| Author | Message | ||
     Iamike |
Instead of taking the wire-tapping thread off on another tangent I was thinking of this that is more applicable to motorcycles. Right now we have red light cameras going up all over the place. Granted they are supposedly there to protect us. I guess that if I lived in one of these areas that have problems with these people I may like them. My question is, "Do they infinge on our rights". Next in coming is the GPS monitoring of cars. Some rental agencies are already doing this and are issuing tickets to renters who speed. Now I am reading that some states are concerned about hybrid vehicles not using enough gas to pay taxes to maintain roads. So they are thinking of installing GPS trackers and tax per mile. I am sure the next step would be to get the motorcycles. And then the enforcement people would say "Hey, that guy was travelling 10mph over the speed limit there, so we should send him a ticket". | ||
| Raceautobody |
A pix of a license plate does not prove who was driving. If a vehicle has the ability to pay the fine then go ahead and ticket it. Tickets are issued to drivers. ID the driver, issue a ticket. Can't ID the driver they have no proof who was driving. No legal way to issue a ticket. Traffic enforcement cameras should,will be deemed unconstitutional. Al | ||
| Jlnance |
My question is, "Do they infinge on our rights". I would say that technically they do not, since it seems like anyone is allowed to take a picture in a public place. However, I don't like the idea of being under survalence when I'm going down the street. So whether they infringe our rights or not, I don't want red light cameras, or any other type of camera taking pictures of me when I go outside. I really don't like the GPS monitoring. Not so much because of the financial & speeding considerations, but because they would make it very easy to track the movements of people. Forcing people to carry something that allows them to be tracked, does I think, voilate peoples rights. | ||
| Halbard |
Watch for this trick... happened while I was living in Mesa... City put up cameras at different intersections around town identified as "troubled areas". Didn't raise too many eyebrows, till the people noticed those yellow lights seemed shorter then at other intersections. Sure enough, a citizens group timed the yellow lights... result? The lights with cameras on them were half the time of the other intersections in town. That ones probally STILL in court.... | ||
| Rex |
they are going up all over the place in the phoenix valley. scottsdale is now putting them up along the freeways, to give tickets to speeders there. the cameras at the intersections should be against the law. I know phoenix is bad as far as accidents, but that is really an infringement. the tracking on cars. Not good. Too much of a governed state of affairs. people should fight back and either vote out the people in office installing them, or take it to court and win the battle........just my thoughts this morning..... | ||
| Angelwild327 |
here's in interesting article on how the red light camera's work and how different states deal with the photographing of faces and licenses.. http://electronics.howstuffworks.com/red-light-camera.htm | ||
| Chainsaw |
Some rental agencies are already doing this and are issuing tickets to renters who speed IIRC that rental company was sued and lost last year. No more self reporting speeding tickets. I have no problem with red light cameras. Running red lights causes serious accidents, and people in my area are getting more blatent ever day. Don't run the red light, no picture taken, no problem. I would think wearing a full face helmet with a tinted shield would give reasonable doubt to your ID on an MC, I.e. easy way to get out of a ticket. Conversely, IIRC there was a study done that said increasing the yellow light by 2 seconds was remarkably effective at decreasing red light infringements. You do not have a right to privacy in public. That's how paparazzi gets all them celeb pictures (Although I think it should be considered STALKING). | ||
| Tramp |
the traffic light monitors are random, ie they don't target or track individuals, so i have NO probelm with them. Hopefully they'll keep people more honest. The GPS/EZ Pass, etc. 'speeding tickets' have not, and will not, hold up in V&T Court. There have been one or two which gained initial convictions, however, those convictions were immediately overturned. Don't expect to see this change anytime soon. | ||
| Ryker77 |
the thing is this.. Some traffic devices are contracted out to civilians groups. Who then get a cut off the fines enforced. What could happen is roads could be set up so that the driver would have a hard time not running a red light. Or the traffic signals could be timed so that it would impead the flow of traffic. So that profits could be increased. Its also been shown that in the areas with cameras people will stop on yellow light thus getting rear ended. Many states actually have laws on the books to prevent city and counties from making a PROFIT off of traffic laws. I know that my city wants to annex a portion of the interstate. Soul reason is to get speeding ticket revenue. Its nearly impossible for travlers out of state to appear in court and defend the ticket. So the just pay the fine. My concern is this -- not that I want it to happen. But the NHTSA, FTC, DOT etc etc post the max speed limit at 70mph in most states. I had a Honda Insight --- yes a sissy ••• car  It was able to go 110mph!!!! Why do they (big brother) allow cars to be sold that can double the legal speed limit. If big brother can install fancy red light cameras, GPS, etc etc why not install something that prevent a car from speeding? Why? Becuase local police department need those quick and easy funds. And insurance companies like charging you more. But according to ole Bush --- anything that saves or prevent the loss of life is OK. It funny how people allow wire taps but raise cain about speeding. "Motor vehicle fatalities are the leading cause of death for people between ages 1-29, and the rate is particularly high between the ages of 15-24. A 16-year-old has 3 times the crash risk of an 18-year-old and 7 times the crash risk of a 25-year-old. " Or how about a car that will not go into gear unless the seatbelt is buckled. "56 percent of the estimated 42,800 people killed on U.S. highways in 2004 were not wearing seat belts. " We went to war with Iraq for a fear of WMD's and the daily new reminder of 9-11. 