) (based on years of reading your posts.) G2 | ||
| Mountainrider |
Mine is to boycott made in china goods and to spread the word should the topical report prove accurate. I guess it is no more Harley products for you.  | ||
| Captpete |
It sucks, big time. Here on Guam, there are many cultures, one of the allures of this place. I have some Korean friends here, and I understand from them, there are places where you can order a dog dinner ahead of time. They gotta go catch one of the boonie dogs. But what bothers me most out here is my fear that Dewey will end up on some one’s table. There was a little boonie dog that was the pet of one of the dive operations at the harbor. He was the short-legged variety, or low-rider, as they are called. His appearance and sort of belonging to the dive outfit earned him the name Tank. He wore a collar. The dive outfit employs some Micronesians, and they were from one of the islands where they eat dogs. One day the mechanic, from a different island, was scheduled to come in late, but arrived on time anyway. He got there just in time to see one of the guys hosing the blood off the deck. Tank was never seen again. They ate a pet. If I ever found out that they ate Dewey, I’d spend the rest of my life in prison – for inhumane murder. The only thing that might save Dewey and them is that they prefer brown dogs. Another local incident: One of the Korean longliners had a pet dog aboard, and the health department told them to get rid of the dog. The next day, the dog was gone, and the inspector asked what they did with it. They promptly opened the freezer and pointed inside. And lastly, you might remember when a few years ago, a Korean airliner crashed into a mountaintop short of the runway here, killing all aboard. The local haolies started calling the incident the “boonie dog’s revenge.” Some twisted justice there for dog lovers, I guess. I don’t like the Chinese deal, but that’s the way it is, and there is nothing I can realistically do about changing that. But maybe I can do something about the plight of the local boonie dogs here on Guam. See my post on another thread: http://www.badweatherbikers.com/cgibin/discus/show.cgi?tpc=4062&post=584668#POST 584668 Capt. Pete | ||
| Bigdaddy |
Archie said it best: "The dissenter is every human being at those moments of his life when he resigns momentarily from the herd and thinks for himself." - Archibald MacLeish Just consider it,,,,,,YMMV G2 | ||
| Thansesxb9rs |
Blake, I do understand what you are saying, my dog is my kid. Yes I am single but he means so much to me and I take him every where with me if I am not on the bike. I was just trying to explain that alot of inhuman actions are going on around the world including the US. No I am not trying to justify it but just saying it will be hard to boycott just one country because these kind of actions are not just limited to China. Yes it does make me mad, I do not see how anyone could look at a dog and consider it as a food product, but I grew up in a society that is far from similar to what the culture in China and many other countries is. Plus I do not always beleive what I read, especially if it is coming from an extremist group. Please findout the truth and report back, there may be more to it then we know. I always thought that slowly killing any animal ruined the meat because of the adrenaline that is rushing through the body. I can not see how the slow torture of an animal could make it taste better. |