3000 people died on one day 4 years ago. 20,000 people did in car wrecks that could have been saved if seatbelts were used. --- I am not saying these things should happen. But if Bush can use fear to get away with wire taps then that puts all of spin on possible government enforcements. | ||
| Ryker77 |
STOCKPORT’S top traffic policeman says high-visibility speed cameras are causing accidents and “doing little” to deter speeding motorists. Insp John Williams, head of the divisional traffic unit in Hazel Grove, said the much-maligned bright yellow speed cameras, which have come under constant fire from drivers’ groups and road safety campaigners in the area, were in many cases “clearly not working”. He claimed it would be better to conceal them so reckless drivers did not know they were present. “We have had a couple of accidents immediately before speed cameras, where it appears that speeding motorists have braked severely and caused accidents,” said Insp Williams. “That is a fact, and we have noticed the traffic is slowing down dramatically before speed cameras and then picks up again once it has passed them. We have to acknowledge that road safety campaigners do have a point.” | ||
| Ryker77 |
A brand new, exhaustive study of all seven Virginia red light camera programs shows an overall increase in injury accidents has occurred where the devices are installed. The study was performed by The Virginia Transportation Research Council at the request of the state transportation secretary. The report also notes a fatal flaw in the Virginia's camera law -- motorists can ignore any ticket received in the mail. Only tickets that are personally served matter. This study agrees with long-term findings in Australia and North Carolina. --- Or if you are a local and get a ticket. Plead not guilty and request a jury trial. Chances are that --- paper work will get lost, the officer will not be a cop anymore, or the DA will drop the charges. Most courts are back logged and don't have the time for 100-200 fines. | ||
| Ryker77 |
Photo enforcement was a hot topic in several state legislatures throughout 2005. One state voted to allow camera tickets and another threw out an existing system. Another seven states turned aside serious lobbying efforts by localities and the insurance industry seeking to sanction the lucrative camera programs. Insurance companies }profit from photo tickets in Arizona, California, Illinois and other jurisdictions that attach points to camera citations. In July, Virginia's legislature effectively banned cameras by refusing to reauthorize a 1995 law that had allowed the devices to operate. In May, attempts to ban cameras in Arizona and Texas failed despite the support of a majority of legislators. By contrast, Rhode Island enacted legislation authorizing a new red light camera program in July. Similar attempts to authorize red light cameras died in Florida, Hawaii, Louisiana, Mississippi, Nevada, New Mexico and Utah. The Indiana Senate defeated speed cameras and red light cameras with a decisive 18-76 vote in April. Several bills introduced in 2005 will carry over into the 2006 session, including a measure effectively banning cameras in Ohio that passed the state House with an overwhelming vote in May. | ||
| Ryker77 |
To boost revenue, Mesa, Arizona is lowering the speed that triggers a photo radar citation in the city from 11 MPH over the limit to just 5 MPH over. The city uses five speed camera vans operated throughout the city by camera vendor ACS which receives a cut of the profit for each ticket issued.} Mesa will now ticket motorists if they drive 40 MPH near the Rhodes Junior High School between 7:30am and 6pm, even when no children are present. The road has a 45 MPH speed limit except during school hours, but no flashing warning signs are present to remind motorists to adhere to the lower 35 MPH limit. The city recently extended the school zone hours from 4pm to 6pm. | ||
| Tramp |
see- As a citizen who lives with federal scrutiny as a daily matter of course, I kinda like the idea of all the 99%ers getting the broad lens coverage, as well  I remember in the summer of '02 I worked a defense fund event, standing at the gate to the parking lot and directing guests in. For the entire event, i had several of the balck-BDU LEOs across the street in the abandoned motel keeeping me in their leupolds, with their 16s trained on me. Early that morning, at 7 am, I was pushing my Buell out to the street to start her, and there "just happened" to be two extraordinarily grubby-looking "outlaw bikers" sitting next to their Harleys, across the street, suddenly looking everywher eexcept in my direction, and quickly tossing their coffee cups in the trash and zipping their jackets up. The best part was losing them 5 miles down the road, then riding up behind them to pass them. I've had to live with this kinda stuff for years, I have a file an inch thick replete with dozens of photos of me and friends, and I've never been convicted of anything more than a traffic infraction in my whole life. If there's any chance of the rest of the citizenry dealing with this BS, I'm all for it! As I've politely, laughingly told dozens of feds over the past 4 or 5 years when they snap my picture in front of clubhouses, etc., "Please make sure you get some good shots of 'Abduhl and Zamir, too". Pretty much every fed I've spoken to, whose job it was to photograph me and my associates, has been a pretty decent, slightly embarrassed guy or girl who wasn't really excited about the detail he or she was stuck with. we're all only human. | ||
| Jlnance |
Tramp - Are you gonna tell us why they follow you?  | ||
| Tramp |
'well, yeah- cause i'm so purdy...... | ||
| Hammer71 |
You are kinda sexy | ||
| Medic_2512 |
They have over 200 Red light Camera`s in NYC and have just approved another 100. Why? Orignally they installed just a few about 6 years ago, but then the City realized how much money they can make from the fines. Its a huge money maker for the city at $75 plus $50 surcharge. NYC just released that it earned $700 million from parking tickets last year. How can this be? By putting up No- Parking signs that are so confusing to understand that people just don`t know. Then charge $115 for Double parking and $180 for blocking the Crosswalk. I`m work for NYPD and when people ask me about parking i can`t even figure out some of the signs, true! | ||
| Cochise |
Or if you are a local and get a ticket. Plead not guilty and request a jury trial. Chances are that --- paper work will get lost, the officer will not be a cop anymore, or the DA will drop the charges. Most courts are back logged and don't have the time for 100-200 fines. I wish it was that easy. At least in Arkansas, Traffic Court is seen by one judge and a Prostituting Attorney. Guilty, pay your fine and go home, not guilty, get court date and a lawyer and come back and the judge finds you guilty or innocent, or if it's a recurring offense, make sure they gave you all necessary paperwork or you get off on a technicality. I received a ticket once, forgot to go to court, talked to prosecuter, and got off REAL easy, $100 and a $25 court costs and out of his office I went. | ||
| Cochise |
There is also a law in Oklahoma, that if a city or municipality makes 75% of revenue from speeding tickets, they can't give a ticket for a year. SWEET!! | ||
| Fullpower |
.01x.03= .003 tramp is a .03%er | ||
| Jlnance |
Would I be an A$$ if I pointed out that it is .0003?  | ||
| Tramp |
.03%er. priceless.badweb | ||
| Ryker77 |
Cochise... thats why on the first court date you request a jury trial. You have three options on the first court date. Pay the fine take a trial by judge -- often on a later date or take a jury trial. at least thats my state. not a lawyer so take it with a grain of salt | ||
| Kdan |
It's always been an "Us against Them" mentality in regards to speeders/red lighters and law enforcement. That's why they sell radar detectors, License plate blockers and radar jammers. I'm all for F***ing with the man. Just don't get caught. | ||
| Cochise |
Cochise... thats why on the first court date you request a jury trial. The only Jury trial for a vehicle case is vehicular manslaughter in Arkansas | ||
| Tramp |
no jury trials for V&T in NY | ||
| M2nc |
For those worried about GPS, most new cars already have computers that can tell police how fast you were going. The on-board computers that control your car's anti-lock, anti-spin, fuel, spark, etc. track the rate of speed the car is traveling. Car companies have that information recorded by the computers to help them fight fraudulent warranty and law suit claims that sight a vehicle defect caused an accident. In one case a teenage girl was killed when she backed her car onto the road and was hit from behind by another car. Normally this would have been deemed her fault because she was the one backing into cars with right of way. The Police suspected that the motorist in the other car was speeding so they petitioned GM for the information in his Pontiac. The Police presently do not have the means of extracting this information but GM agreed without complaint and told the Police that the car was traveling around 100mph just before the brakes were applied. The road was a 35mph road so the driver of the Pontiac was charged with Vehicular Manslaughter and was convicted. Dudes, Big Brother is already watching. In a case here in eastern NC, a fire broke out at a local GM dealership. When the smoke cleared they realized that a couple of the trucks were missing. One of these trucks was a new Suburban with On-Star. The Ayden Police depart petitioned GM for present location of the truck and found it sitting behind one of the robber's houses. The first robber quickly gave up the second robber which had the second missing truck in his possession. It did not have On-Star. The two were charged with Grand-Theft Auto and Arson. In both these cases I can not see the harm in Big Brother watching, but these were reasonable request for information with prior evidence driving the request. I know that cameras do not have prior evidence and are for profit. This is where we need to draw the line. I went to Ohio for Xmas and had problems with the stop lights there. Here in NC you have not broken the law unless you enter the intersection under a Red Light. In Ohio, the law is under a Yellow Light. You sometimes can not stop safely under a Yellow because you are too close for the speed you are traveling. Laws need do be driven toward helping the driver drive safely and legally. Cameras for profit push the municipalities to go the other way. Now that should be a red light for all of us. | ||
| Newfie_buell |
Heres a suggestion!!! Don't break the law by speeding, running red lights and make sure you return the rental car. But its so hard to do the first most days. Or move to a place that don't have all that crap. | ||
| Chainsaw |
Pretty much every fed I've spoken to, whose job it was to photograph me and my associates, has been a pretty decent... An old roommate of mine was under 'clandestine' surveillance, walked up to the unmarked police car, took the picture of the occupants, and left a dozen donuts on the hood. He has a small problem with authority...  |
